@Shteevie - do you understand we are not upset about the bug fix, but upset that the bug fix happened 3 days after a purchase??? Every single person who bought that bundle, bought it because of the last month of use of the rare one! Had you fixed the bug before you offered the bundle then no one would be blowing up this thread? What is so difficult for you to understand here? It's not complicated. This was classic bait and switch. We aren't stupid. Get google and apple to issue full refunds!
This is clearly a classic example of "bait and switch".
-You assume that we had foreknowledge of the bug before we sold the weapon. This is incorrect.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
I get the frustration over the Reckonin'. I purchased the bundle and while I don't agree with most of the comments out there, I understand where people are coming from. Annoyed and frustrated, we've all been there.
What I don't understand are the attacks on the two guys communicating with us the best they can. Just a few months ago we were under a purchasing freeze and the discussion board was filled with angry comments that were never being responded to. Now we are part of a community where we have been invited to offer up ideas to help move the game in the direction that we would prefer and we are not only being better informed, but actually getting responses to our comments and frustrations.
Be frustrated, get your refund, but remember we've come a long way in the last few months!
@Shteevie and @Teeceezy thanks for keeping us in the know, and the line of communication open no matter how ugly it gets.
This is clearly a classic example of "bait and switch".
-You assume that we had foreknowledge of the bug before we sold the weapon. This is incorrect.
The timeline is pretty revealing. We've played with the rare one for almost a month. 3 days after you sale an upgraded one, then the bug is found. My personal opinion is that wouldn't stand up in a court of law. (I'm not suing over 15 bucks obviously, but the timeline of events is pretty interesting )
> @Shteevie said:
> This is clearly a classic example of "bait and switch".
>
> -You assume that we had foreknowledge of the bug before we sold the weapon. This is incorrect.
It is just hard to believe @Shteevie that y'all dunno about reckoning. It's all over the forum for over a month even with videos etc. selling it big at the shop then rippin us off the next day. Dude NOT COOL.
Problem about the system is yall only listen within your circles. Accept your mistake(s) and NOT FIX IT WITH ANOTHER MISTAKE NG ;then let players/customers suffering for it.
But I CERTAINLY do not believe NG had no clue about the body shot issue for an entire month after the original Reckoning came out...... come now NG ;-)
My suggestion if you don't want to refund thousands of dollars is keep the body shot immunity but give the thing shitty base damage, but then also allow it to hit zombies that are not in direct line of sight.... then it would be much more situational and a bit of a utility weapon, and much better balanced.
-Sorry to disappoint you, but the team has either been heads-down over the challenge rework or on vacation for most of the last month. We were unaware of the total lack of bodyshots until this morning. Consider the following: * There was no legendary version of the weapon available, and players tell us that they only use, look at, upgrade, or care about legendary weapons. * Videos posted that included use of the weapon also used it to burn / kite walkers [an expected and reasonable tactic] and were presented in discussions about completely unrelated topics. No mention of the weapon behavior was made in those threads. * Players in this and other threads repeatedly claim that they had no idea about the specialness of the weapon, and I cannot recall a mention of it being bodyshot-proof having been made on the forums until now.
We never thought that a previous version of the weapon would be a viable end-game weapon, and so assumed that it would not be used this way. It is surely on us to find issues like this in dev and test, and I am not trying to say that we aren't at fault for that. We screwed that part up.
But when we make screw ups, we have to fix them.
The ability of the weapon to hit out-of-sight enemies will be coming in a future patch. I think the code is already written and is awaiting test and release with the challenge rework.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
What is with all the analogies? Some are really really bad much less why do we need analogies to describe this huge mistake?
The green molovtov cocktail was called the reckonin and didn't have body shots. It doesnt take a bunch of analogies to understand why people thought that an item called "the reckonin " would be similar to another item called "the reckonin." We don't need any more Nike shoe analogies or any other ones.
-Not all weapons for the same class at the same level are intended to have the same damage. There is no bug regarding the damage of the weapon.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
Because of NG's record of selling an item then nerfing the attributes, I will go back to playing with only what can be earned in the game. No more real money will be put into this game. If you can't stand behind the products you put out, I will not risk it by purchasing them. NG: I don't believe for one minute you didn't know about the "no bodyshots" for this weapon. You guys analyze everything, something that big would not get past you.
From my perspective in the guild council, I don't believe they were aware of the issue when it was offered for sale. I believe they were first informed of it last night (u.s. Edt). With that said, I get why people are upset and think NG should find a way to better appease those who purchased the item and are upset with the change. I only hope that is their plan for tomorrow in Finland.
This was classic bait and switch. We aren't stupid. Get google and apple to issue full refunds!
-I think a great many people are upset about the bug fix. The responses here are varied, and no one person can speak for the whole player base.
"Bait and Switch" implies intent. There was never any intent to sell an item that we knew was broken and then change it afterwards. If we had advertised a "no bodyshots!" feature, we would be obligated to leave it in place; that it was unknown to us until a certain time does not remove the need for the bug to be fixed. I agree that there are players that wouldn't have bought it if the bug were not existent. Those players have access to refunds through the same channels that they used to pay for the item. I have no input on refund policy for Next or for the app stores.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
If you can't do refunds, why @Teeceezy suggested to us that we should write an in-game support ticket for a refund?
And there is an other thing i would like to discuss, how is it possible that our reckonins do bodyshots to higher leveled walkers and so they do less damage now with their explosion and flame, but don't we get the same "flame damage" from level 4 "burning walkers" as level 24 burning ones? It's really weird that you can't fix that for months, but a fun thing we play like the reckonin you can "fix" within a few hours and hurt us.
-Re: refunds and support tickets It's a misstatement on our part, for sure. The goal of the blanket replacement weapon for those that bought the under-powered one was an attempt to cut off the need for the players to make more tickets about the issue when we couldn't help them. I'm certain that we have a better understanding of what support can and cannot do now that we have been involved in this issue.
Re: 'Burning' states and balance Survivors and enemies who have burning lose HP as a function of the victim's max HP, not of the level of the weapon or enemy that applied the burning state. This has always been the case, is not seen as a bug, and therefore is not marked for change. I'm sure you would be disappointed if the molotov's charge attack caused less burning damage to level 30 walkers...
@Shteevie i am really tired of to argue with you. Always i try to speak with you, you don't want to make a compromise. I just want my money back or something else to compensate my anger, because and like i said a few times now, i feel tricked by you, i feel really bad tricked by you!!! And as you can see in this thread, i am not the only one who feels same like that.
Be wise and compensate your paying players instead of hinting that your paying players may be fraudulent here!
What i should do now as an Android User? I feel tricked twice now, cause some Apple Users have two legendary reckonins now for free, cause they got their refund. That is fraudulent for me.
-It's disappointing that players will make purchases in the game and then demand a refund immediately, even when there is no problem or misunderstanding with the items that they bought. That is fraudulent, as well.
I just want a refund, it's a normal process in every business! I am not a scammer! We are no scammers!
Julia - "the puppet master - the secret leader of the council!!!" =D
Well, NG has stated their position. It is obvious to me that it is set in stone. I appreciate Shteevee's direct honesty on their position. Therefore I am presenting my official position.
I cannot accept that I purchased an item (which is a law binding contract) and then the item I purchased was altered without my agreement. I take this as a breach of contract (which applies to all sales) and I take it seriously.
Since this cannot be handled at the lowest level, I am unfortunately put in the position to reach out to the Better Business Bureau and make a formal complaint. Being that it affects many people, I trust they will handle the situation accordingly. If not, I will continue pursuing my legal options until I feel that the situation is resolved in a way that makes me whole.
As a matter of record, I officially decline the offer of 1 minute gas times in lieu of my origial purchase and contract. Please remove the gas option from my account.
This has been a disturbing matter of events and it is with a heavy heart that I need to protect my morals and money in this way. I have spent 100s of dollars on this game (feel free to confirm NG). Anyone who wishes to know the progress of my complaint can PM me. I will also post my letter to the BBB if so requested.
Thank you for developing a great game NG. I just wish you made better judgements when managing this situation.
@Shteevie I understand that you are patiently trying to point out reason here. The problem is that the "bait and switch" has repeatedly happened before so NG has little credibility that it didn't happen again now. If this had been the first time this issue arose, I suspect people would be believing you. As it is, people are upset that a) NG is doing it again and b) they fell for yet again.
I don't know why people still buy weapons. I honestly don't.
> @Shteevie said:
> The base damage still needs to be addressed
>
> -Not all weapons for the same class at the same level are intended to have the same damage. There is no bug regarding the damage of the weapon.
We know this but when the reckoning hits less walkers then other assault weapons for even less damGe what is the point of using it??
The green one was doing more damage then stated that's why it was being used
@Sekushi I have been browsing the forums for months and never once saw a post about no bodyshot with the reckoning and was unaware of that feature until I started reading this post this morning. I picked up the rare when it was offered but never got around to upgrading it so never used it and thus never saw the no bodyshot feature. But, to be honest don't really think I would have noticed it anyway since I mostly play challenge and raid and rarely have matches where bodyshots come on into effect.
So to sum up I can easily see ho NG failed to notice this and fixed the bug once it was found. I don't understand why everyone wants to suspect NG of corrupt behavior versus poor testing and implementation; I.e., the curse of every software developer.
@Shteevie i mentioned the thing of not having body shots also but did anybody thought really that this should be? Many of us know the game since the beginning and we all get nerved in this time on and on for game balancing. And now everybody complain because of fixing a clear bug. I didnt bought that legendary because of its lack of bodyshots but because of another way to play to have fun to see things happen.. And in other subforums there re discussions ungoing which are ridiculous and somewhat crazy like in a kindergarten - some are complaining that a few person get two nerved molotov? IMO i have to apologize for some of them who behave like childs. There are other issues which bother me more. Please introduce the constant possibility to swap tomatoes against whatever (tg, token, phones) because many of us are maxed out for a while.
As a matter of record, I officially decline the offer of 1 minute gas times in lieu of my origial purchase and contract. Please remove the gas option from my account.
-It is not possible to turn these features on and off for individual players. There is no "opt in process" for live events in the game.
Your best course of action to be "made whole" is to contact the app store that has your payment information on file and records of your transactions. Name-dropping voluntary membership agencies without legal backing, jurisdiction, or proficiency in virtual goods won't have any affect on the app store's ability to process your refund.
@morbis02 The point of the weapon is that it looks goofy, and it's fun to set walkers on fire. We thought we got that across in the Talking Dead collaboration. We never intended to sneak in the best weapon in the game that unbalances the end-game content and violates the free/paid player ethics of the company.
@Julialicious I understand your frustration and I am not standing in the way of the resolution of that frustration. I have no way to affect the chances that you will or won't get a refund. I hope that your app store is able to help you. I agree that you and most of the players who bought the weapon are not scammers.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
Edit: Having discussed this again, no refunds for this bundle will be given out as the weapon within the bundle is working as intended and as advertised.
But not necessarily working as it was when purchased.
> @Shteevie said:
> As a matter of record, I officially decline the offer of 1 minute gas times in lieu of my origial purchase and contract. Please remove the gas option from my account.
>
>
>
> -It is not possible to turn these features on and off for individual players. There is no "opt in process" for live events in the game.
>
> Your best course of action to be "made whole" is to contact the app store that has your payment information on file and records of your transactions. Name-dropping voluntary membership agencies without legal backing, jurisdiction, or proficiency in virtual goods won't have any affect on the app store's ability to process your refund.
>
> @morbis02
> The point of the weapon is that it looks goofy, and it's fun to set walkers on fire. We thought we got that across in the Talking Dead collaboration. We never intended to sneak in the best weapon in the game that unbalances the end-game content and violates the free/paid player ethics of the company.
>
> @Julialicious
> I understand your frustration and I am not standing in the way of the resolution of that frustration. I have no way to affect the chances that you will or won't get a refund. I hope that your app store is able to help you. I agree that you and most of the players who bought the weapon are not scammers.
I appreciate the advice Shteevee. I am going to exhaust all my options at the lowest level to include the BBB. I have reached out for a refund through the app store with no response yet. If the BBB is unable to assist, I will move up the chain.
This is not a personal attack on you, but I have reached out to a few parties and I am fully aware of my rights. No offense to you or NG, but I will pursue my options accordingly with any entity necessary. The fact that it is "virtual goods" is of no bearing. It is a breach of contract in my (and others with experience in this field's) opinion.
I learned my lesson with purchasing weapons from the store so at least I gained experience from this. I'll let the system work this issue out from here on out.
Then please stop attacking our purchases be causes that's as uncivilised as it gets,.. You keep saying you fixed a problem,.. But you haven't @Shteevie youv changed a weapon we purchased,.. To something we wouldn't purchase,. If you truly want to fix the problem buff it back or pay refunds out,.. It's not rocket science,.. Do you not care about your company's reputation? And as for the name dropping comment,.. We'll see if it's just name dropping,. I fully intend to report your company to the uks trading standards,.. And I fully intend to try to get your policy's mentioned on the rogue traders section of the bbc tv program called watchdogs,.. So when several cameras start appearing outside your offices,.. Just think back to name dropping,.
And @zbot maybe if shteevies replies didn't sound so filled with contempt,. Ignorance and down right "there's nowt you can do about it" perhaps people would calm Alittle and not be so damn angry at the rip off that's just happened to our pockets,.. Yet again,..
Comments
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
What I don't understand are the attacks on the two guys communicating with us the best they can. Just a few months ago we were under a purchasing freeze and the discussion board was filled with angry comments that were never being responded to. Now we are part of a community where we have been invited to offer up ideas to help move the game in the direction that we would prefer and we are not only being better informed, but actually getting responses to our comments and frustrations.
Be frustrated, get your refund, but remember we've come a long way in the last few months!
@Shteevie and @Teeceezy thanks for keeping us in the know, and the line of communication open no matter how ugly it gets.
> This is clearly a classic example of "bait and switch".
>
> -You assume that we had foreknowledge of the bug before we sold the weapon. This is incorrect.
The base damage still needs to be addressed
Merged here for purpose of keeping things central.
Links to threads that are useful for beginners (and in some cases even for veterans)
Problem about the system is yall only listen within your circles. Accept your mistake(s) and NOT FIX IT WITH ANOTHER MISTAKE NG ;then let players/customers suffering for it.
* There was no legendary version of the weapon available, and players tell us that they only use, look at, upgrade, or care about legendary weapons.
* Videos posted that included use of the weapon also used it to burn / kite walkers [an expected and reasonable tactic] and were presented in discussions about completely unrelated topics. No mention of the weapon behavior was made in those threads.
* Players in this and other threads repeatedly claim that they had no idea about the specialness of the weapon, and I cannot recall a mention of it being bodyshot-proof having been made on the forums until now.
We never thought that a previous version of the weapon would be a viable end-game weapon, and so assumed that it would not be used this way. It is surely on us to find issues like this in dev and test, and I am not trying to say that we aren't at fault for that. We screwed that part up.
But when we make screw ups, we have to fix them.
The ability of the weapon to hit out-of-sight enemies will be coming in a future patch. I think the code is already written and is awaiting test and release with the challenge rework.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
The green molovtov cocktail was called the reckonin and didn't have body shots. It doesnt take a bunch of analogies to understand why people thought that an item called "the reckonin " would be similar to another item called "the reckonin." We don't need any more Nike shoe analogies or any other ones.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
"Bait and Switch" implies intent. There was never any intent to sell an item that we knew was broken and then change it afterwards. If we had advertised a "no bodyshots!" feature, we would be obligated to leave it in place; that it was unknown to us until a certain time does not remove the need for the bug to be fixed. I agree that there are players that wouldn't have bought it if the bug were not existent. Those players have access to refunds through the same channels that they used to pay for the item. I have no input on refund policy for Next or for the app stores.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
@Shteevie i am really tired of to argue with you. Always i try to speak with you, you don't want to make a compromise. I just want my money back or something else to compensate my anger, because and like i said a few times now, i feel tricked by you, i feel really bad tricked by you!!! And as you can see in this thread, i am not the only one who feels same like that.
Be wise and compensate your paying players instead of hinting that your paying players may be fraudulent here! I just want a refund, it's a normal process in every business! I am not a scammer! We are no scammers!
Retired Leader of Sisters Family
I cannot accept that I purchased an item (which is a law binding contract) and then the item I purchased was altered without my agreement. I take this as a breach of contract (which applies to all sales) and I take it seriously.
Since this cannot be handled at the lowest level, I am unfortunately put in the position to reach out to the Better Business Bureau and make a formal complaint. Being that it affects many people, I trust they will handle the situation accordingly. If not, I will continue pursuing my legal options until I feel that the situation is resolved in a way that makes me whole.
As a matter of record, I officially decline the offer of 1 minute gas times in lieu of my origial purchase and contract. Please remove the gas option from my account.
This has been a disturbing matter of events and it is with a heavy heart that I need to protect my morals and money in this way. I have spent 100s of dollars on this game (feel free to confirm NG). Anyone who wishes to know the progress of my complaint can PM me. I will also post my letter to the BBB if so requested.
Thank you for developing a great game NG. I just wish you made better judgements when managing this situation.
Respectfully,
Vshield50
I don't know why people still buy weapons. I honestly don't.
> The base damage still needs to be addressed
>
> -Not all weapons for the same class at the same level are intended to have the same damage. There is no bug regarding the damage of the weapon.
We know this but when the reckoning hits less walkers then other assault weapons for even less damGe what is the point of using it??
The green one was doing more damage then stated that's why it was being used
So to sum up I can easily see ho NG failed to notice this and fixed the bug once it was found. I don't understand why everyone wants to suspect NG of corrupt behavior versus poor testing and implementation; I.e., the curse of every software developer.
And in other subforums there re discussions ungoing which are ridiculous and somewhat
crazy like in a kindergarten - some are complaining that a few person get two nerved molotov? IMO i have to apologize for some of them who behave like childs. There are other issues which bother me more. Please introduce the constant possibility to swap tomatoes against whatever (tg, token, phones) because many of us are maxed out for a while.
Your best course of action to be "made whole" is to contact the app store that has your payment information on file and records of your transactions. Name-dropping voluntary membership agencies without legal backing, jurisdiction, or proficiency in virtual goods won't have any affect on the app store's ability to process your refund.
@morbis02
The point of the weapon is that it looks goofy, and it's fun to set walkers on fire. We thought we got that across in the Talking Dead collaboration. We never intended to sneak in the best weapon in the game that unbalances the end-game content and violates the free/paid player ethics of the company.
@Julialicious
I understand your frustration and I am not standing in the way of the resolution of that frustration. I have no way to affect the chances that you will or won't get a refund. I hope that your app store is able to help you. I agree that you and most of the players who bought the weapon are not scammers.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
Please keep the rules of the forum in mind when posting.
Feeling Lost, Click Here!
> As a matter of record, I officially decline the offer of 1 minute gas times in lieu of my origial purchase and contract. Please remove the gas option from my account.
>
>
>
> -It is not possible to turn these features on and off for individual players. There is no "opt in process" for live events in the game.
>
> Your best course of action to be "made whole" is to contact the app store that has your payment information on file and records of your transactions. Name-dropping voluntary membership agencies without legal backing, jurisdiction, or proficiency in virtual goods won't have any affect on the app store's ability to process your refund.
>
> @morbis02
> The point of the weapon is that it looks goofy, and it's fun to set walkers on fire. We thought we got that across in the Talking Dead collaboration. We never intended to sneak in the best weapon in the game that unbalances the end-game content and violates the free/paid player ethics of the company.
>
> @Julialicious
> I understand your frustration and I am not standing in the way of the resolution of that frustration. I have no way to affect the chances that you will or won't get a refund. I hope that your app store is able to help you. I agree that you and most of the players who bought the weapon are not scammers.
I appreciate the advice Shteevee. I am going to exhaust all my options at the lowest level to include the BBB. I have reached out for a refund through the app store with no response yet. If the BBB is unable to assist, I will move up the chain.
This is not a personal attack on you, but I have reached out to a few parties and I am fully aware of my rights. No offense to you or NG, but I will pursue my options accordingly with any entity necessary. The fact that it is "virtual goods" is of no bearing. It is a breach of contract in my (and others with experience in this field's) opinion.
I learned my lesson with purchasing weapons from the store so at least I gained experience from this. I'll let the system work this issue out from here on out.
Do you not care about your company's reputation? And as for the name dropping comment,.. We'll see if it's just name dropping,. I fully intend to report your company to the uks trading standards,.. And I fully intend to try to get your policy's mentioned on the rogue traders section of the bbc tv program called watchdogs,.. So when several cameras start appearing outside your offices,.. Just think back to name dropping,.
And @zbot maybe if shteevies replies didn't sound so filled with contempt,. Ignorance and down right "there's nowt you can do about it" perhaps people would calm Alittle and not be so damn angry at the rip off that's just happened to our pockets,.. Yet again,..