We are on to you,.. Grab your nerfed weapons,. Pack a bag and run,.. We're coming for the moles!!!
It is the new part of the game, trying to figure out the mole. (Spoiler: One prime suspect in your guild will be the one who says each change "improves the gameplay" )
@Shteevie that may be true it may not but ask any other player that isn't paid by ng that competes hard in challenge and has an understanding of traits specifically INTERUPT if they like the new interupt and there you will find the truth.
I do apologize if this isn't constructive as i just checked my inbox and I'm on the verge of getting kicked from the forum
You and anyone who disagrees with NG at the moment,... It's hard to be positive about such negative nerfs,.. It's even harder not to sound like a broken record when you feel like your being ignored or just not listened to,.. Tends to make people shout louder to be heard mate
You took the only strategy.. I've questions about whats the new strategies? There is none interrupt and pierce on the same weapon.. Except 20/30% of the time, there is no new strategy its the SAME ONE just 20%30% of the time. Ridiculous you "fixed" something that wasn't broke lol
Sad yes, funny or ironic, no. I love funny and ironic, I'd be all over it. Not slamming the GC for their part, looks like a lot of work on their part to have the rug snatched from under them.
yeah, I guess I have a twisted sense of humor. devs are usually very receptive to criticism and suggestions from their player base (as a fellow dev I know I am), I don't know what went wrong with the GC and NG because to me this 2.2 is a bigger fiasco than the previous updates. and we had them both "working together". this is where I find the whole business ironic. if they haven't been working together would it be even worse?
We are being heard and answered. Every time they decide we're playing their game better than they wanted us to, they nerf traits and kill our strategy in the name of balancing. In response, we say "we loved this game and WANT to give you our time and/or money if you'll please just stop messing with it. Can we please have the trait(s) back we spent a year developing for our perfect teams?" Without any hesitation or pause to even consider our request, they answer "no. That's not going to happen." They are loud, clear, and unequivocal. But since I'm still playing, I'm exactly the fool they think I am.
Because their response to the last strike was to nerf luck, dodge, and eliminate interrupt, I'm not sure what this one will accomplish. But I haven't purchased boosters since the update and don't plan to.
Regretfully, The Fool
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
According to the Consumerist article, here is our role in the problem:
So after thirty years of disgruntlement, why are things so slow to change? The reality is, we the consumers kind of suck too. And in a way, we’re part of the problem. The math is easy on this one: the number of people who don’t know or don’t care about these issues and are willing to continue buying and playing by game publishers’ rules continues to be larger than the number of those who object to anti-consumer practices and want to see change. In other words, the status quo sells a ton of games and makes a ton of money, and that means businesses have no incentive to spend any resources (time or money) doing things differently. Everyone who likes Assassin’s Creed probably hates Ubisoft’s Uplay, but this hasn’t stopped Assassin’s Creed games from being bestsellers. Everyone hates dealing with Steam’s customer service, but so many Steam users fall all over themselves for the sales. Everyone knows that new releases are buggy, but we still pre-order games. “Everyone” sure seems to hate a lot of things that game companies do, but these companies don’t see any quantifiable financial penalty for doing them. Consumers, overall, have adapted to incremental nickel-and-diming, having their old toys taken away, and DRM-related hand-tying. Players are so used to it, in fact, that even a basic feature like backwards compatibility — just this week finally announced for the Xbox One — is applauded and lauded as a huge step forward.
Additionally, a small but loud percentage of nominal fans who don’t get their way can be… hostile. Really, really hostile. Not just your ordinary level of angry rants on game forums or reddit, but to the point of hacking networks or calling in bomb threats on company executives they don’t like. Say something the mob doesn’t like, and your actual life might be in danger. And basically, they ruin it for everyone: after a point, the signal to noise ratio gets so far off, or the internet cries wolf so many times, that it can be easy to tune out even legitimate critical feedback as hyperbole and nonsense — to the detriment of all.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
So @javajnkie to summarise: You didtrust Next so much that you believe they are out to hurt and work against their players as much as possible.
Next claims the opposite for themselves.
So it comes down to trust. If this is lacking so much. Maybe it's time to just walk away for a month or two and then come back to see what has changed. If anything. Changing anything takes a long development process. I see no benefit in bashing a company over it.
In fact, it is so lacking in constructive quality and comes so darn close to flaming that i see grounds for modding. But at the same time you try to make an actual argument. And you even try to back out up by leaning on external authority. I can't resist responding this time.
Going forward i wish to see less witch hunt style developer bashing. It is unfair, unkind, uncalled for, detrimental to the forum, against the rules. My post is not an invitation to a discussion about, but a one off reply to developer bashing.
What i do wish to see is continued mature on topic discussion of the game and its weaknesses and streangth. From any viewpoint without making it personal!
You quote an article that has virtually no bearing at all.
The article talks of "large-scale makers and sellers of video game" (think EA, Microsoft) with three problems: "distance, fear, and money".
Distance: no personal contact. Anyone that argues this for Next has been living under a rock.
Fear: of copyright piracy. Totally not applicable here.
Money: big games are shipped unfinished prior to hilidays (for instance) in order to not miss the boat for the big sales because they are "are all publicly traded companies. They have quarterly reports and earnings calls, and in each of those calls they are expected to show growth over the past quarter and over the past year. Not showing growth has a way of really irking stockholders". This is not even talking about live games like NML.
So while the title of the article does cater to your gut feeling the content is nowhere near applicable.
Next does in fact communicate a lot, does in fact have real human support, does in fact not fear piracy, is in fact not a big conglomerate needing to grab cash for stock ratings.
But wait! There is one part of the article that actually does perfectly fit! Here it is:
"Enthusiastic fans of a game will occasionally lament a change to the game by complaining bitterly that the developer is only in it for the money. But of course, that’s true: video games are a business, and while honest developers and publishers want to make their money by making good art, profit is still the real name of the game. And that’s fair!"
Again: the bashing and flaming stops here. The ontopic constructive discussion from both positive, neutral and negative viewponts is very welcome continue here.
OH, and food for thought...this is a forum where we are/were invited to discuss the game...if @javajnkie has a point to make, no matter how she/he presents it, it should not be trashed by the mods/devs or any other representative of NG ...otherwise, what is the point of inviting conversation?
@tammy IMO there was no trashing in MadPuppy's comment. If "mods/devs/any other representatives of NG" aren't allowed to bring up their views then that completely defeats the purpose you're defending - discussion.
@Teeceezy I found the general tone of his post to be distasteful and disdainful so much that I felt the need to disagree even when he was making some valid points...he did seem to be overly trashing @javajnkie post...even if what he said wasn't personal it certainly didn't seem respectful...and then he said his post was not an invitation to discussion...so how is he helping discussion here...it seemed more like a mod rant
@SgtSalami Thanks for pointing out unclarity. I edited that sentence. What I meant was a discussion about developer bashing. It was a big post typed on my phone due to my laptop being broken. It's hard editing on five inches of glass. If you look at my last sentence (not edited) I explicitly invite to constructive on topic duscussion about the game.
I have stayed out of this entirely but I will just add my two pennies. I'm not liked on the forums by the mods because I call out the blatantly obvious and they say it's not constructive and the cycle repeats.
I am the leader of TWD UK Carl. We are 3rd in the UK Currently and 20 something in the US I believe. We have 20 players, no plans for a second guild at all. Please add us to your list.
Generally I agree with the GC's goals but I will say this. Everything boils down to one thing. Listening. NG seem unable to grasp it. There's a 'we know better than you' attitude and frankly, they don't, at all.
There's a perfect example on the previous page, someone makes a point, the member of staff says 'take my word for it'. That's not listening. That's stfu I've dealt with it, you have to accept it. The world doesn't work that way. The proof is in the pudding. If you say it's so then the game will show it, they'll be no need for the complaint, no need for the reply, it simply wouldn't exist. There is a problem, until you own that and pick it up and actually deal with it there will still be a problem. You're making a choice, if you know it or not.
I brought up ICELs and got crapped all over. The point being it was a great part of the game. The mods or staff said they had dismissed it and replaced it with 'better ideas'. Where?! What better idea? This weekends event is simply awful. I can't remember a better event in the last six months apart from the one day where 15 calls were reduced to the price of 10. 'Better ideas' simply don't exist if every over person is complaining about the same thing. As a side point I haven't pulled a legendary survivor in six months. At one point I'd saved 1600 phones. It's been nerfed to death. Denying it is ridiculous. Look at my account for proof. As above. Complaint, answer, no proof in the game.
That is the point. Anything can be said. You don't show it. Listen. Produce.
@stuffnthangs other approaches were tried and failed to produce results...I know NG was speaking privately to leaders of top guilds in the past before the advent of the GC...and then there was the failed attempt at player beta testing for outposts...this was/is the last resort for many people...
@stuffnthangs just in response to your post , the GC has spent the last 3 months presenting arguments with tact and providing feedback and suggestions to NG directly in the chat with them .. if that method worked or led to a less brutal and acceptable 2.2 update , this thread might have just faded away .. the chat is still open and hopefully it can become fruitful , but the GC never had any intention of placing a gun to NG's head in any way.
As we have said all along to anyone who has insinuated what you just did, before you make assumptions and question the Council's motives , come join the chat and represent your guild. Every decision we make in there is reached democratically . You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone , but you should be sure before you cast a stone.
@stuffnthangs from my involvement in the GC over the past month or so, and the discussions I have participated in the GC line group...my opinion is the exact opposite of yours...I see them working very hard to discuss things with NG and fix the game (as they had for months), and then being undermined by the people who they were trying to help improve the game (NG)with a very flawed update, which included many things that were never even mentioned in the discussions (probably because they were a great big ball of bad)...I believe the only reason this line of dialogue was opened was because of the spending strike and there was a genuine attempt at real dialogue over the last 3 months after the spending freeze was lifted in good faith to attempt to develop a real relationship between the players and NG...and I see no one, who is trying to "hijack" the group and claim to speak for all players...it seems that the people who believe this always decline the invitation to join and be a part of the discussion, but hey feel free to come up with a better solution...and people do vote on decisions but for sure there are differences of opinions...and surely you are casting stones here my good sir : )...
@MadPuppy I reread my post and hunted for the flaming you saw. I couldn't find it, but apologize it came across that way. It wasn't my intent.
My initial point was simply this: we ask the things we pay for to not be made obsolete at every update, and at times people have requested some changes be reversed, The response has been swift, loud, and clear: "that's not going to happen." So I'm not sure what good a strike has done or will do.
The link to the Consumerist article wasn't posted to equate the size of NG or the mobile platforms to EA, Microsoft, and pc & console gaming. But I felt the conclusions could be extrapolated to mobile platforms and smaller game producers. For example, instead of rushing an update out in time for Christmas, the development schedule runs parallel to TV broadcast timelines. More importantly, the conclusions I posted about the development being driven by money, the signal to noise by vocal players drowning out valid issues, etc, aren't limited to large conglomerates.
Although I've been on the forums since November '15, I don't post often because my posts make mods or staff angry and it's not worth the drama to me. My communication skills must be degrading, because I don't see flaming where they do. The bottom line is that I just want to keep playing the game I love with the friends I've made here, and wish NG would stop nerfing so many traits I've worked so long and spent real money on to perfect. And I wish they'd stop dismissing our issues with those nerfs offhand.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
Comments
It's even harder not to sound like a broken record when you feel like your being ignored or just not listened to,.. Tends to make people shout louder to be heard mate
devs are usually very receptive to criticism and suggestions from their player base (as a fellow dev I know I am), I don't know what went wrong with the GC and NG because to me this 2.2 is a bigger fiasco than the previous updates. and we had them both "working together". this is where I find the whole business ironic. if they haven't been working together would it be even worse?
But since I'm still playing, I'm exactly the fool they think I am.
Because their response to the last strike was to nerf luck, dodge, and eliminate interrupt, I'm not sure what this one will accomplish. But I haven't purchased boosters since the update and don't plan to.
Regretfully,
The Fool
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
So after thirty years of disgruntlement, why are things so slow to change?
The reality is, we the consumers kind of suck too. And in a way, we’re part of the problem.
The math is easy on this one: the number of people who don’t know or don’t care about these issues and are willing to continue buying and playing by game publishers’ rules continues to be larger than the number of those who object to anti-consumer practices and want to see change.
In other words, the status quo sells a ton of games and makes a ton of money, and that means businesses have no incentive to spend any resources (time or money) doing things differently.
Everyone who likes Assassin’s Creed probably hates Ubisoft’s Uplay, but this hasn’t stopped Assassin’s Creed games from being bestsellers.
Everyone hates dealing with Steam’s customer service, but so many Steam users fall all over themselves for the sales.
Everyone knows that new releases are buggy, but we still pre-order games.
“Everyone” sure seems to hate a lot of things that game companies do, but these companies don’t see any quantifiable financial penalty for doing them.
Consumers, overall, have adapted to incremental nickel-and-diming, having their old toys taken away, and DRM-related hand-tying. Players are so used to it, in fact, that even a basic feature like backwards compatibility — just this week finally announced for the Xbox One — is applauded and lauded as a huge step forward.
Additionally, a small but loud percentage of nominal fans who don’t get their way can be… hostile. Really, really hostile. Not just your ordinary level of angry rants on game forums or reddit, but to the point of hacking networks or calling in bomb threats on company executives they don’t like. Say something the mob doesn’t like, and your actual life might be in danger. And basically, they ruin it for everyone: after a point, the signal to noise ratio gets so far off, or the internet cries wolf so many times, that it can be easy to tune out even legitimate critical feedback as hyperbole and nonsense — to the detriment of all.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!
I really liked your posts today. Thanks for sharing those with us
You didtrust Next so much that you believe they are out to hurt and work against their players as much as possible.
Next claims the opposite for themselves.
So it comes down to trust. If this is lacking so much. Maybe it's time to just walk away for a month or two and then come back to see what has changed. If anything. Changing anything takes a long development process. I see no benefit in bashing a company over it.
In fact, it is so lacking in constructive quality and comes so darn close to flaming that i see grounds for modding. But at the same time you try to make an actual argument. And you even try to back out up by leaning on external authority. I can't resist responding this time.
@all
Going forward i wish to see less witch hunt style developer bashing. It is unfair, unkind, uncalled for, detrimental to the forum, against the rules. My post is not an invitation to a discussion about, but a one off reply to developer bashing.
What i do wish to see is continued mature on topic discussion of the game and its weaknesses and streangth. From any viewpoint without making it personal!
You quote an article that has virtually no bearing at all.
The article talks of "large-scale makers and sellers of video game" (think EA, Microsoft) with three problems: "distance, fear, and money".
Distance: no personal contact. Anyone that argues this for Next has been living under a rock.
Fear: of copyright piracy. Totally not applicable here.
Money: big games are shipped unfinished prior to hilidays (for instance) in order to not miss the boat for the big sales because they are "are all publicly traded companies. They have quarterly reports and earnings calls, and in each of those calls they are expected to show growth over the past quarter and over the past year. Not showing growth has a way of really irking stockholders". This is not even talking about live games like NML.
So while the title of the article does cater to your gut feeling the content is nowhere near applicable.
Next does in fact communicate a lot, does in fact have real human support, does in fact not fear piracy, is in fact not a big conglomerate needing to grab cash for stock ratings.
But wait! There is one part of the article that actually does perfectly fit! Here it is:
"Enthusiastic fans of a game will occasionally lament a change to the game by complaining bitterly that the developer is only in it for the money. But of course, that’s true: video games are a business, and while honest developers and publishers want to make their money by making good art, profit is still the real name of the game. And that’s fair!"
Again: the bashing and flaming stops here. The ontopic constructive discussion from both positive, neutral and negative viewponts is very welcome continue here.
Links to threads that are useful for beginners (and in some cases even for veterans)
@MadPuppy
Going forward I would like to see, a little less disrespect of the players, less of the blah blah blah, and some substance for a freaking change
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
Thanks for pointing out unclarity.
I edited that sentence. What I meant was a discussion about developer bashing. It was a big post typed on my phone due to my laptop being broken. It's hard editing on five inches of glass.
If you look at my last sentence (not edited) I explicitly invite to constructive on topic duscussion about the game.
Links to threads that are useful for beginners (and in some cases even for veterans)
I am the leader of TWD UK Carl. We are 3rd in the UK Currently and 20 something in the US I believe. We have 20 players, no plans for a second guild at all. Please add us to your list.
Generally I agree with the GC's goals but I will say this. Everything boils down to one thing. Listening. NG seem unable to grasp it. There's a 'we know better than you' attitude and frankly, they don't, at all.
There's a perfect example on the previous page, someone makes a point, the member of staff says 'take my word for it'. That's not listening. That's stfu I've dealt with it, you have to accept it. The world doesn't work that way. The proof is in the pudding. If you say it's so then the game will show it, they'll be no need for the complaint, no need for the reply, it simply wouldn't exist. There is a problem, until you own that and pick it up and actually deal with it there will still be a problem. You're making a choice, if you know it or not.
I brought up ICELs and got crapped all over. The point being it was a great part of the game. The mods or staff said they had dismissed it and replaced it with 'better ideas'. Where?! What better idea? This weekends event is simply awful. I can't remember a better event in the last six months apart from the one day where 15 calls were reduced to the price of 10. 'Better ideas' simply don't exist if every over person is complaining about the same thing. As a side point I haven't pulled a legendary survivor in six months. At one point I'd saved 1600 phones. It's been nerfed to death. Denying it is ridiculous. Look at my account for proof. As above. Complaint, answer, no proof in the game.
That is the point. Anything can be said. You don't show it. Listen. Produce.
Do or do not, there is no try. Listen to Yoda.
I reread my post and hunted for the flaming you saw. I couldn't find it, but apologize it came across that way. It wasn't my intent.
My initial point was simply this: we ask the things we pay for to not be made obsolete at every update, and at times people have requested some changes be reversed, The response has been swift, loud, and clear: "that's not going to happen." So I'm not sure what good a strike has done or will do.
The link to the Consumerist article wasn't posted to equate the size of NG or the mobile platforms to EA, Microsoft, and pc & console gaming. But I felt the conclusions could be extrapolated to mobile platforms and smaller game producers. For example, instead of rushing an update out in time for Christmas, the development schedule runs parallel to TV broadcast timelines. More importantly, the conclusions I posted about the development being driven by money, the signal to noise by vocal players drowning out valid issues, etc, aren't limited to large conglomerates.
Although I've been on the forums since November '15, I don't post often because my posts make mods or staff angry and it's not worth the drama to me. My communication skills must be degrading, because I don't see flaming where they do. The bottom line is that I just want to keep playing the game I love with the friends I've made here, and wish NG would stop nerfing so many traits I've worked so long and spent real money on to perfect. And I wish they'd stop dismissing our issues with those nerfs offhand.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected] or drop me a line here to join!