You lose by attacking first

I have mentioned this in a previous post, but I have numbers to back up my experience.

I attacked a player and received 82,336 gold, 150,391 goods and 5460 steel.
I was later revenge attacked and lost 110,231 gold, 158,882 goods and 9142 steel.
By attacking first I lost more resources of each type. Most significantly I lost 3,682 steel, the hardest resource to collect.

I agree there should be some sort of revenge option, but it is pointless to keep attacking people only to go in reverse.
I will go back to only attacking npb's and revenging any attack on my base. It has slowed progress in my town and has pushed my entire posse out of the game.


  • AkselAksel Member Posts: 80
    In defense you loose a random percentage of your Goods, Gold and Steel (different for each).
    So if you have a lot of stuff when you are attacked odds are you will be loosing a lot.

    There is no difference between revenge attacks and 'normal' attacks.
    The formulas are the same.
    Only difference for you is that when you revenge you get back exactly what you have lost.

    You could argue that it should not be possible to loose more than what the attacker gains.
    The way it is now this happens a lot.
  • CrazyBurrisCrazyBurris Member Posts: 15
    That is exactly what I am arguing. It should not be possible to lose resources in an attack then revenged scenario, that is just idiotic. There is no way with the cost of building at my level, to clear my map then spend it all. I cannot collect enough from clearing to even get 1 upgrade in. So I attack several people getting the resources built up, log in the next day and those people all revenge me, and now I have less overall resources than I started with. That is insane!

    I would make a suggestion that: 1 you only get one shot at revenge (which many has suggested) 2: Have the amount that you can win back with revenge be locked at %50. That would include no matter how much resources you have, you could only lose back half of what you won from a battle. 3: Double the Steel for npb's.

    At this rate, the developers are gonna ruin what was once a great game. They must be able to see the decline in play.

    I have spend real money buying the special deals they have offered a few time, not a penny more from me (as if they will notice lol).
  • AkselAksel Member Posts: 80
    Again... what is won has no relation to what is lost - whatsoever - its completely random.
    The only exception to this is that in a revenge attack you regain your exact loss.
    But also here the one being attacked still loose a random amount of his stuff.

    So the only thing to deal with is how much you loose in an attack (revenge or not).
    I agree that it should be capped to how much you as a player is able to steal from another player.
    I dont see there is much more you can do - it will work in your favor when you dont have much to steal.
    I also agree that there should only be one try in revenge.

    What is your 'Get off my lawn' / 'Drillers revenge' ratio ?
    I defend successfully 9 out of 10 times so revenge is no problem for me.
    Its all about having the strongest defense for your level (and a decent layout of course).
    Never build or upgrade buildings you dont really need.
    All my collectors are low level and I have not build all camps, barns and banks.
    You need to only spend exp for defense.
  • CrazyBurrisCrazyBurris Member Posts: 15
    Aksel said:

    Again... what is won has no relation to what is lost - whatsoever - its completely random.
    The only exception to this is that in a revenge attack you regain your exact loss.
    But also here the one being attacked still loose a random amount of his stuff.

    I completely understand this, I also think this logic is insane because it leads to scenarios like I have outlined.
    This has chased all but 1 player in my posse from the game.

    I am successfully defending at a %44 rate (calculated by 'Get off my Lawn'/('Get off my Lawn'+'Driller's Revenge') which I believe is a decent average. I would think %50 would be the gold standard.

    I really don"t know how to say this more plainly. Any game like this, no matter what the situation, that allows you to lose by attacking first has it wrong.

    I enjoy this game, not trying to trash it, just wish right now revenge was never added. It has greatly diminished the fun my friends and I had been having.
  • Wingman300Wingman300 Member Posts: 222
    I raided someone for 5800 steel .... they revenged me and got 11000 steel..... I am quite positive this happened. I only pay attention to steel because I am maxed for goods and coin. Also there is never anyone on my map above 6k to steal from....

    They absolutely revenged me for more than I took.
  • CrazyBurrisCrazyBurris Member Posts: 15
    I swear I feel like I'm just beating my head on a wall.

    Again, let's say I attack 5 people. I beat every one on the first attack and I receive (for the sake of simplicity) 100k gold, 100k goods and 5000 steel from each attack. I now have added 500k gold, 500k goods and 25k steel. The 5 people I attacked all lost a random amount, I have no idea what this number is, but I do not care.

    Now, I wake up and log in the next day and all 5 have revenged me. Some have even taking 5,6,7,etc.... times to succesfully revenge me. The number of attacks does not matter, what matters is they succesfully revenged and received back their random amount they lost when I attacked. Again, I have no idea how much that was, I do no care!

    What I care about is what I randomly lost from their revenge. And when I check the numbers I have (randomly) lost an average of 110k gold, 105k goods and 8500 steel.

    Because I took the time to attack these 5 people I now have a net loss of -50k gold, -25k goods and -17,500 steel (which takes a lvl10 furnace 7 hours to recover).

    Now someone please explain to me how it is worth your time to attack when you could (randomly) lose more than you gain simply because you attack first???
  • AkselAksel Member Posts: 80
    44% is not good... neither is 50%... you should get to at least 70% to make it easier on yourself.
    They keep attacking you because your base is easier than others on your level.
    Very few bother to even try to revenge against me.

    It will take some time to turn that around and you need to watch how you 'spend' exp.

    Now... all the problems you list concerning revenge are exactly the same as if it was a normal attack.
    But of course you can revenge a normal attack :blush:

    Bottom line is that I agree with you.
    If you are not able to repel a decent number of (revenge) attacks the current formulas will be hard on your progress.
    And the very least we should expect is never to loose more than we are able to gain through normal attacks.
    I hope that West will address that.
  • CrazyBurrisCrazyBurris Member Posts: 15
    I assumed %44 was pretty good only because I have only failed 1 attack against another player in probably the last 6 months.
    I have failed to revenge a player only twice the first time. The first was a player in the top 50 of the leader boards. The second was because I did not see a booby trap hidden behind a tree. I backed out and then immediately attacked again easily defeating them. On top of that, I usually lose only about 10 minutes of medicine wagon time. The people attacking me lose between 30-45minutes worth. Since I would guess I fail less than %2 of the time, %44 defend rate sounded pretty good lol. I have stopped wasting xp on cabins and farms, all are either lvl8 or 9. My lowest level booby trap is 18 with 2 at 20. I have all 6 camps (5 lvl 17, 1 at 18) and lvl21 courthouse.
    I have no way of proving these stats, but it's just a game and I play it as such. I am 177xp from lvl40. My bounty level is 903.

    I think one other major gripe my friends had before they left was that they had busted their rear buying legendary forty miners at 1mil goods each then log in one day and they are 400k gold/goods. Seemed like they got robbed.

    I hope the developers read some of this because it seems there are some valid gripes and worthwhile ideas!
  • JnkZJnkZ Member Posts: 11
    Aksel, 9 of 10 success defend. 1 fail defend is from me? Lol
    My opinion is better remove this revenge option. Why? This pvp matchmaking is bad. You can revenge back soon, just wait pop in ur map. I already bored faced pretty same peoples lol...
  • AkselAksel Member Posts: 80
    Thats right JnkZ... you are one of the few people that have found a way through my defenses.
    That is also why I dont attack you anymore.

    Just remember, if you do come knocking I will swat you like a fly in the revenge :smiley:

    Lots of easy targets on our level anyway....
  • CrazyBurrisCrazyBurris Member Posts: 15
    I have started a list of everyone I attack and keeping track of who will revenge. My list is starting to get pretty long of those who never revenge. Pretty soon the list will be long enough I can just ask for new opponent once or twice and get one on the no-revenger list.
  • AkselAksel Member Posts: 80
    Always a good idea not to attack anyone you KNOW is able to beat you :wink:
  • AlphaAlpha Member Posts: 45
    edited March 2016
    If you want to attack someone who revenges, here are some recommendations:
    - Bundle them :)... meaning: wait until they appear two-three times on your map (this happens to me a lot since level 50) and attack all three back to back. They can only revenge once.
    - Better... if you can, spend your resources before you log out (I generally finish my gold by opening maps) so, he or she doesn't get much from you a lot.
  • TexanoTexano Member Posts: 19
    I lost 3 battels against refineries that took my towns even though I would have won except for the stupid clock. I lost for the lack of 1 second.
  • AlphaAlpha Member Posts: 45
    Texano said:

    stupid clock

    Everybody hates the clock!
  • shrobert79shrobert79 Member Posts: 183
    Very good read.
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