The math behind the farm

LanceLance Member Posts: 568
edited January 2016 in Strategy Discussion
I am lv 29, with lv 12 survivors, with LV 12 council. saving up for lv 12 training grounds.

My farms are currently all lv6.

I did not do the math but the cost to improve them seem to much for the benefit I will have (time to repay themselves and start making a little profit).

I wondering if even lv6 was too much ?
For those who done the maths, what the level we should stop improving the farm (unless we just want some BP) ?
unduzzzzz
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Comments

  • drinkydrinky Member Posts: 414
    tbh youve nailed it in that you need the building points to upgrade level to beable to upgrade the council to be upgrade training grounds etc etc.

    personally not done the maths but do like the steady income they bring it does mount up quite a bit, however when you start getting to the 1.2m a building things slow quick ;-)
    Lev 58. Rick Rollers Elder
  • AysatyoPetAysatyoPet Member Posts: 1,168
    Upgrade your farm always. So that during idle time (while you are sleeping or busy on other things or just waiting for gas refill), you are still gaining tomatoes..

    zoson
  • Upgrade your farm always. So that during idle time (while you are sleeping or busy on other things or just waiting for gas refill), you are still gaining tomatoes..

    I agree completely. I suspect the math people are using to talk themselves out of upgrading the farm plots does not take into account the amount of soups people lose because they are not logged in all day every day making sure the farm plots stores do not get so fully they stop producing.
    zoson
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    edited January 2016
    I stopped upgrading my farms at level 8. I wish I had stopped at level 7. I would have 2.23 million more ketchup to spend on other buildings if I had. That's an upgrade for my workshop(9-10), my radio tent(6-7), and still some left over.

    Even with idle time it takes more than two weeks to recoup the loss of ketchup JUST from upgrading all your farms from 7-8. You also seem to be neglecting the fact that during the time a farm is upgrading you get NO KETCHUP at all from that farm.

    At the rate of generation(1400) assuming ideal conditions, it works out to 12.8 days. Since you can't upgrade all your farms at the same time you lose 15 hours of generation per farm. That's 21,000 ketchup each, 105,000 total, and 3.125 days of time lost for a grand total of about 16 days to recoup.

    Also you still, at level 7, earn 1100 per hour, so you're generating ketchup during those 75 total hours your farms are upgrading, for another 82,500 ketchup. Taking THIS into consideration, even at 1400/hour that's ANOTHER 2.45 days. We're up to over 18 days to recoup all your losses.

    Sorry ladies, farms are flat out not a good deal to upgrade beyond level 7. Not. Even. Close.

    [Deleted User]NoggerJippel
  • VerbaubVerbaub Member Posts: 650
    But isn't it worth it if you're in it for the long haul?
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    Nope, specifically because there is a maximum survivor and weapons level in place. Get there first, then after that upgrade your farms since there's nothing else to upgrade.
    NobMatteo
  • AysatyoPetAysatyoPet Member Posts: 1,168
    You can also get tomatoes from other source, not just from farm. The tomatoes you're not getting while upgrading your farm can be covered by getting tomatoes from other source (missions, walker on fence, chests, etc.). When the upgrade is done, it will produce more tomatoes than before, so there is a return of investment in the long run, making you produce more tomatoes in the future. Too many factor to consider to make a correct computation. You can use gold to shorten the upgrading period or use it to buy more gas to do more missions. Even the gas you get from chest will count as this also gives you another chance to do a mission and get more tomatoes. Logically speaking, trying to calculate something with variable factors will only give you variable results.

  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    You still get that ketchup while not upgrading your farms, so that's not even a relevant argument at all.

    And I considered the increased amount already. As you would have seen if you read my post, I used best case scenario. So the estimates for the amount you would earn are even higher than you would actually earn.

    I'm not the only one who has worked this out. It's NOT a complex formula, it's a simple rate of change calculus problem. If you actually did the math yourself, you would see how horribly incorrect you are. @AysatyoPet
    [Deleted User]
  • DreadDread Member Posts: 450
    edited January 2016
    level the farms to level 7 and then wait to level them higher after you have nothing else to upgrade and have supplies to spare.

    The payout for level 8 will take many weeks of idle time to pay for itself... each.
    In the longest of long runs, it will pay off and make you more, but when you need to upgrade other things to progress, you will be setting yourself back a long long time.

    level 7 is the sweet spot as it ups the max holdings to 10 hours of idle time instead of 8.

    once you literally have everything upgraded and are just waiting around for updates, then leveling your plots will be a great investment for the future.
    As I witness the death of innocence... A predator feeding on its creation.
    Through the fallout of this hallucination, I walked into darkness.
    I must not surrender my god to anyone, or this body will become carrion.
    One step closer to my fate. One step closer to my grave.
    zosonTheSheriffTUCOunduzzzzz
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
  • Dread said:

    level the farms to level 7 and then wait to level them higher after you have nothing else to upgrade and have supplies to spare.

    The payout for level 8 will take many weeks of idle time to pay for itself... each.
    In the longest of long runs, it will pay off and make you more, but when you need to upgrade other things to progress, you will be setting yourself back a long long time.

    level 7 is the sweet spot as it ups the max holdings to 10 hours of idle time instead of 8.

    once you literally have everything upgraded and are just waiting around for updates, then leveling your plots will be a great investment for the future.

    Thats exactly what I am doing @Dread and why I advised @Lance to upgrade the farm plots. Having them at level 7 provides a good balance for the camp to function well until you have nothing left to upgrade with the exception of the Xp tents. I figured that out all on my own. No calculus needed.
  • gabriel_lwhgabriel_lwh Member Posts: 454
    All 5 of my farm plots are at Level 7 exactly and I have no intention of upgrading any of them to Level 8 yet.

    It makes more sense to upgrade other buildings such as Training Ground and Workshop instead as I can then upgrade my survivors and equipments since most of them have already reached the maximum levels I can upgrade them to.


    IGN: Gabriel
    Member of CONQUER / THE UNINFECTED / ALEXANDRIANS
  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,155
    I agree that upgrading farm plots goes down in priority after level 7. However once everything else is upgraded, it's worth doing.

    What kills me is that the next food upgrade will only increase production by 150 per hour, but the storage goes up to 20,000! That will be almost 12 hours of food production storage.

    Now if you really want to talk low output, look at the tents. they give minimal amounts for a ton of food to upgrade. I upgrade my food plots before my tents.
    [Deleted User]stevie05
  • TWDTWD Member Posts: 20
    edited January 2016
    Depends how hardcore a player you are. I personally only log in to collect my tomatoes every now and then and go about doing other things in my day, if I have time, I'll squeeze in a mission or two, so waiting a few weeks to see a good return isn't too big a deal for me. In the end, you will still upgrade all your buildings sooner or later. Whether it's your workshop, training ground or your farms first, it's really up to how soon you want each of them to complete.

    If you're a hardcore player and cannot wait to get the best out of your survivors so you can play as soon as possible, then yes, you should aim for that first.
    [Deleted User]
  • DreadDread Member Posts: 450
    edited January 2016
    TWD said:

    Depends how hardcore a player you are. I personally only log in to collect my tomatoes every now and then and go about doing other things in my day, if I have time, I'll squeeze in a mission or two, so waiting a few weeks to see a good return isn't too big a deal for me. In the end, you will still upgrade all your buildings sooner or later. Whether it's your workshop, training ground or your farms first, it's really up to how soon you want each of them to complete.

    If you're a hardcore player and cannot wait to get the best out of your survivors so you can play as soon as possible, then yes, you should aim for that first.

    to get to lvl 8, you are talking more than a few weeks, you are talking months of recoup time for each plot. bare minimum.
    especially if you only log in to collect your supplies every once in awhile.
    this is assuming you actually collect every supply before it caps out every 10 hours without fail.

    an increase of 300 per hour, for 430,000 each.

    430,000/300=1433.3 hours (2 months) to recoup from a single upgrade. this isn't even counting the time it takes for the upgrade to finish... but when you're talking about 2 months for each plot.. who cares about another 20 hours. lol

    to each their own, but the great thing about numbers is they don't lie.
    As I witness the death of innocence... A predator feeding on its creation.
    Through the fallout of this hallucination, I walked into darkness.
    I must not surrender my god to anyone, or this body will become carrion.
    One step closer to my fate. One step closer to my grave.
    [Deleted User]stevie05
  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,149
    If you build it, you will farm it...
  • TWDTWD Member Posts: 20
    edited January 2016
    Dread said:

    TWD said:

    Depends how hardcore a player you are. I personally only log in to collect my tomatoes every now and then and go about doing other things in my day, if I have time, I'll squeeze in a mission or two, so waiting a few weeks to see a good return isn't too big a deal for me. In the end, you will still upgrade all your buildings sooner or later. Whether it's your workshop, training ground or your farms first, it's really up to how soon you want each of them to complete.

    If you're a hardcore player and cannot wait to get the best out of your survivors so you can play as soon as possible, then yes, you should aim for that first.

    to get to lvl 8, you are talking more than a few weeks, you are talking months of recoup time for each plot. bare minimum.
    especially if you only log in to collect your supplies every once in awhile.
    this is assuming you actually collect every supply before it caps out every 10 hours without fail.

    an increase of 300 per hour, for 430,000 each.

    430,000/300=1433.3 hours (2 months) to recoup from a single upgrade. this isn't even counting the time it takes for the upgrade to finish... but when you're talking about 2 months for each plot.. who cares about another 20 hours. lol

    to each their own, but the great thing about numbers is they don't lie.
    But that doesn't change the point that it all comes down to personal preference and priorities. Like I said, in the end, everyone will upgrade everything sooner or later and it's just a matter of which building you personally wish to see upgraded first or last.

    It took me about 1 week to upgrade all 4 of my farm slots to level 8, playing no more than a combined 30min a day in total, after which I'm now earning a steady 28.8K extra food everyday.

    Sure I could have spent those 1.72M upgrading other buildings of my choice, but once I'm done upgrading them, I'll still end up having to go back to the same waiting game to accumulate supplies to reach the next level, except that the wait will be longer since buildings become more and more expensive every time.
    [Deleted User]Dreadstevie05
  • piepsilonpiepsilon Member Posts: 36
    the exact math are (430000 +1100*15)/300. For a little bit more than 1488 hours. so 62 days. My others buildings costed me 710K. the 430K investment per farm fell a good deal. Before I upgrade a building, I do those math but when I upgraded them, I forget right after that it will pay in 62 days and I am happy right now to see a greater amount of tomatoes.
  • aysatyoaysatyo Member Posts: 352
    guild reward gave me huge tomatoes. does that lessen the days?
  • DreadDread Member Posts: 450
    aysatyo said:

    guild reward gave me huge tomatoes. does that lessen the days?

    time travel would lessen the days.
    As I witness the death of innocence... A predator feeding on its creation.
    Through the fallout of this hallucination, I walked into darkness.
    I must not surrender my god to anyone, or this body will become carrion.
    One step closer to my fate. One step closer to my grave.
  • aysatyoaysatyo Member Posts: 352
    Dread said:

    aysatyo said:

    guild reward gave me huge tomatoes. does that lessen the days?

    time travel would lessen the days.
    time travelling breaks the law of time and space continuum.. making time and day insignificant. it may shorten or lengthen the day for you but not for the world you live in who abides the rules of time and space continuum..
    stevie05
  • DreadDread Member Posts: 450
    aysatyo said:

    Dread said:

    aysatyo said:

    guild reward gave me huge tomatoes. does that lessen the days?

    time travel would lessen the days.
    time travelling breaks the law of time and space continuum.. making time and day insignificant. it may shorten or lengthen the day for you but not for the world you live in who abides the rules of time and space continuum..
    i wonder if it also counts as "hax"
    Ive read the ToS over and over and there is no mention of time travel being against the rules.
    I'm off to the laboratory!
    As I witness the death of innocence... A predator feeding on its creation.
    Through the fallout of this hallucination, I walked into darkness.
    I must not surrender my god to anyone, or this body will become carrion.
    One step closer to my fate. One step closer to my grave.
  • AysatyoPetAysatyoPet Member Posts: 1,168
    Dread said:

    aysatyo said:

    Dread said:

    aysatyo said:

    guild reward gave me huge tomatoes. does that lessen the days?

    time travel would lessen the days.
    time travelling breaks the law of time and space continuum.. making time and day insignificant. it may shorten or lengthen the day for you but not for the world you live in who abides the rules of time and space continuum..
    i wonder if it also counts as "hax"
    Ive read the ToS over and over and there is no mention of time travel being against the rules.
    I'm off to the laboratory!
    You probably read the old version of the article. It has been revised. And the revised code stated that time traveling is against the law as it creates a ripple effect that is best described in the article 1 to 3 of the book back-to-the-future.

  • VerbaubVerbaub Member Posts: 650
    So .... is it just a coin flip when all you have left is Farms or Tents? Because the Tents seem like they have an even more useless rate of return than the Farms. But I'm not a math guy ....
  • AysatyoPetAysatyoPet Member Posts: 1,168
    You can have more xp in missions, challenges, and rewards than the tent can produce.. so you dont need to compute it.

  • NecroboogieNecroboogie Member Posts: 1,108
  • VerbaubVerbaub Member Posts: 650
    right-ee-oh
    i'm going to do Supplies, then Farms, then Tents

    unless we get an upgrade before I finish ...
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    edited January 2016
    If your main goal is to get survivors to level 15 ASAP, then you should stop leveling your farms at 7. Leveling them from 7 to 8 will delay you being able to get level 15 survivors by over a month.

    As we have discussed in many previous threads, survivor level is the most important thing for progression of stars and completing the newer content. So if we're talking raw min/maxing and best use of your resources in this context, there is no choice or personal preference. It's a solid fact that you're wasting time by leveling your farms beyond level 7 until AFTER you have a level 14 TG.

    But hey, if you want to shoot yourself in the foot and slow down your progression, that is your own prerogative.
    stevie05
  • VerbaubVerbaub Member Posts: 650
    edited January 2016
    What is TG?

    I think I need more coffee. Today's lesson is - get your dang Training Ground leveled up as fast as possible!!

    stevie05
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