Super Cycle & Changes to Outposts Matchmaking - Official Discussion Thread

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  • PoppyPoppy Member Posts: 1,146
    @Shteevie
    When the 2.2 neo dodge fixes come in will they still be able to doge your hard fought charge attacks?

    Can i just clarify as well the current issue is that all dodge types are stacking so melee is in fact dodging bullets and vice versa giving them a massive dodge chance?
  • That is the main issue of Outpost PvAI and, a big problem for them. People invested so much on that build. There are many implications of a Nerf. One implication is the logical possibility of refund.
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    You a lot of people made big moves in their influence that would not have been able to move up the ladder without this event. Now they can post screenshots and say look at me I'm such a great player.

    One thing I disagree with though is the higher you go up the ladder the influence you can win goes down. As you go up the ladder the matches should be getting harder so I would like to see the influence you can at least stay the same and not decrease as you go higher if not increase as you go higher.
    MadPuppy
  • PoppyPoppy Member Posts: 1,146
    Shut_Up said:

    You a lot of people made big moves in their influence that would not have been able to move up the ladder without this event. Now they can post screenshots and say look at me I'm such a great player.



    One thing I disagree with though is the higher you go up the ladder the influence you can win goes down. As you go up the ladder the matches should be getting harder so I would like to see the influence you can at least stay the same and not decrease as you go higher if not increase as you go higher.

    Always found that silly that the higher you go therefore facing tougher oppnents you get less reward.

    Personally i would like to see TG and inf standardised for a win, for example

    X x 1.5 Tg & Inf vs superior opponents
    X Tg & Inf vs equal opponents
    X x 0.5 TG & Inf vs inferior opponents

    Current system is all over the shop and makes no sence at all!


    MadPuppyShut_Up
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,725
    @DLich Wow, can't believe you dug up and found that buried post. Thanks for the clarification. I still stand by my original post and agree with @MorpheusOfZion that it's completely nonsensical for zombies to ignore the defenders.
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    DLich[Deleted User]RollerbobMrSorrow
  • One of the more fun challenge missions are those that involve walkers and Freemen. Personally, I think it is much better when Freemen and walkers kill each other than when I have to kill Freemen before they kill me. In outpost, it would be the same if walkers also attack the defenders. It will open options on strategy. I can open the gate and then go to a corner where I can effectively defend myself while keeping ready for the exact moment defenders are distracted by the walkers then I can grab the loot and go. If I need the Influence Points to unlock something in the shop, then I can raid stronger defenders while increasing the possibility of avoiding hospital time with the distraction provided by the outsider walkers.
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    Walkers attacking defenders

    -It would be nonsensical to level up your defending walkers if they could be used against the defenders. I like the idea in concept, but I know a lot of players would be upset that they had spent resources on helping their defenders lose, no matter how difficult of a trick it is to pull off.

    Blood and Gore Shirt

    -It's a cool idea that isn't reflected in the game. It couldn't be "walker invisibility" that lasts all mission, though - too exploitable. I'll add it to the hopper and see if we can use it.

    Diminishing Influence rewards

    -The basic idea is to have many properties of a ELO system. In these, the amount gained is based on the loser's score relative to your own. A higher ranked player will win less than the lower-ranked player in the match, because of the relative difficulty in earning that win. And, as you go up, it becomes less likely that we find you a match that is higher still, and so you will naturally be earning smaller amounts as you climb to the top.

    Without a diminishing returns system like this, achievement tiers would get farther and farther apart, and individual points would lose meaning.

    All of this said, though, influence right now is a poor indicator of past performance. We want to base rewards off of it more completely, but that won't happen in 2.2. I have plans for what will happen when we adjust the system again next time, and I'll be using the data from this cycle and the next few to determine if those plans are appropriate.

    Dodge issues

    -It's my understanding that Bullet Dodge is now only dodging bullets, and that regular Dodge only ever dodged non-bullets. If you have experiences to the contrary, we'd love to get some data on that so we can track down any possible remaining bugs. I do think that charge attacks should have a favorable match-up to dodges, since you get fewer of them. I'll look and see if anything like this was previously proposed or on the backlog for implementation. Thanks for the suggestion!
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
  • Tapatio75Tapatio75 Member Posts: 636
    I went up 500 points in a few days, one guy lost and I got 54 influence, I use level 19 legs and yesterday I got a team of 18-17-16. Creepy
  • Outsider Walkers are not defender's walkers. Players did not level them up. They were not captured in the first place. But the level of Outsider Walkers now are such that they have been related to the level of the Captured Walkers. If the problem is how to determine the level of Outsider Walkers then the best way is to make it random. That way, it is more realistic and faithful to the comics and the show.
  • I support the search for ways to resolve the issue of overpowered excellent Dodgers. I understand that one solution being looked into is un-stack %Luck in weapons to total %Dodge. But a word of caution. Excellent Dodgers did not happen by chance. Players spent real money developing them. That Nerf have huge implication to players who developed their teams based on the NML game premise of trait stacking, a build that has been encouraged in the first place by the sale of weapons with gold Luck. While we cannot provide proof for having spent gold leveling up weapons with Luck for the purpose of increasing Dodge. We have receipts for purchase of weapons with Luck. Players may invoke consumer rights on that. It is like we purchased a car because it has features that increase speed at a price suitable for that great feature then suddenly my car no longer has that feature because the seller removed it. Under Consumer Rights, specifically, Consumer Protection, that can be considered "faulty product" or "products that developed a fault" and we are entitled to a refund under the law.
    tallinie
  • _NoName_NoName Member Posts: 188
    Logically walkers are captured and not tamed. I guess that's one of the reasons why its called a "pit" - and not "rehab". There are also the gates to protect the defenders from the walkers.

    I liked the idea of having to kill only one wave of walkers before entering through the gates, but I have to admit being immediately sandwiched between the undead and defenders is challenging. I completely agree with the idea of having the walkers hunt down both attackers and defenders at the same time.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
    @Shteevie
    It was never intended as threat. It was cautionary advice, the complete opposite. If threat is south, caution is north. When one cautions another, the former wants the latter to stay out of harm. If one threatens another, the former is ready to harm the latter.

    Threatening you with class suit? Of course not! Giving you a word of caution which is in order? Yes. It is very real. I know of at least one country where the internet law defines virtual goods exactly as I understand it.

    You and your team are giving us a glimpse of your passion and commitment. I know, work is an invisible limb of man or woman. The fruits of his labor defines a man. I do not also take changes to this game lightly.


    T_12
  • DrPsychedelicDrPsychedelic Member Posts: 179
    Why did you change it? The outpost was almost fun before the last change. Please put it back.
  • _wendy__wendy_ Member Posts: 171
    I enjoyed outpost this weekend. Fast healing helps a lot
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    edited September 2016
    Even though I agree with you that all these changes haven't made outposts better and not just the the last update but the last several, you have been here long enough to know that they always go forward and not backwards.

    I feel your frustration though. I liked then simple and straightforward.
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    Threatening the devs with a class action lawsuit lol. Would you file in Finland or In the country you live in? I thought I've seen everything on this forum.

    I know a lot of people hate rural map with the double sandbags but I'm curious why the map was changed so that you can't place defenders down that first vertical column on the left. I used to use a defense that needed to place a defender in that space that's now a void for placing defenders. I get that was supposed to be an improvement but I'm not sure how.
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    @MorpheusOfZion
    Thanks for the glimpse into your thought process. How hastily or thoughtfully we plan updates is a valid concern - I dare say that we have been moving kind of fast. Some areas of the game may seem completely transformed in 2.2, such as the way we present the new playable content.

    I fully expect to be called out when the promises and the realities don't align. But in the same way that I know that parts of the playerbase are looking for soft targets for their barbs, I need to find the right balance between defensive and pre-emptive. We're all going to see change in real time. How we choose to discuss it is a choice we all make over and over again.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    MarsOne1RisDegreaserT_12
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    Want easy walkers in the front? Look for outposts that offer below 400 TG's

    Want a good chance at not playing against an outpost using rural farm map 3? Look for outposts that don't have 1 bruiser and 2 ranged opponents.

    Just focus on what you're seeing when you do select an outpost to battle.

    You can't skip but you can press the X button to cancel. Play outposts that have 350-430 influence and no bruiser and you'll do better.

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    edited September 2016
    Null

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    | OG | NOC | USA | UK | CA | CQR | UC | RAD | ZEN |
    Other Leaders | Kick_ass | Pic | abailey362 | GunnerGaz | JMo2127 |
    MAVERICK'S 1 Million Star Club | OG | USA | NOC
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    | My YouTube Videos | My 1st Interview | Best Analogy Award!! |

    Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
    I agree, in fact, there's a player whose favorite past time is unleashing barbs. I think he/she finds pleasure on that. Perhaps he/she is very young or something really bad happened to him/her while he/she was very young and still carries the burden now. To feel better, he/she needs to channel negative emotions on something else, a Defense Mechanism called Displacement in Psychology. In this case, it is the forum. But he/she should be reminded that he/she is not far enough from the arms of the law. Online libel is something he/she can be liable for in here. There are legal precedence on this. And, for virtual goods, Chapter 3 of UK's Consumer Rights Act of 2015 is very applicable. There are also precedence in UK on jurisdiction, see International Commercial Litigation.
  • MovadoMovado Member Posts: 863
    With forthcoming updates, will there be any further enhancements to the importance of Influence points? I understand different players have different motivations for participating in Outposts. But beyond just weekend Outpost events, I feel that in order for longevity's sake, Influence has to mean something (the cycle rewards itself are somewhat lackluster in my opinion). There's plenty of players who have made it clear they don't care for Influence pts., and have strategically chosen the avenue of focusing on TG's. I always go for all 3 objectives probably out of some misplaced sense of honor fueled by my sheer enjoyment doing raids. Sure, TG's are a very important motivating factor for me with Influence pts being the byproduct, but at the end of the day, what's the point of having Influence? (I ask this both philosophically and practically). If the game is to encourage acquiring influence, then having Influence should really mean something. I saw but a glimmer of that Re: Tg shop Influence requirement for items, but that was at 3k only, no? I thought I read somewhere that Influence will be more important. Yet, I'm not quite grasping how it's so.
    Shut_UpantNataNxy
  • KelvSGKelvSG Member Posts: 277
    Yeah i totally agree with @Movado if the influence doesnt really mean anything, i probably purposely reduce mine so i can easily raid TG instead. Currently i keep being match to certain same player which i cant avoid heavily injury even if i won.
  • _NoName_NoName Member Posts: 188
    I f***** hate the regular hospital times ... my last match up incl. 5 lvl 1 walkers outside the gate and three ninjas inside the gate ... oh joy!
  • AmigaAmiga Member Posts: 3,770
    I'm playing Outpost only during healing event..
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    Neil_JShut_Up
  • KelvSGKelvSG Member Posts: 277
    @Shteevie i keep searching for 20 times, that 200 TG, and all i get was 2 same enemy repeatedly ?Seriously ? there only 2 outpost i can find and someone im unable to defeat with my current gear ? (I tried at least 5 time against each 1 of them during the weekend event)
  • Neil_JNeil_J Member Posts: 1,873
    The rewards for collecting Influence have to be reflected in the very real chance of long hospital time. A couple of k TG fortnightly bonus just doesn't justify the amount of time in hospital hospital.
    It's that risk v reward scenario. The higher the risk, the better the reward should be!
    “You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only option.” (Bob Marley)
    rgerkman
  • KelvSGKelvSG Member Posts: 277
    I feel so sorry for this guy. All my search result only shown 4 guy since Sunday. Only this person i can raid without taking injury. (There 2 i cant win since i dont have gold spread to takedown all their opponent in 1 turn)

    NG, how did the matchmaking only have 4 suitable opponent for me ?
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    @KelvSG
    That is pretty weird, but you do have a very high influence rating and a very high player level. Maybe the others were all on their shield from when you beat them before?

    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
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