As far as whether I saw flaming in your post or not I agree @javajnkie I don't see it. While it was harsh criticism I thought it was done without insulting or making it personal or being mean spirited. I wish the mods would protect forum members to the same degree they look out for each other and be more consistent. I fear that free speech is an illusion here.
@MadPuppy wrote: To summarize: You didtrust Next so much that you believe they are out to hurt and work against their players as much as possible.
Nope. You have based your entire post on a misrepresentation of my position. I don't believe Next Games is behind some huge conspiracy against players. What I originally posted was based on their responses to us -- what they've actually told us. Their actual words. For example, when we repeat, they responded by telling us here, on the forums, that they never meant the game to be played that way and would nerf dodge. We asked for the interrupt nerf to be reversed and they said "that's not going to happen." I didn't make that up so I could characterize them as "out to hurt and work against their players." They actually said it!!
However, if you summarize those words as "they're out to work against their players," you might be able to understand why people are upset.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
Bash bash bash,... Exactly what is it that's actual bashing? All I see is a large player base getting fed up of the same old nerfs,. The same old responses,. And the same old policy of shut up or we close it down Plain and simply your stance sounds so unbelievingly disdainful and arrogant,. You mods and admins seem to think you can simply brush theses complaints under the carpet,.. They are not going away I don't see bashing,.. I see a large chunk of your player base disputing what you want us to say and think,.. Simply telling people they can't complain or you can only complain in our "allowed" way is clearly flaming the issue,.
You can try and minipulats the forum attitude and atmosphere as much as you like,. You will it's your jobs,. But surely you can see the stand off attitude isn't working against a player base that fir the main had your back thru other nerfs,.. Even there turning round and saying,.. Hold on this ain't right,. All I see is players finally fighting fire with fire
I love the game,.. I criticise a lot,.. I appreciate the good,.. And battle the bad
@javajnkie I find your arguments cogent well thought out and insightful and spot on! I must have a different definition of what trashing is, because it was no where close, not even in the parking lot of the ball field. I think some are confusing truthful talk with trash talk.
I'm not sure what others have because I don't normally read posts, but the new reward system for challenges does not generate enough TG to keep up with the game. At a minimum they should be doubled and the scale graduated at higher levels. If players (such as myself and I've been at it since the beginning) can't make reasonable progress without going into debt, we will lose interest in the game.
I don't believe the idea of "occupy the forums" attitude I see so frequently on so many threads works. I wish some could be a little more constructive instead of suggesting 'holding a gun' to the developers head, to prove a point. That's such a selfish approach to try to make things better. And not all here react in such a way, but there are some that do. Let's be constructive, and not so much bashing. Has it worked for you lately?
I'm not, in any way trying to 'bash' this coalition of guilds that make up the GC. I actually agreed with many of the original suggestions that were presented, that brought this group together...but...I did not agree with some of the methods that were presented to affect such changes. I simply have a different opinion on how to ensure we have a say in how the game evolves.......for ALL players, newer and endgame alike.
There have been plenty of great suggestions made on this forum that are either just ignored or we are just told "it's not going to happen"
NG should be listening to the ideas of some of these long term top players. They have a lot of experience playing this game, and will make up a very large percentage of the revenue NG collects. And there is no way that their suggestions would be negative to new players, on the other hand, I feel that the current changes that NG have made are negative to new players.
I'm not tagging anyone specifically in this post, it's pretty obvious what it's about and it's really for anyone willing to wade through a wall of text.
If you want back-and-forth discussion in an open environment you are going to hear disagreement and thoughtful analysis. If you want the illusion of open discussion, you're going to have to ban a lot of people and put in a lot more hours. I will never read your terms of use or rules and regulations. I am here for my own purposes and if those are not met or I am unwelcome here don't bother with threats or "warnings" just delete my account and all my posts. Those are my terms of service. If you don't like them you can just feed my play into the analytics hopper and know me that way. @Javajnkie put thought into that post and brought an article about the electronic gaming industry to my attention of which I was unaware. I am a critical reader and I know that it was not written specifically about NG. I am capable of reading and discerning what applies to the situation I've found here and what does not. Her post, in fact, sounds like so many others in the current climate that I have no idea how or why you singled it out. It drew some of the same conclusions I've drawn myself about the actual short-term effectiveness of a spending freeze with the current player base.
In conclusion, let's dwell a bit about the effective difference in power intrinsic to the relationship between forum moderators and forum users. The fact that this user was singled out and chastised by a moderator is far more significant than users flaming each other. For some, it may have a chilling effect, for me it makes me hold my presence here far more lightly, thus my telling it like it is in the second paragraph. You, I hold to a higher standard, as I hope you do yourself. Moderate yourself first.
So... Here's how it stands in reality...before 2.1 (I won't bother going back further, this is a repeat), we were unhappy with the nerfing...we were told there were 2 updates coming, with awesome changes and improvements..oh, and some balancing...2.1 came and due to its effect, we started questioning...we were promised that the second part,,, 2.2.. Would be so good, we would love it and all be happy lil apocalypse campers...2.2 brought with it, just about THE most damaging nerf I have seen in this game....
I'll contrast it to me going to a cool restaurant, and paying for a small but really yummy prime rib steak...I'm happily eating away when along comes the waiter, and whisks it away (without warning), and assures me they will bring out something soooo much better...so I wait eagerly, and a different waiter brings me out a table sized platter of raw chopped meat...and I'm not talking steak tartare here...I don't care how much freaking chopped meat they want to try and force me to eat/accept...I want my freaking prime rib back...but yet another waiter comes out and tells me "shussshhhhhhh, we don't care that you paid for the prime rib we had on our menu since we opened...your going to eat chopped meat and love it"
You are all awesome. Thanks for the support. I seriously went back and read my post to figure out what I said that could be seen as flaming or dev bashing. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused by @MadPuppy 's response.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
[mod edit] Please respect each other & the rules: "Don’t argue openly with a moderator or admin. If you have a beef, take it to private messages. You may not openly discuss any actions taken against you or your posts by a Next Games moderator, staff member or administrator. Keep your posts constructive. If you have a beef with the developers, don't be a jerk about it. Say your piece and move on. "
I am easily confused by other people's, laziness and sloppiness and greed...
Any guess who might " now " be on my list, ( in 2017 )
You are all awesome. Thanks for the support. I seriously went back and read my post to figure out what I said that could be seen as flaming or dev bashing. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused by @MadPuppy 's response.
Just a classic case of over modding @javajnkie we all see it and quite frankly it's pathetic.
The second one is posted below for those that don't like to click links:
Why don't video game companies listen to their customers more?
Your assumption is completely incorrect. Game companies listen to their customers and those likely to become customers intently. Game companies pay people to monitor forums and feedback closely. I get notices on my phone in the middle of the night when forum posts meet certain conditions.
I suspect you are overlooking a few key aspects to this feedback loop.
We listen, but we interpret. We use a statistical and scientific approach to harvesting quality information from the raw ore of player comments. We very much want the best and most accurate information we can get.
Science shows, for all manner of Internet product feedback and especially for games, the demeanor is much more negative, angry and confrontational than the average for all customers. What we hear is concentrated negativity.
The unsolicited player feedback we get represents only .03% of our player base. The few, the loud, the extreme. We also collect feedback from focus groups made up of more mid bell curve players to improve our understanding. We will not implement changes that 14 people want but 30,000 would hate.
Players do not tell the truth in forums. Player analytics show us exactly how and where people play, for how long, on what difficulty settings. Their successes, failures, trading, crafting, upgrading and numerous other details. When we compare that to what players write online, there are predictable differences. I know other companies experience the same thing. Features that the forums hate often increase player counts, sales and average time in game.
Conversly, studies have shown that players are poor designers. If you give them what they literally ask for, they like it less. It is a deceptively difficult medium to design for. What works better is to have professional designers make well considered changes based on the issues revealed by analysis of lots of feedback.
Games companies do listen, but the signal we get is noisy and scrambled. We apply various techniques to tease out the actionable data. That sometimes means individuals do not feel that their specific request is addressed, but know that their statistical influence is.
I think the the article I posted concluded many of the same things. Especially the parts about signal to noise and the outspoken group representing a small percentage of their players/revenue. How is yours okay while mine is flaming?
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
After the massive nerf i Discovered my sadic nature.I want to Be constructive as i've been told and i propose for realistic purpose as a future nerf that guns should jam and survivors also should also be able to shoot eachother .After all If i cant have fun anymore killing freeman or high lvl walkers i should be allowed at least the pleasure to kill my own .I will come Back with more constructive ideas to run this game to new hights .At least 1 inch from the ground.
Ya know, never mind. Disregard my question; it doesn't really matter. The drama still isn't worth it to me, and I dont want to be responsible for having this thread shut down over petty bickering.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
I don't play a lot of video games or else I would get nothing done. It's a wonder why I downloaded this one knowing that but the first link is an article about console games and I'm pretty sure that is a one time purchase and not apps with in app purchases. So that link is an apples to oranges comparison and thus not really a valid comparison.
Next article is written by 1 game developer. That article was biased and the voice of one man. Sorry if I don't put all my eggs in his basket.
Again we aren't talking about other games or companies we are talking about TWD: NML.
Listen guys, I know some/most of you are upset about changes made in game. They've been explained thoroughly over the past week. If you want to take it as BS, that's your own prerogative - you've had questions and we've given answers. As always, your feedback is being taken on board (I held a presentation just this morning regarding it amongst other things) and is very much appreciated.
I do take issue with how this discussion is evolving. It's important to remember that the moderators are players first, volunteers second who spend most of their days (!) making sure the forums are as good an experience for all who make their way here. As players and community members they are as entitled to create discussion and express their opinion as anybody else on these forums. That being said, it's extremely important we don't create a forum-goers vs. mods/admins situation. You (javajnkie and MadPuppy) may have had a heated back-and-forth, but I suggest leaving it at that for calms sake. If you'd like, you can take it into PM's as I'm positive as clever and well-spoken as you both are you can figure it out.
This thread is meant for discussion about the Guild Council and their efforts to improve the game for all of us. Let's please bring it back on track. If any of you would like to discuss moderating policy and actions or anything else, my inbox is always open and I'd gladly hear what's on your mind.
@MadPuppy , peace. I meant no offense, I'm nearly impossible to offend, and I have a thick skin. Plus, we were just called clever and well-spoken. Who can argue with that?
GC: sorry for hijacking your thread. Carry on.
DTP leader Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates. Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
I don't play a lot of video games or else I would get nothing done. It's a wonder why I downloaded this one knowing that but the first link is an article about console games and I'm pretty sure that is a one time purchase and not apps with in app purchases. So that link is an apples to oranges comparison and thus not really a valid comparison.
Next article is written by 1 game developer. That article was biased and the voice of one man. Sorry if I don't put all my eggs in his basket.
Again we aren't talking about other games or companies we are talking about TWD: NML.
Thanks @Shut_Up , thanks for picking up my point. Those were the two that popped up when I googled.
I apologize for derailing the thread. Back to GC business.
Absolutely @MadPuppy has a right as a fellow player, to express himself too, however because he's a mod...
it's like if your in school and the teacher says "ok, open discussion and im gonna join in on your level...." Sounds awesome, but looming quietly over that discussion is the fact that the teacher still has the power chair...the students would be at a disadvantage...
That's what it feels like when a mod talks to a mere player as he did...we have to be careful of our words, for fear of being "warned", but if we complain that the mod sounded toxic, we get told to shush.
Looks like they sorted it, which is awesome, but the simple fact that he has the title "mod" is in itself intimidating when he calls someone out like that...
We should have "right of reply" without risking the wrath of the person sitting in that power chair..
Comments
To summarize: You didtrust Next so much that you believe they are out to hurt and work against their players as much as possible.
Nope. You have based your entire post on a misrepresentation of my position. I don't believe Next Games is behind some huge conspiracy against players. What I originally posted was based on their responses to us -- what they've actually told us. Their actual words. For example, when we repeat, they responded by telling us here, on the forums, that they never meant the game to be played that way and would nerf dodge. We asked for the interrupt nerf to be reversed and they said "that's not going to happen." I didn't make that up so I could characterize them as "out to hurt and work against their players." They actually said it!!
However, if you summarize those words as "they're out to work against their players," you might be able to understand why people are upset.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
All I see is a large player base getting fed up of the same old nerfs,. The same old responses,. And the same old policy of shut up or we close it down
Plain and simply your stance sounds so unbelievingly disdainful and arrogant,.
You mods and admins seem to think you can simply brush theses complaints under the carpet,.. They are not going away
I don't see bashing,.. I see a large chunk of your player base disputing what you want us to say and think,..
Simply telling people they can't complain or you can only complain in our "allowed" way is clearly flaming the issue,.
You can try and minipulats the forum attitude and atmosphere as much as you like,. You will it's your jobs,. But surely you can see the stand off attitude isn't working against a player base that fir the main had your back thru other nerfs,.. Even there turning round and saying,.. Hold on this ain't right,. All I see is players finally fighting fire with fire
DON'T TALK,.. THINK
Lose Ends Make My Ass Itch
Maggie,.. I'll Find You,.....
NG should be listening to the ideas of some of these long term top players. They have a lot of experience playing this game, and will make up a very large percentage of the revenue NG collects.
And there is no way that their suggestions would be negative to new players, on the other hand, I feel that the current changes that NG have made are negative to new players.
If you want back-and-forth discussion in an open environment you are going to hear disagreement and thoughtful analysis. If you want the illusion of open discussion, you're going to have to ban a lot of people and put in a lot more hours. I will never read your terms of use or rules and regulations. I am here for my own purposes and if those are not met or I am unwelcome here don't bother with threats or "warnings" just delete my account and all my posts. Those are my terms of service. If you don't like them you can just feed my play into the analytics hopper and know me that way.
@Javajnkie put thought into that post and brought an article about the electronic gaming industry to my attention of which I was unaware. I am a critical reader and I know that it was not written specifically about NG. I am capable of reading and discerning what applies to the situation I've found here and what does not. Her post, in fact, sounds like so many others in the current climate that I have no idea how or why you singled it out. It drew some of the same conclusions I've drawn myself about the actual short-term effectiveness of a spending freeze with the current player base.
In conclusion, let's dwell a bit about the effective difference in power intrinsic to the relationship between forum moderators and forum users. The fact that this user was singled out and chastised by a moderator is far more significant than users flaming each other. For some, it may have a chilling effect, for me it makes me hold my presence here far more lightly, thus my telling it like it is in the second paragraph. You, I hold to a higher standard, as I hope you do yourself. Moderate yourself first.
With all due respect....
I know English is not your first language, but I am clearly not alone in thinking that @MadPuppy was out of line...
We are, quite frankly, done with being told BS in vague, over worded, convoluted attempts to placate us...
Adress the issue instead of chastising us like children.
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
Here's how it stands in reality...before 2.1 (I won't bother going back further, this is a repeat), we were unhappy with the nerfing...we were told there were 2 updates coming, with awesome changes and improvements..oh, and some balancing...2.1 came and due to its effect, we started questioning...we were promised that the second part,,, 2.2.. Would be so good, we would love it and all be happy lil apocalypse campers...2.2 brought with it, just about THE most damaging nerf I have seen in this game....
I'll contrast it to me going to a cool restaurant, and paying for a small but really yummy prime rib steak...I'm happily eating away when along comes the waiter, and whisks it away (without warning), and assures me they will bring out something soooo much better...so I wait eagerly, and a different waiter brings me out a table sized platter of raw chopped meat...and I'm not talking steak tartare here...I don't care how much freaking chopped meat they want to try and force me to eat/accept...I want my freaking prime rib back...but yet another waiter comes out and tells me "shussshhhhhhh, we don't care that you paid for the prime rib we had on our menu since we opened...your going to eat chopped meat and love it"
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
I seriously went back and read my post to figure out what I said that could be seen as flaming or dev bashing. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused by @MadPuppy 's response.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
Sorry that you don't understand, that this Board is aimed toward Americans...
With American Money...
And we see the " condensing " moderating...
Ahhh... Disguise the greed and arrogance, with cute vapor badges...
Oh yea... It's a American Show... And you are Financed by American Money...
Grow up @Teeceezy...
[mod edit] Please respect each other & the rules:
"Don’t argue openly with a moderator or admin. If you have a beef, take it to private messages.
You may not openly discuss any actions taken against you or your posts by a Next Games moderator, staff member or administrator.
Keep your posts constructive. If you have a beef with the developers, don't be a jerk about it. Say your piece and move on. "
Any guess who might " now " be on my list, ( in 2017 )
Send me a PM if interested
Any guess who might " now " be on my list, ( in 2017 )
Game Developers and the Fans Who Hate Them and
Why don't video game companies listen to their customers more?.
The second one is posted below for those that don't like to click links:
Why don't video game companies listen to their customers more?
I suspect you are overlooking a few key aspects to this feedback loop.
We listen, but we interpret. We use a statistical and scientific approach to harvesting quality information from the raw ore of player comments. We very much want the best and most accurate information we can get.
Science shows, for all manner of Internet product feedback and especially for games, the demeanor is much more negative, angry and confrontational than the average for all customers. What we hear is concentrated negativity.
The unsolicited player feedback we get represents only .03% of our player base. The few, the loud, the extreme. We also collect feedback from focus groups made up of more mid bell curve players to improve our understanding. We will not implement changes that 14 people want but 30,000 would hate.
Players do not tell the truth in forums. Player analytics show us exactly how and where people play, for how long, on what difficulty settings. Their successes, failures, trading, crafting, upgrading and numerous other details. When we compare that to what players write online, there are predictable differences. I know other companies experience the same thing. Features that the forums hate often increase player counts, sales and average time in game.
Conversly, studies have shown that players are poor designers. If you give them what they literally ask for, they like it less. It is a deceptively difficult medium to design for. What works better is to have professional designers make well considered changes based on the issues revealed by analysis of lots of feedback.
Games companies do listen, but the signal we get is noisy and scrambled. We apply various techniques to tease out the actionable data. That sometimes means individuals do not feel that their specific request is addressed, but know that their statistical influence is.
As for responses, it's 11 pm in Finland.
Feeling Lost, Click Here!
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
Mod edit: removed spoiler.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
Next article is written by 1 game developer. That article was biased and the voice of one man. Sorry if I don't put all my eggs in his basket.
Again we aren't talking about other games or companies we are talking about TWD: NML.
I do take issue with how this discussion is evolving. It's important to remember that the moderators are players first, volunteers second who spend most of their days (!) making sure the forums are as good an experience for all who make their way here. As players and community members they are as entitled to create discussion and express their opinion as anybody else on these forums. That being said, it's extremely important we don't create a forum-goers vs. mods/admins situation. You (javajnkie and MadPuppy) may have had a heated back-and-forth, but I suggest leaving it at that for calms sake. If you'd like, you can take it into PM's as I'm positive as clever and well-spoken as you both are you can figure it out.
This thread is meant for discussion about the Guild Council and their efforts to improve the game for all of us. Let's please bring it back on track. If any of you would like to discuss moderating policy and actions or anything else, my inbox is always open and I'd gladly hear what's on your mind.
Time for bed.
Cheers guys.
Message slut.
I meant no offense, I'm nearly impossible to offend, and I have a thick skin.
Plus, we were just called clever and well-spoken. Who can argue with that?
GC: sorry for hijacking your thread. Carry on.
Disturbing the Peace = the answer to the most common question asked by new guild mates.
Looking for a great guild family? Email [email protected]
I ain't mad at cha
I meant to pm my respect but since we're out in the open anyhow being cuddly and all: thanks for that post.
There was a lot more respect in my mind than the subsequent replies assumed from my post.
Feel free to pm.
Links to threads that are useful for beginners (and in some cases even for veterans)
I apologize for derailing the thread. Back to GC business.
Feeling Lost, Click Here!
Absolutely @MadPuppy has a right as a fellow player, to express himself too, however because he's a mod...
it's like if your in school and the teacher says "ok, open discussion and im gonna join in on your level...." Sounds awesome, but looming quietly over that discussion is the fact that the teacher still has the power chair...the students would be at a disadvantage...
That's what it feels like when a mod talks to a mere player as he did...we have to be careful of our words, for fear of being "warned", but if we complain that the mod sounded toxic, we get told to shush.
Looks like they sorted it, which is awesome, but the simple fact that he has the title "mod" is in itself intimidating when he calls someone out like that...
We should have "right of reply" without risking the wrath of the person sitting in that power chair..
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild
Xoxo
Click here to join RETRIBUTION guild