Don’t change scavenger stacking for raiders in 15.1

vicsark

Having scavenger perks stack on raiders is probably the best thing to happen while playing this game.
Also it’s the only way to actually be able to earn enough coins to do the 3 million plus coins for the  last upgrades of epic cards. 

Please don’t change it, and leave scavenger stacking work the way it does now.
Stop « fixing » what actually makes the game fun, rewarding and enjoyable.

From the 15.1 update notes: 
Fix for Scavenger talent. Multiple Scavenger talents on a line-up will now increase the chance of triggering. Previously, the talent was triggering individually per each Hero or Weapon

Ida

I totally agree with this. The joy of getting a good stack of coins when playing raiders is priceless. Please do keep the fun and don’t change the scavengers stacking. It also gives a bit of teasing amongst the team, every player posting its bests gains. 

Thank you. 

Asynja

If the update makes it increase the chance of triggering, that’s a good thing? I don’t understand the issue? 

Анунах

@Asynja
It doesn't increase if my math is correct. The overall chance of doubling will be absolutely the same, but previously multiple doubles could be triggered and that lead to the x4, x8, x16 or x32 with very low/extremely low chance. But still a chance. Now there will be only x2 at best. 

bou

I totally agree ! What is the point? 
Make the players leave?
Personally, i've been playing
from the start but if you keep 
ddoing anything i'll stop. You
will no longer see $1.
A good hearer

vicsark

Asynja said:

If the update makes it increase the chance of triggering, that’s a good thing? I don’t understand the issue? 

It rolls the dice for each scavenger card now, so  it might activate two times (x2x2=x4) or more sometimes if you use a scavenger team (obviously not often as it’s like a probability of 15% x 10% so 1.5% for example).
But that leads to big coins payouts, even more so when you have maxed blue (or pink) cards obviously.

With the change, it would add all the scavenger perks, and then roll the dice only once, so you would just have a higher doubling chance but no more.

Анунах

@vicsark
https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead-ow/discussion/44652/team-with-multiple-scavenger-or-contributor-talent-how-does-it-work#latest

I think they don't add chances, so it is still up to 5 dice rolls. But in case of a few triggered - they gonna be ignored and only the 1st will work. 

Asynja

vicsark said:

Asynja said:

If the update makes it increase the chance of triggering, that’s a good thing? I don’t understand the issue? 

It rolls the dice for each scavenger card now, so  it might activate two times (x2x2=x4) or more sometimes if you use a scavenger team (obviously not often as it’s like a probability of 15% x 10% so 1.5% for example).
But that leads to big coins payouts, even more so when you have maxed blue (or pink) cards obviously.

With the change, it would add all the scavenger perks, and then roll the dice only once, so you would just have a higher doubling chance but no more.

Thanks for explaining, I see your point now!

vicsark

Coz I’m a nerd, I actually calculated quickly the odds on excel.
Alpha/Glenn/Tara/Jesus/Morgan AR
Former average gain with stacking 84% and 65% without stacking
Without  Morgan AR 60% vs 50%
assuming they do add all the scavenger perks before they roll the dice.
You had a one in ~30000 chance to pull a x32 lol.
Not as big a difference as I expected, in the end it’s still worse.
and way way way less fun imho than having the possibility of having a jackpot here and there.

Анунах

We need @NG_Filipe input here 😄 do you add all chances as Vicsark described above? (If so, FAQ should be changed). 

Pain Walker

I mean not a math nerd but it now works same as contributor works so only once x2 once but the more people you have with contributor = higher chance + x2 weekend event buff will add to that chance. 

Hope they can add a 1.99 or 2.99 coin booster to double coins or something else to make coins. 

Still a good payout if you got maxed rates and epics but this fix makes coin farm for players with no maxed cards and epics really difficult. 

I am aware the FAQ post which was done year and a half ago was wrong because everyone knew that Contributor kept doubling so now the fix isn't surprising as it makes FAQ right  but we need more ways to make coins. 

NG_Filipe

Анунах said:

We need @NG_Filipe input here 😄 do you add all chances as Vicsark described above? (If so, FAQ should be changed). 

It's exactly as explained on the FAQ and with a good example there from fumpi1988:

without event:
0,85x0,85x0,9x0,9x0,9 -1 (best team and weapon with double coins)
~47,3% chance of double coins
so how does it looks like with the event? Instead of double the complete percentage, each separate percentage is doubled: 15% goes to 30%, so 0,85 goes to 0,7.
0,7x0,7x0,8x0,8x0,8 -1 (best double coin team and weapon with event)
~74,9% of double coins with event

Now, its an added chance as it should always have been. That means that you will have higher chances to trigger with Multiple Heroes or Weapon. 

Before the fix, you had a chance to activate per Hero or Weapon, so you would have lets say 15% chance, if trigger or not would double, and then would check the next hero with 10% chance, trigger or not, and so on.

Earlier the overall chance was lower since it was individually, eg. Coins x2 (x% chance) = Coins2 x2 (x% chance) = Coins4 x2 (x% chance), etc.

vicsark

NG_Filipe said:

Анунах said:

We need @NG_Filipe input here 😄 do you add all chances as Vicsark described above? (If so, FAQ should be changed). 

It's exactly as explained on the FAQ and with a good example there from fumpi1988:

without event:
0,85x0,85x0,9x0,9x0,9 -1 (best team and weapon with double coins)
~47,3% chance of double coins
so how does it looks like with the event? Instead of double the complete percentage, each separate percentage is doubled: 15% goes to 30%, so 0,85 goes to 0,7.
0,7x0,7x0,8x0,8x0,8 -1 (best double coin team and weapon with event)
~74,9% of double coins with event

Now, its an added chance as it should always have been. That means that you will have higher chances to trigger with Multiple Heroes or Weapon. 

Before the fix, you had a chance to activate per Hero or Weapon, so you would have lets say 15% chance, if trigger or not would double, and then would check the next hero with 10% chance, trigger or not, and so on.

Earlier the overall chance was lower since it was individually, eg. Coins x2 (x% chance) = Coins2 x2 (x% chance) = Coins4 x2 (x% chance), etc.

Basically now with the same scavenger team, we’ll have more doubles but no more x4 or x8+

If my calculations are correct, on average long term, it means a bit less coins bonus due to the fat tail of crazy coins x8 x16 which is not compensated by the extra doubles, but that’s not the whole point, the main issue is that the thrill will be lost. 

I understand scavenger stacking might not have been working as intended.
As unintended consequences, the thrill of sometimes getting a big coins jackpot was super motivational to farm raiders for a lot of players, high and mid level.

Those with non maxed cards getting sometimes 20k/40k+ coins on regular bases which means a lot for their upgrades.
Those with rare cards, up to sometimes 100k/200k on rare bases.
And with maxed epic it could go up to 200k/500k on epic bases Which is crazy helpful for those pesky 3m+ coins upgrades.

So I and a lot others would rather scavenger stacking stay the way it has been since the beginning.
It doesn’t feel like a fix but rather a nerf tbh of something that was super fun and that nobody asked to be changed afaik.

Fah_Q

The part that I don't understand...it has worked the same way for HOW long now? And it has just been discovered that it was "wrong" and therefore needed to be "fixed?"

I totally understand if something isn't working right and needs to be fixed. it just seems a little sketchy that this has worked the same way all this time, and now it has been discovered that it wasn't working as intended (just my feelings about it). My cards are getting to the point where one upgrade is expensive. It will just get more and more expensive. And I can't even imagine what it's like for players higher than me. I guess my main concern is, how are we supposed to stay interested and want to keep upgrading our cards when it could take ages to earn the coins just for one card? Infests already don't pay anything worthwhile. I don't even bother with a trading post anymore.

I think an overhaul of the coin rewards would be good. Especially making higher level missions pay out more. Talking to a teammate last night and she showed me what her coin rewards were on a lv32 raider base. It was shocking because I get the same amount and even more sometimes from a little baby lv18 base, and then I can go do a level 25 base and get less than I just did on a lower level one 😂
Make it make sense!

I just think a lot of players would be happy if we knew that higher missions meant better coin payout. I love this game, I love the people I play with, but I just think there needs to be some incentive...some way to make the coin payout relative to the mission level...since obviously those doing higher missions are the ones needing mega amounts for upgrades. 

Höckelebömmele

NG_Filipe said:

It's exactly as explained on the FAQ and with a good example there from fumpi1988:

without event:
0,85x0,85x0,9x0,9x0,9 -1 (best team and weapon with double coins)
~47,3% chance of double coins
so how does it looks like with the event? Instead of double the complete percentage, each separate percentage is doubled: 15% goes to 30%, so 0,85 goes to 0,7.
0,7x0,7x0,8x0,8x0,8 -1 (best double coin team and weapon with event)
~74,9% of double coins with event

Excuse me, but isn`t that false?

without event:

best team and weapon with double coins: 0,85 x 0,85 x 0,9 x 0,9 x 0,85

~50,3% chance of double coins

with event:

0,7 x 0,7 x 0,8 x 0,8 x 0,7

~78% chance of double coins with event.