Repeatables - Discussion Thread (Read OP before commenting)

24

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  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    Not trying to argue, if that's how it's coming off. I just want to understand more. I see a benefit on both side. Take this week's challenge. This was posted as rewards. Top stars of 13,200 get them Michonne tokens thats an average of 660 stars per player in a guild and each mission you must score 110 stars. It takes 84 stars getting all three stars to reach level 30. You need to repeat each level 8.66 times after to obtain. This is by far a great accomplishment for any guild to get. I belong to a global top 10 guild and this is going to be challenging to get. I would like to see guilds posted who reach this reward.
  • NCDawgFanNCDawgFan Member Posts: 2,070
    edited November 2016
    8680 stars to earn the 25 Rick tokens would be an amazing accomplishment this week, and I expect that no guild will actually each it on this particular challenge and the top two reward tiers are absolutely unreachable on this challenge. You heard it here first.
  • NerfMeSidewaysNerfMeSideways Member Posts: 211
    Are you saying you are going to be disappointed if you do not reach that goal this week @NCDawgFan ?
  • MizTyMizTy Member Posts: 1,335
    Is BBQ even considered a repeatable map?
  • SebiSebi Posts: 146
    Before destroying gameplay with last update by nerfing interupt luck and dodge a skilled player could use its lvl 19 well equiped to battle his way to reach exit on some maps and reach lvl 30.All with strategic moves and intelligence. Was that an exploit? ??
    No
    I expect If you cap my lvl of survivors I can take on battle to revert luck dodge and interrupt to pre-udate.
    Another exploit is that my lvl 20 are forced to battle lvl 3 or 5 or 15. This is exploiting Me THE PLAYER. My survivors in current challange are 3 staring all stages up to lvl 23 included. 66 stars per stage. 396 stars. ONLY LVL 24 OR 25 If very lucky represent a challange. So its all reduced to grinding 23 LEVELS to play LVL 24.I feel EXPLOITED by NG.
    Repeatables gave players a reason to play as you can clearly see there is NO LOGIC to grind 3 DAYS If you already know you are LIMITED at LVL 24 and 25. Take out repeatables and high lvl players wont have a reason to play anymore. To get EXPLOITED and not get a chance to hope you can outcome lvl 24 or 25 Will eventually make This game a simple point and shoot.
    Why put reach the exit type stage that in theory should give any lvl survivor a fighting chance to reach it and then put a GATE. Its insulting. Clearly lvl 17 wont be able to battle his way against lvl 23.No GATE and a lvl 17 with good armor would have a shot.
    This is the real EXPLOIT in this game. We are just moneycows and nothing in return.
    zosonMarkWeekOne
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    edited November 2016
    I got up to level 28 on BBQ last challenge they had it, but that required full interrupt. Used two shooters and a scout and also three scouts. It was a wonderful dance. But this new combat balancing ended that ability. Per the figures provided on the forum about this week's reward they all are and or a few. How else can you obtain the 13,200 guild stars needed to get the Michonne tokens, unless what was posted about the rewards is false. I am at 419 right now. Level 25-26 are very challenging.
    NecroboogieantArtisans
  • stolenstolen Member Posts: 46
    That's mind blowing. Basically I can flash down my 57 level accout. Open new one and in a couple of weeks get those crazy stars almost free. Always thought people got those with skill and strategy and not just with endless not so expensive playing again and again. Thanks you a lot for opening my eyes @NerfMeSideways
    zosonNerfMeSidewaysMarkWeekOne
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    MadPuppy said:

    The strategy section is for discussing strategy.

    This post breaks rule 1 about discussing exploits. This post very clearly exploits a behavior to bypass the hospital by making a heavy injury cost nothing and take no time. This isn't strategy, and I've clearly outlined why.

    Nobody here has provided a reasonable justification as to why this isn't exploiting. Why is it ok to use a loophole to bypass intended behavior where if you have to flee you take a heavy injury. Anyone approaching the issue objectively immediately recognizes this as an exploit.
    RichukMarkNecroboogieTop8dogantavelardezPicVerbaubWeekOne
  • MadPuppyMadPuppy Member Posts: 2,831
    @zoson
    I feel ill equipped to work this issue out with you. I also think im not the right person for it. I do think it's fine to discuss it, including your arguments for your doubts, and like the way you've handled that so far.
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 253
    MizTy said:

    Is BBQ even considered a repeatable map?

    @MizTy
    Most definitely before the interrupt was changed.
    Richuk said:

    Never really understood the issue with repeatables, if people want to pay for gas to repeat the levels then surely that's their choice? If people don't want to spend the time to repeat levels that too is their choice. Ok I can see that the repeatables should have an element of skill, i.e. Not just repeating the same couple of moves and opening the boxes, BBQ is a good example as it was repeatable but you really did need to work the map, it wasn't just fail quit repeat until success.

    @Richuk I've been indifferent about the repeatables (could be just my availability for that week to hammer down, LOL), however, I agree with you, if there's some sort of skill element involved much like the old BBQ where your "dancing with the stars" per say, to triumph the level using a perfected trait / skill, is way more rewarding (to me and probably to others too) then just throwing in low level scouts and wait for the perfect map setup or running straight to the boxes to get 3 locks in one/two turns... (much like in Train Wreck).

    pre 2.2... Train Wreck; find a box one 1 turn or 2 and dash out, low level survivor (flee for the low gold cost to heal); here's an example from Graveyard Challenge.


    @zoson
    Sure, I'll say it, its a loophole in some of the maps, exploit if thats whats it called. Now its just a user choice to use it or not.
    Richuk
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 253
    zoson said:

    False equivalency. Buster vs Tyson is in no way similar to repeating until you get the outcome you want. Getting to RSL 30 was commonplace before they started patching all the holes that let people exploit to get there.

    Imagine two people of exactly equal skill. One is a poor college student who is on scholarship and has no money to spend on a game. Just their time. Another owns their own small business and has a healthy source of income, as well as the ability to play nearly all day as they go about their work. This exploit provides a clear and unfair advantage to small business owner in the fact that they can literally just pay to repeat over and over infinitely.

    This is nothing new, it's just another hole to be patched so that people cannot pay to win. And again that's the crux of the entire argument. Nextgames has already made their stance on exploits like this abundantly clear. They are not intended and have been systematically patched out of the game.

    I'm just pointing out that we already have precedent for what is going to happen to this exploit, and that it doesn't require any skill whatsoever. But hey if you want to waste your XP and money building up a low level team... Be my guest. I really don't care what any of you do in the game.

    @zoson
    IMO, good to see this if in fact its being worked on by NG. Brings it all back to a level playing field, game should be more about skill. This community has very clever players in all guilds, probably some of the best and passionate that I've see in the world. This is a good convo to have; and makes one think about, when you first started this game, what got you hooked? the storyline were so exciting to me, I had no idea on how to use traits back in the day, or even whats considered a good survivor.. my first guild, Soco helped me understand and my current along with some teammates whom moved onto other guilds helped me understand interrupt trait, and trait stacking.

    point is the community is awesome.

    Loopholes will be found, and game developers will continue to make patches to fix them, whether they were intended or not. Just look at Microsoft windows... shit I bet that I have a computer in my basement with Windows 95 installed on it still (it probably came with 10 CD-ROM or even several floppies).
  • NecroboogieNecroboogie Member Posts: 1,108
    So no one's ever dragged a lower level char along to get a bonus quest star to complete a team or the same with a Hero to get the benefit of their trait?

    I'm glad some people seem to have the abundance of time to fully upgrade each character and piece of equipment before doing any type of mission or challenge... but wait...It's NOT FAIR that they have that much time to play the game!! NG should limit play time per day so that everyone has the same chance at getting everything the same, and if someone can't play that day then shut down the game to make it fair to everyone. (Clarification - that was sarcasm, know some of you will need it ;) )

    I know that someone will stop playing to give all the new players a chance to catch up, since its not fair to the new players to never be able to reach high positions in the leaderboards until they've played as long as established players... (there was an example above...that poor student needs to study, attend classes, have a part time job, take care of their child....)

    I'm also profoundly glad that some people only try a challenge map once for success or failure, since repeatedly trying a map would be exploiting the setup at the beginning of the level.... although I did hear above that "Repeating missions with a highly powered up and leveled up team, then beating them without infinite rerolls of the map layout is legitimate, skillful, play" so how many times is allowed before it's exploiting?? You just repeat until you miraculously pass a mission with the same setup and suddenly it's skill??? Thanks for the clarification.

    I'll say it. Leaderboards (LB) are meaningless anyways. The player LB don't reflect current play, doesn't offer any reward, and have had many problems with actual exploits, rollbacks and not counting stars. I find it very funny when people argue that their position should be set in stone or protected when they can't or don't play... let's limit challenge play to 5x!! Who needs to play them more than that? Get your 6x 15 stars if your SKILLFUL enough to get 3 stars each of your 5 tries per map! Really??

    NG set the current Max Challenge Reward Tier at 660 stars per 20 member guild, not 200, 300 or even 400...660 and NG doesn't want or encourage repeatables? Kinda destroys the whole student/business owner example since players are unable to get that many stars without purchasing gas.. let's all petition NG to do away with stars and influence and give us all the same participation award instead!
    kryptonixMarkjavajnkieantArtisansWeekOnePic
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    The point, again, @Necroboogie is not that you shouldn't be able to keep playing the maps. It's that you shouldn't be able to bring a low level for the sole purpose of avoiding the heal timer/cost. A cost that was designed into the game that you *normally as intended* have to spend gold to speed up.

    The exploit, again, has nothing at all to do with repeating the missions. It is specifically the unintended nature of bringing a low level chump survivor to absorb the heal timer in a way that was not intended.

    You failed? You wait two hours for a heal or you pay gold to speed it up. That's how you encourage thoughtful, and strategic play. When your actions have consequence. Since day 1 that's what NML has been about, especially when deadly missions were in the game. You lose? You lose a survivor.

    By exploiting the penalty such that it no longer applies, you're removing any need for thoughtful or skillful play. It's just reroll the map until you get the favorable outcome. That, literally, has no skill involved.

    MarkNecroboogieTop8dogArtisansWeekOneVerbaub
  • NerfMeSidewaysNerfMeSideways Member Posts: 211
    stolen said:

    That's mind blowing. Basically I can flash down my 57 level accout. Open new one and in a couple of weeks get those crazy stars almost free. Always thought people got those with skill and strategy and not just with endless not so expensive playing again and again. Thanks you a lot for opening my eyes @NerfMeSideways

    Yes flush down that lvl 57 account, you don't need it @stolen especially when any player level can enter that mission.... RSL means nothing so BONUS!

    When you create your new account, I recommend levelling only 3 players max to get you to the high level playing. You will save a sh*t load of money.

  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    Exploit right here. My players are level 20, but it says I need level 26 RSL. How in the world does that happen?
    Markant
  • NerfMeSidewaysNerfMeSideways Member Posts: 211
    Good job @avelardez ... yes the 5 second healing events were alot of fun, I agree! :smiley:
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    Fighters been healing since last night, 10pm. Won't be done till 8pm tonight before I can try again. Talk about cost! I have had hours to think about tactics but it seems like the game is plotting against me. Lol.
    Mark
  • NerfMeSidewaysNerfMeSideways Member Posts: 211
    You have very nice survivors @avelardez ;)
    avelardez
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    edited November 2016
    I just kill everything they put in front of me. Learned from the real Slayer!
    SebiMarkNerfMeSideways
  • NerfMeSidewaysNerfMeSideways Member Posts: 211
    @Sebi how is discussing this strategy destroying the game? Can you please elaborate?
  • SebiSebi Posts: 146
    Better stop playing the game. Seems that NG is wanting us to quit.Put us on a leash. But please keep buying their weapons and bundles. Make them rich. It's illogical what they are doing but this is the stupid reality of this game. They still dont understand. Petty.
    MarkNerfMeSidewaysWeekOne
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,259
    5sec healing was the best. They should have it more often. Saw some vicious fighters up there.
    NerfMeSidewaysSebi
  • blynknzblynknz Member Posts: 1,988
    I don't think its a cheat or an exploit, but I think the game stucture should change.

    1 - Why do the walkers stop at level "30", let them keep increasing.
    2 - Why is there a sudden drop off of % at level +4. Have them slowly decrease over time.
    All traits & % rolls could drop - Dodge, Luck, Interrupt, Critical Chance etc etc. This makes more sense how they want people the be "more afraid" at those levels.
    It would also stop people using level 9 survivors for a RSL 30.
    Mark
  • MarkMark Member Posts: 253
    blynknz said:

    I don't think its a cheat or an exploit, but I think the game stucture should change.

    1 - Why do the walkers stop at level "30", let them keep increasing.
    2 - Why is there a sudden drop off of % at level +4. Have them slowly decrease over time.
    All traits & % rolls could drop - Dodge, Luck, Interrupt, Critical Chance etc etc. This makes more sense how they want people the be "more afraid" at those levels.
    It would also stop people using level 9 survivors for a RSL 30.

    amen brother. (but thats just my opinion)
    blynknzRichukVerbaub
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