First...I did not mean for it to sound harsh..I'm trying to understand your statement in relation to this and express how I feel too...the rest of us are not privy to the dialogue the gc has with NG so can only go off what you tell us...
Second...sorry you took offense...I am not, or ever will, question the time you have spent on this, or your motivation...I've lost many friends from this game too....
Third....your statement about being perfectly ok with a more realistic game, sounds like your saying the game, as it has been, with luck, is faulty in some way...it also sounded harsh to me even though you said it nicely
Fourth...I'm just commenting like everyone else...mostly I joke here...when I occasionally get serious it is not intended to offend.
Fifth...i don't really have a fifth...just trying to out do you but whatever...ill keep my opinion off this thread from now on
Thanks darling!! I didn't honestly think you were trying to offend me...I just get a lot of people questioning my or the GC's efforts and motives...and if those not privy saw what we were doing they would understand we're not doing this for "fun"...so I tend to get a bit defensive.
My point was not to say the game with Luck in it's current form is "faulty"...and yes bullet dodge is the most likely impetus for the possible Luck change is but it's not going anywhere...I just find that there is no logical reason to have 60% dodge
Who is more likely to burn out...the high level player running repeatables over and over because of 60% dodge or a new/mid level player...I personally would rather see friends like @spartan912 and @JVC_TWD (just examples guys lol) stick around than possibly burn out due to mind-numbing endless repetition
And like @Japes87 has said the ideal solution would be to only have the Luck change affect Outposts but nothing else...I just don't know how feasible this is...I understand coding more than most and don't see this happening...hope I'm wrong
You better check yo self before you wreck yo self...cuz I'm bad for your health, I come real stealth
I do think players have to look at the possible future nerf of the luck attribute, and other game balance changes from a broader perspective.
People who play long term games like this one are adaptive, intelligent creatures. If there is a imbalance in the game somewhere that gives the player an advantage, some players will find these imbalances and use them. Eventually, more and more players will find the imbalances and the game becomes more focused around the imbalance to the overall detriment to the game. OldGoth's comments about many, many players using "Luck/Dodge/Bullet Dodge" is an example of players finding a game imbalance, and more and more people gravitating to using these imbalances. Other earlier game imbalances included bruiser and hunter imbalances, the the problems with the silencing of pistols.
It's in the best interests of Next Games, and the player base in general, that these imbalances be prevented if possible. However.if an imbalance is created in the game, it's also in our collective best long term interests that these imbalances be rectified, so the game has the broadest long term enjoyment.
That said, I'd suggest that the council and Next Games consider the following plan to help rectify imbalances today and in the future:
1. Use a small group of trusted, long term players to give advance look at new features in the game before they are introduced, with the idea of preventing potential balance problems with new features before they are added to the game. 2. When imbalances are discovered that have already been introduced in the game, give all players as much advance knowledge that these game imbalances will be corrected with future updates. As soon as possible, give players specificity on how the imbalance will be fixed and when they will be fixed. 3. If it all possible, phase in any balance changes. For example, Next Games could remove luck from all reward weapons now, to prevent the double luck stacking of player and weapon attributes in the future. This way this balance change can slowly occur over time. And players will not immediately lose any investment in existing survivors or any existing gear.
We have to allow Next Games to fix game imbalances, and some of those changes are invariably going to adversely affect players. There are ways, however, to minimize these adverse affects to players and minimize player dissatisfaction with changes necessary to correct imbalances. Advance knowledge and phasing in balance changes will help.
@nadecir, I agree with most of what you stated. I would add, that any changes in the game should be made in the announcement section of the game. Not here in the forums, FB, or Twitter. It should be easily accessible to all and transparent. Otherwise, it looks like they are trying to hide something whether this was their intention or not.
I personally Also freaked out after hearing About THE luck nerf... But if iT is implemented in months time ill have enough time to replace THE weapons i have now with ones with out luck. Ill neef new weapons than anyways....
Looking for a guild? The Den is the place to be! We bring the fun back! Game Tips and Videos! Common interest non-game related chats too! Everyone is Welcome!
Grimes Den & Dixons Den: competitive / different play styles Shivas Den: semi-competitive / relaxed Maggies Den: training and growth
Lmao please don't try and reason with me...my family would be the first to tell you it's a folly...besides, my tantrums are truly great works of art, and should be encouraged and embraced...
I have an issue with NG nerfing my stuff...like my earned gas when I'm on a booster...it's my stuff!!! I bought said stuff to play with...it's like when I'm a kid and my brother steals one of my toys...I'm gonna cry till someone makes me feel better...some new free toys from NG would make me feel better...js
I do like the idea from @nadecir about phasing in changes to avoid hurting existing player investment...
Wait...now I'm sounding like I can be reasoned with
Looking for a guild? The Den is the place to be! We bring the fun back! Game Tips and Videos! Common interest non-game related chats too! Everyone is Welcome!
Grimes Den & Dixons Den: competitive / different play styles Shivas Den: semi-competitive / relaxed Maggies Den: training and growth
From @nadecir 's post: "For example, Next Games could remove luck from all reward weapons now, to prevent the double luck stacking of player and weapon attributes in the future."
I really hope they don't do this. What about survivors that don't have the luck trait? I thought I read a mod's post somewhere that said the plan was to use either the survivor's luck trait OR the weapon's, whichever is highest. That would be the fairest way to do it, if there is such a thing as a fair way to retroactively damage so many players' games.
@nadecir
Hey, first time around the thread. First, to get it out there, I play the game differently, I don't seek stars for stars' sake or engage in pvp in this game. I dabble. I was quite open to outposts but a visit to the threads kept me from pushing that button and I haven't seen anything to encourage me since.
Why go into this? Well, perspective is everything. Since the discussion has gone to game balancing, I've heard a lot. And you brought up bruisers. My play style is: I have 3 of each class. More than that now with Heroes added in. I like changing things up, and finding a use for each class. Since I'm not chasing stars, I have that luxury. I haven't spent the time maximizing luck/dodge/bullet dodge. I'm aware of the benefits, but have a lot more to do in game than obsess over it, because of my perspective.
Yet still I'm against brutally nerfing luck/dodge/bullet dodge. Why would that be? Well, since the bruiser "problem" has been "fixed" they have ever after been useless. Sure, I level them up and take them for a spin once in a while, but really, come on. It's entirely stubbornness on my part. I can farm or run a near-level story mission with them, but I can with any class. The excitement comes with challenging the game and they have no place there. My point: if every answer to a problem is the nerf hammer, things get left behind. Adjust up, make other viable strategies, make minor decreases, whatever. There are other reasons beside self-interest in a buffed team of legendaries to ask for a different solution.
The point is, luck has been a major part of the game since the beginning...NG has happily encouraged us to embrace it, by continuously and aggressively, offering bundles containing gear with luck, or gear that is complimented by luck....so, the others of us that spend $, and play differently to you, have been, by NG own admittance (their job ad), guided and steared in that direction...they have intentionally guided us towards building our game based on luck. Now because of an issue with balance in a part of the game I (like you with your choices) choose not to embrace, they suddenly want to nerf the part of the game they coerced (their own word) me into spending a substantial amount of $ on....they have benefited from our spending, allowing them the pay-to-play player base they needed to have in order to further develop the game, and yet now they slap us in the face by acting like this is no big deal and we just have to bite, chew, swallow, repeat ......
@tammy, yes I totally get that. In part I was replying to a post about perspective, and that was why I spent the thumb typing time to explain my playstyle. I have the same opposition as you, but for different reasons, and with much less skin in the game, so to speak. Also, I understand that guild oriented play is much different in perspective anyway. It has to do with attractiveness of the style. If I came to this game with a network of friends or developed one through the game, my perspective would be different as I would be motivated to not let guildmates down. The basic appeal of that playstyle is not there, as challenge rewards have been meh from the beginning. So why post? Because it's a different perspective, and lets people know an underrepresented (I would assume, in a guild council) viewpoint has arrived at the same conclusion through an entirely different route. And that although I will be affected only incidentally and marginally by the change, I with you and speaking up.
I know...I get it...it's just all so freaking messed up...I wanna kill my zombies the best I can
Or..like I suggested, and @OldGoth agreed it was an interesting idea, let meeeee be a zombie!!! Give us a choice of survivor or zombie....extra bite and scratch traits...fire zombies...explosive sauna zombies...
Er, no. That would be Warm Bodies: The Game. And I get to be Rob Corddry--dibs @tammy.
The TWD universe is all about not walking that road until the bitter end. There's no development path there.
@tammy and everyone else re. The possible luck change on the horizon , Rick , myself , Jester et al. All have individual opinions on this game , what we like and don't , what we think should be added or taken away .. but when it comes to guild council business , we represent what the majority of guilds in the council would like . Our personal thoughts get set aside or this thing can't work. Many are concerned about the luck thing just like you guys and here's a little snippet from the conversation with NG to show you. All we can do is discuss and make requests , but everything we do has the communities best wishes in mind . I can vouch that SlickRick is the same as all of us in that
@Japes87 Thanks for the update. This is digressing a bit from the main point, but I saw you mention it so I wanted to comment: I don't think it stacks with threat reduction. My Scout has 30% luck and gold (50%) threat reduction, yet in a few dozen missions (small sample size, I know), it seems like it's only working every other kill.
Elder in Legacy Eh, a top 10 global Challenge and Guild Wars guild PM me or visit this link to join the Eh family! Visit this link for my Distance and Challenge strategy videos
Thanks again for all of the support shown here by many guilds and players...we greatly appreciate it and feel things are progressing in a good direction!!
Here is an updated list of the guilds supporting this endeavor...thanks again to all of you: Asylum (20 players) Blackjack n Beef (20 players) Breaking Deads (3 guilds/60 players) Carols Elite (2 guilds/40 players) Conquer (4 guilds/80 players) DeadFamily (3 guilds/60 players) DeadStalkers (4 guilds/79 players) Defiance (6 guilds/115 players) DTP (5 guilds/102 players) DMZ (20 players) Erebus (20 players) Erebus2 (20 players) FearTheCrew (20 players) FearTheDead (20 players) Forsaken (3 guilds/60 players) French Squad (3 guilds/57 players) Funny Farm (20 players) German Fighters (3 guilds/50 players) Glennstilllives (20 players) Global Amazing (20 players) GOA (2 guilds/30 players) Greek Hunters (20 players) Jellybeanz (20 players) Legionaiires (2 guilds/34 players) Lucilles Fury (20 players) Lucilles Wrath (20 players) No Surrender (20 players) PNW Survivors (20 players) Retribution (2 guilds/35 players) RickRollers (3 guilds/70 players) Sisters of Carol (20 players) Sisters of Daryl (20 players) Sisters of Negan (20 players) The Cure Family (4 guilds/70 players) The Eh Family (7 guilds/125 players) The Funny Farm (20 players) The Lost Slayers (2 guilds/40 players) The One Force (2 guilds/28 players) The Watch Tower (14 guilds/270 players) TWD Team Up (20 players) Ultima Legione (6 guilds/120 players) Whiskey Bandits (20 players) Zombie AAA Slay (18 players) ZombieBreath (20 players) Zombie Bruisers (20 players) Zombie420 (20 players)
You better check yo self before you wreck yo self...cuz I'm bad for your health, I come real stealth
I'm concerned that being able to play the exploration missions for XPs will b changed. I really haven't seen it mentioned unless the "lower level miision grinds" is what u mean. My players r level 15 & 16 and now is when all the upgrades for them and their weapons r up to 500k. Without those side missions on my current episode (and the lower one) my upgrading would come to a screeching halt. My little guild only gets to 600 stars so TGs aren't a lot. Luck is a fantastic trait that I love but isn't my biggest worry. I'm just starting serious upgrades to armour now that my weapons r as good as I'll get and need for awhile.
Guild Council please remember what its like working up to level 19 without opening your wallet and looking forward to the surprise of opening that next mission that you know nothing about.
Put in a good word for us and what we need, we would really appreciate it.
Thank you to all of you for working on making the game better and also passing on tips to those of us that r still learning
@soggybottoms I think they will be making some changes to the side missions, but they will not be removed. They will be restructured in some way (rewards. etc,- I hope they also mean content). For sure they need some change. I am so bored with them after 6 months without a change that I don't even bother doing them anymore even though I need to grind to upgrade my survivors to lvl 19(840k+ xp), and I need to upgrade some gear from 17 to 20 (don't even want to think about the cost).
Low level mission grind refers to the challenges resetting to level 3 each week.
@GuildCouncil
A little over a month ago many guilds & independent players banded together & closed our wallets in support for what you are trying to do to help steer the direction of the game & prioritize the updates. (Many thanks!)
How's the spending going? Are ppl who are supporting your efforts still not buying phones & bundles, etc? (I guess I'm asking cause I forsee tomorrow's temptation lurking on the horizon)
@nadecir, I agree with most of what you stated. I would add, that any changes in the game should be made in the announcement section of the game. Not here in the forums, FB, or Twitter. It should be easily accessible to all and transparent. Otherwise, it looks like they are trying to hide something whether this was their intention or not.
Definitely a good idea, yet players still post in the forums with questions already answered 3 times in the Announcements section, another 98 times in the General section, and 155 more times in various other sections of the forums. lol
* I put "hero" and "heroes" in quotes for a reason. ** Still on a spending boycott of equipment and gas booster and gold.
@theRealBender, you are correct sir. Also, I should clarify that the announcement section that I was referring to wasn't in the forum, but rather the news tab in game.
Yes we're still on a spending freeze for all larger purchases until we see some of the changes in action...obviously we can't control or know what everyone is doing but the vast majority of members realize doing this is for the greater good
If anything changes on this front we'll let everyone know asap
You better check yo self before you wreck yo self...cuz I'm bad for your health, I come real stealth
Comments
First...I did not mean for it to sound harsh..I'm trying to understand your statement in relation to this and express how I feel too...the rest of us are not privy to the dialogue the gc has with NG so can only go off what you tell us...
Second...sorry you took offense...I am not, or ever will, question the time you have spent on this, or your motivation...I've lost many friends from this game too....
Third....your statement about being perfectly ok with a more realistic game, sounds like your saying the game, as it has been, with luck, is faulty in some way...it also sounded harsh to me even though you said it nicely
Fourth...I'm just commenting like everyone else...mostly I joke here...when I occasionally get serious it is not intended to offend.
Fifth...i don't really have a fifth...just trying to out do you
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
The your opinions are of value...
xxxoooxxx
Any guess who might " now " be on my list, ( in 2017 )
Thanks darling!! I didn't honestly think you were trying to offend me...I just get a lot of people questioning my or the GC's efforts and motives...and if those not privy saw what we were doing they would understand we're not doing this for "fun"...so I tend to get a bit defensive.
My point was not to say the game with Luck in it's current form is "faulty"...and yes bullet dodge is the most likely impetus for the possible Luck change is but it's not going anywhere...I just find that there is no logical reason to have 60% dodge
Who is more likely to burn out...the high level player running repeatables over and over because of 60% dodge or a new/mid level player...I personally would rather see friends like @spartan912 and @JVC_TWD (just examples guys lol) stick around than possibly burn out due to mind-numbing endless repetition
And like @Japes87 has said the ideal solution would be to only have the Luck change affect Outposts but nothing else...I just don't know how feasible this is...I understand coding more than most and don't see this happening...hope I'm wrong
People who play long term games like this one are adaptive, intelligent creatures. If there is a imbalance in the game somewhere that gives the player an advantage, some players will find these imbalances and use them. Eventually, more and more players will find the imbalances and the game becomes more focused around the imbalance to the overall detriment to the game. OldGoth's comments about many, many players using "Luck/Dodge/Bullet Dodge" is an example of players finding a game imbalance, and more and more people gravitating to using these imbalances. Other earlier game imbalances included bruiser and hunter imbalances, the the problems with the silencing of pistols.
It's in the best interests of Next Games, and the player base in general, that these imbalances be prevented if possible. However.if an imbalance is created in the game, it's also in our collective best long term interests that these imbalances be rectified, so the game has the broadest long term enjoyment.
That said, I'd suggest that the council and Next Games consider the following plan to help rectify imbalances today and in the future:
1. Use a small group of trusted, long term players to give advance look at new features in the game before they are introduced, with the idea of preventing potential balance problems with new features before they are added to the game.
2. When imbalances are discovered that have already been introduced in the game, give all players as much advance knowledge that these game imbalances will be corrected with future updates. As soon as possible, give players specificity on how the imbalance will be fixed and when they will be fixed.
3. If it all possible, phase in any balance changes. For example, Next Games could remove luck from all reward weapons now, to prevent the double luck stacking of player and weapon attributes in the future. This way this balance change can slowly occur over time. And players will not immediately lose any investment in existing survivors or any existing gear.
We have to allow Next Games to fix game imbalances, and some of those changes are invariably going to adversely affect players. There are ways, however, to minimize these adverse affects to players and minimize player dissatisfaction with changes necessary to correct imbalances. Advance knowledge and phasing in balance changes will help.
We bring the fun back! Game Tips and Videos! Common interest non-game related chats too!
Everyone is Welcome!
Grimes Den & Dixons Den: competitive / different play styles
Shivas Den: semi-competitive / relaxed Maggies Den: training and growth
Email us to make our home your home: [email protected]
Lmao please don't try and reason with me...my family would be the first to tell you it's a folly...besides, my tantrums are truly great works of art, and should be encouraged and embraced...
I have an issue with NG nerfing my stuff...like my earned gas when I'm on a booster...it's my stuff!!! I bought said stuff to play with...it's like when I'm a kid and my brother steals one of my toys...I'm gonna cry till someone makes me feel better...some new free toys from NG would make me feel better...js
I do like the idea from @nadecir about phasing in changes to avoid hurting existing player investment...
Wait...now I'm sounding like I can be reasoned with
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
We bring the fun back! Game Tips and Videos! Common interest non-game related chats too!
Everyone is Welcome!
Grimes Den & Dixons Den: competitive / different play styles
Shivas Den: semi-competitive / relaxed Maggies Den: training and growth
Email us to make our home your home: [email protected]
I really hope they don't do this. What about survivors that don't have the luck trait? I thought I read a mod's post somewhere that said the plan was to use either the survivor's luck trait OR the weapon's, whichever is highest. That would be the fairest way to do it, if there is such a thing as a fair way to retroactively damage so many players' games.
Hey, first time around the thread. First, to get it out there, I play the game differently, I don't seek stars for stars' sake or engage in pvp in this game. I dabble. I was quite open to outposts but a visit to the threads kept me from pushing that button and I haven't seen anything to encourage me since.
Why go into this? Well, perspective is everything. Since the discussion has gone to game balancing, I've heard a lot. And you brought up bruisers. My play style is: I have 3 of each class. More than that now with Heroes added in. I like changing things up, and finding a use for each class. Since I'm not chasing stars, I have that luxury. I haven't spent the time maximizing luck/dodge/bullet dodge. I'm aware of the benefits, but have a lot more to do in game than obsess over it, because of my perspective.
Yet still I'm against brutally nerfing luck/dodge/bullet dodge. Why would that be? Well, since the bruiser "problem" has been "fixed" they have ever after been useless. Sure, I level them up and take them for a spin once in a while, but really, come on. It's entirely stubbornness on my part. I can farm or run a near-level story mission with them, but I can with any class. The excitement comes with challenging the game and they have no place there. My point: if every answer to a problem is the nerf hammer, things get left behind. Adjust up, make other viable strategies, make minor decreases, whatever. There are other reasons beside self-interest in a buffed team of legendaries to ask for a different solution.
The point is, luck has been a major part of the game since the beginning...NG has happily encouraged us to embrace it, by continuously and aggressively, offering bundles containing gear with luck, or gear that is complimented by luck....so, the others of us that spend $, and play differently to you, have been, by NG own admittance (their job ad), guided and steared in that direction...they have intentionally guided us towards building our game based on luck. Now because of an issue with balance in a part of the game I (like you with your choices) choose not to embrace, they suddenly want to nerf the part of the game they coerced (their own word) me into spending a substantial amount of $ on....they have benefited from our spending, allowing them the pay-to-play player base they needed to have in order to further develop the game, and yet now they slap us in the face by acting like this is no big deal and we just have to bite, chew, swallow, repeat ......
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
I know...I get it...it's just all so freaking messed up...I wanna kill my zombies the best I can
Or..like I suggested, and @OldGoth agreed it was an interesting idea, let meeeee be a zombie!!! Give us a choice of survivor or zombie....extra bite and scratch traits...fire zombies...explosive sauna zombies...
A new toy like that would make me happy again
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
The TWD universe is all about not walking that road until the bitter end. There's no development path there.
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
PM me or visit this link to join the Eh family!
Visit this link for my Distance and Challenge strategy videos
Here is an updated list of the guilds supporting this endeavor...thanks again to all of you:
Asylum (20 players)
Blackjack n Beef (20 players)
Breaking Deads (3 guilds/60 players)
Carols Elite (2 guilds/40 players)
Conquer (4 guilds/80 players)
DeadFamily (3 guilds/60 players)
DeadStalkers (4 guilds/79 players)
Defiance (6 guilds/115 players)
DTP (5 guilds/102 players)
DMZ (20 players)
Erebus (20 players)
Erebus2 (20 players)
FearTheCrew (20 players)
FearTheDead (20 players)
Forsaken (3 guilds/60 players)
French Squad (3 guilds/57 players)
Funny Farm (20 players)
German Fighters (3 guilds/50 players)
Glennstilllives (20 players)
Global Amazing (20 players)
GOA (2 guilds/30 players)
Greek Hunters (20 players)
Jellybeanz (20 players)
Legionaiires (2 guilds/34 players)
Lucilles Fury (20 players)
Lucilles Wrath (20 players)
No Surrender (20 players)
PNW Survivors (20 players)
Retribution (2 guilds/35 players)
RickRollers (3 guilds/70 players)
Sisters of Carol (20 players)
Sisters of Daryl (20 players)
Sisters of Negan (20 players)
The Cure Family (4 guilds/70 players)
The Eh Family (7 guilds/125 players)
The Funny Farm (20 players)
The Lost Slayers (2 guilds/40 players)
The One Force (2 guilds/28 players)
The Watch Tower (14 guilds/270 players)
TWD Team Up (20 players)
Ultima Legione (6 guilds/120 players)
Whiskey Bandits (20 players)
Zombie AAA Slay (18 players)
ZombieBreath (20 players)
Zombie Bruisers (20 players)
Zombie420 (20 players)
Guild Council please remember what its like working up to level 19 without opening your wallet and looking forward to the surprise of opening that next mission that you know nothing about.
Put in a good word for us and what we need, we would really appreciate it.
Thank you to all of you for working on making the game better and also passing on tips to those of us that r still learning
Low level mission grind refers to the challenges resetting to level 3 each week.
It did cost me $7.99 but worth it. Will be taking him with me on a lot of rides.
Check out the DMZ guild. We're recruiting. Here.
Check out the DMZ guild. We're recruiting. Here.
A little over a month ago many guilds & independent players banded together & closed our wallets in support for what you are trying to do to help steer the direction of the game & prioritize the updates. (Many thanks!)
How's the spending going? Are ppl who are supporting your efforts still not buying phones & bundles, etc? (I guess I'm asking cause I forsee tomorrow's temptation lurking on the horizon)
Definitely a good idea, yet players still post in the forums with questions already answered 3 times in the Announcements section, another 98 times in the General section, and 155 more times in various other sections of the forums. lol
** Still on a spending boycott of equipment and gas booster and gold.
Spending freeze? (See above)
Yes we're still on a spending freeze for all larger purchases until we see some of the changes in action...obviously we can't control or know what everyone is doing but the vast majority of members realize doing this is for the greater good
If anything changes on this front we'll let everyone know asap
I just want to do all that I can to support your efforts.
** Still on a spending boycott of equipment and gas booster and gold.