Super Cycle & Changes to Outposts Matchmaking - Official Discussion Thread

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  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    These systems are interconnected, and that makes actually offering 'choice' very difficult to message and to perceive. How do you know if the match you were given before was 'easy' or simply 'bad'? Without any input from the player, how do we know what level of match you want? If you are matched with an 'easy' opponent, are you willing to accept less reward? The number of implications are not small.

    We're trying to set the foundations for a proper ranking system with meaningful tiers. Influence gain should be quick with high win rates until a player reaches the appropriate power level of opponents, with some allowances for personal skill. From there, wins should trend towards 50/50, with gains slightly higher than losses, so that progress can be made. As the season nears the end, players should be very close to their actual skill rating. Especially dedicated or skillfull players should be able to reach the next tier before the end of the season.

    At the beginning of the next cycle, your lowered rating will allow another burst of quick gains and increases. The end of cycle rewards will replace or supplant the gains you would have made regaining that tier, with fewer trivial matches along the way. Benefits for having high influence should entice you to trying to keep amassing TGs, thus pushing you further up the ratings,

    All of this of course sounds great in theory, and it's what we're aiming for. But systems that allow players to tank their rating deliberately undermine it. There should never be a reward for losing, and it can be hard to iron out all those wrinkles. Watching the community react to these announcements, and then comparing to the play data, tells us a lot about the difference between intent and execution.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    IRONDee
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    @Haiyan
    Yeah, I'm hoping that this becomes less of an issue once the influence is more persistent. It should be less likely that you get matched against someone with significantly higher level defenders if you have significantly different Influence values. This is one of the things that we're trying to address, as that other player will move up past you.

    It may mean we need further adjustments after this - we don't expect a miracle instant solution - but it's intended to be a start.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    rgerkmanJacquie
  • Japes87Japes87 Member Posts: 1,399
    @Shteevie I just want to know about the higher rewards for influence tiers you mentioned and if I will be going from 4000+ influence back to 0 on Wednesday at the end of this cycle.. the reason I raided like a mad man to get to 4000 tier was because of your comment about the rewards getting improved. I'll reserve judgement on the new system after we can try it out. Thanks
  • Pain WalkerPain Walker Content Creator Posts: 2,647
    @OneLessTitan Are we still going with the " put your lowest survivors and remove tanks" strategy?

    Probably making a video!

    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/MultiPainproduction
    KaiserGrimGaelATLAS-Z
  • PoppyPoppy Member Posts: 1,146
    Just hospital times are not given in pvp
  • MadPuppyMadPuppy Member Posts: 2,831
    I'm extremely curious how this pans out. Thanks a lot @Teeceezy and @Shteevie for explaining.

    My initial feeling was kind of a "what the". But seeing the explanations, but mostly the purpose makes me very curious for the next weeks.

    Because this much is obvious to me: the old system can be manipulated to a point that it's detrimental to the outpost experience of a lot of players. This change is a start of a rebalancing. The effect cannot possibly be immediate, but as more and more matches are played the manipulative effects decrease. The cycle to October 5 is only the first round in this process, with possible adjustments during and after that cycle.

    In other words: I'll reserve judgement and go along.

    If this works for me, I should eventually start getting fights that I can actually win without (nearly) dying.
    IRONDee
  • AmigaAmiga Member Posts: 3,770
    edited September 2016
    I'm 100% positive switched-on about upcoming changes. Recently I really like new updates :) Since first bugged Outpost update every next one is even better.
    May the force be with you NG folks! @Shteevie @Teeceezy @OldGoth @Shadowkeeper Your game makes me happy every day... :heart: - I'm not drunk :wink:


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    mongo911MizTyDegreaserTeeceezy
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    edited September 2016
    @Shteevie that's a shame that you feel that way but I'm not sorry for anything I posted. You were the one to build up these upcoming changes and it doesn't address many problems still in the outposts and it sure doesn't address problems the top percentage of people playing outpost. If you feel that the opinions of someone who has not only played outposts but wears them out then that's your choice. When other people come on the forums and write that they are quitting outposts because they couldn't find push over outposts to take advantage of, I supported outpost play. These people certainly didn't get flamed for saying things like fuck these outposts or any of the other things that's commonly seen in the quitting outposts threads.

    I've obviously seen all the changes come and go through outposts and it's always been a mess when it could be so much more. Instead of giving an honest opinion I will just hijack threads from now one so that I can complain that you need to change the rural map every chance I get.

    I'll still play outposts despite yout post to me @Shteevie . It doesn't mean that the changes are positive changes or agree with them or that they address everyone's problems and not just the middle of the pack.

    Have you every wondered why after 10 cycles no one has ever made it to 8000? There's a reason for that it's because the outpost is broken. I've never gone over 7,000 but I can tell you the reason you hit a wall at 7,000 is because you can't find any more matches. If this was a trial that would be my exhibit #1.
    mongo911Annette578ceoofognnickc25[Deleted User]
  • ceoofognceoofogn Member Posts: 27
    edited September 2016
    So. If a new player comes in, builds up his outpost and has 0 influence, he can NEVER make it to Platinum III. He will reset to 0 every cycle. If you are already in Platinum tiers you have a chance to stay there. But will anyone else get there? Nope! I have to trust that NG is going to match me up better than they currently do now with this blind matching system. I can currently get my survivors to level 15 and have a walker strength of 62. Yet I get matched up with 3 level 17s with a walker strength of over 100. I can't win that raid so I choose an outpost that is more evenly matched. Awesome job NG! I am officially out of the Outpost game as I am only Gold Tier III. I won't make it to Platinum Tier III with the healing time required. I guess you will make it so we will lose our TG from raids too since that is another way to change the outposts in a negative way.
    nickc25
  • blynknzblynknz Member Posts: 1,988
    @ceoofogn are you sure.
    It says a player under platinum will never be reset. So you will keep your influence.
    The only tiers that reset are plantinum. The same as the are right now.

    If you are plat III with 5199 at the end of the cycle, you are reset to 5000.
    If you make it to plat II with 5201, then you will be reset to 5200
    Etc Etc
    MizTy
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421
    Majjaqui said:


    What doesn't make sense is that my team would engage an Outpost without knowing the enemies strength (Information gained through scouts if this were the TV show).

    To be fair, not investigating an enemy in any way shape or form is totally consistent with the TV show... Hilltop makes a deal with Rick to kill Negan's group and our fearless heroes don't even spend one night on recon which would have revealed that they were attacking/scouting one tiny outpost instead of their main stronghold, thus leading them into their current situation. So... really, 100% consistent with the show.

    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

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    IRONDeeMizTy[Deleted User]
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,562
    @Bill_ZRT I must have missed the episode where the trade good fairy restocks the trade good store every 7 hours. Or Eugene's blueprints that allow him to create infinite bullets yet only have the technology to upgrade 1 piece of armor or weapon every 24 hours. You'd think someone would have figured out how to multitask by now. It a crossbow that makes sounds. Or a silencer that sometimes goes off. Or when you find a gas can full of gas that you stockpile it (not only during the horde event).

    Please don't think I'm poking fun at you directly. More or less there are many differences between how the real world in a zombie apocalypse would work and how it works in no mans land.

    I do get what you're saying though, but not everyone lives on a rural farm which is what's going to happen. I'm not against us not choosing who we raid; I'm against raising the same thing over and over again without any variation. :)

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  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    Walker power outposts aren't usually the thing that stop me, but I do tend to bring out the better ones for 100+ levels. I range 17-19, but I know a 100+ and 19th lvl defenders is going to mean hospital time for at least one, probably more.
    On the other hand, I've been to some poorly defended dumps. The way things are now, I can roll the C, D, or E team and it's more even. That also keeps the A and B away from stupid accidents and ready for the real challenges.
  • HaiyanHaiyan Member Posts: 156
    @GrimGael good for you that you have that many sets of raiders. I for one only have only a handful of survivors, let alone those that would qualify as raiders.
    GrimGael
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421
    @DLich And this is why the internet needs some sort of sarcasm/making a joke indicator... something like a reverse italics maybe. Don't confuse me making a joke and poking fun at stupid things the characters do in the show with making an actual point about the game reflecting real life. :-P
    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    DLich
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