@KaLi all of my favourite traits were modified and that is sad. I believe maybe these were done because they were trying to fix the LLS 'strategy'? It almost feels like I am being punished because of this 'strategy'.
Why should I invest in building up my survivor to feel like a badass when a lvl 1-9 survivor doesn't get obliterated by a lvl 30 walker? It should be instant death and why it's not, I don't understand. I don't have 20+ years experience in gaming industry and I am able to see that that is wrong.
The wrestler trait "was" one of my favourite traits before NG decided to modify it. I didn't know if I was going to make it out of that struggle. Now, I just need to put my survivor in front of the fatty (strategically) and I know for sure it will die. That's not a challenge, that's easy and I have to pay gold to heal.
Imagine if it's a lvl 5 survivor, it's FREE. No wonder it's fun... People can play without consequences.
Anyhow, it is a very sensitive subject to talk about and I believe that if this strategy continues, it will be detrimental to the spirit of the game.
Wrestler trait is fine in my book, its WAI its the LLS that is against the spirt of the game and against how the games intended to be played.
Ultimately its the fault of NG, its a design flaw in their code one of many poorly designed features in this game but thats a discussion of its own.
Personal view is they will do nothing about it and I'm basing this on their unwillingness or inability to reset the leaderbaords after two previous incidents which make the score boards joke.
@Verbaub I think you nailed it. Termi and I had level appropriate survivors and weapons when we were playing with our 100% interrupt for 20 mins to kill one fatty.
NG found out about the LLS Strategy and tried to fix it.
I believe mistakes were made and the wrong people got punished for it by nerfing 100% interrupt, etc.
We have had to adjust to the nerfs but I cannot accept that nothing will be done to this LLS 'strategy' to avoid healing costs to gain stars on the leaderboards.
All of that is wrong and is detrimental to the spirit of this game.
Lots of uneducated comments here about LLS that clearly don't understand the mechanics of using them. I have one lev 8,9 and 10 scouts and frankly it's rare that I use them as a f2p player. LLS don't make the level easier to pass, actually requires more skill because a max level survivor can take a few hits and still live where the LLS die on the second hit. So what that on the couple levels where you can use them you get free heal time. The skill required to use them is much higher than max level survivors.
@WeekOne - you pushed super hard to get the changes in 2.4 because you felt it would give you more of an advantage. imho has ruined the game for me as a f2p player. Before 2.4 I could compete with high level paying players and now there is no way I can unless I pay. Do you know why you're losing your leaderboard position? It's because you've been out spent. The people you called out in this thread spent a lot more money on gold and gas than you did, not because of LLS. I've seen videos on how some were doing it and frankly it was done by spending a lot of gold. This was the game changed you were so supportive of before 2.4 dropped, no need to make a big deal over it now that you realized it didn't work out in your favor.
Note - this was not intended to be a personal attack so I hope you didn't take it as such. If you really want to make the game fair, how about you campaign to change the game back to before 2.4 where f2p players could actually compete
Since 2.4 update, LLS strategy doesn't really give that much benefit. It might help you get 1-star on selected missions, but ultimately, you still need to get 1-star on all missions before you get the bonus.
You don't use this techniques until your HLS fail, so getting 2 or 3 extra stars in a total of 1000+ is not really a game changer. Unlike the 50% hunter event ! How awesome was that !
And everyone can use the LLS technique .... well, everyone except veteran players that upgraded their radio towers beyond lvl 7 and didn't keep any low level survivors:) lol
From a 'pure game' point of view, sure, I agree, a lvl 5 survivor shouldn't be able to do the same as a lvl 20. But NG have repeatedly said 'this is the way it is' (more or less). So ok, use if you can and looking forward to see some fixes of the other issues raised (like the growing gap between F2P and P2P ?!)
Just my opinion .. not worth anyone getting upset/crazy about
Seem to remember back in the day wrestler trait would only keep you waiting in struggle until other survivors could kill the geek and rescue your struggling player. I was please when I saw it change to % chance to kill opponent on your turn. I thing the trait was worthless then and I like it now, I hope they don't change it. I have tried low level strategy a handfull of times with one scout, so I dont use it much at all but I dont see the need to take that feature away to anger so many to satisfy so few. Not good business to react to every bit of fairness fuss. Just one mans opinion here.
@wazzujoel Obviously, you don't know me so for you to state that it was more of an advantage to me is laughable.
Other players are smart too and we recognized a flaw to a game and brought it to NG's attention.
You can try to blame me for all the changes being made or you can look at the "real picture" and see that the changes that are being made are not my fault but the fault of the ones abusing this fundamental flaw to the game.
Okay, here is one thing I don't get... Even if you manage to finish one or two maps per challenge with LLS you would still have to do 4 without to advance to the next round. So what is the point in complaining? I really don't get it...
As a FtP player that still has subpar gear for most of my survivors I think that Shine A Light was one of the easier maps of the last challenge and Terminus wasn't the hardest either. Woodbury and Hilltop were much harder. At some point they became unbeatable for me. And I still could do Shine A Light without the use of LLS at that point. So I guess for your standard player this all doesn't make much sense.
Thing is they already nerfed interrupt, they now force us to finish all 6 maps to even advance (no chance to skip the maps you hate or can't finish anymore at some point) - what next? A nerf of the wrestler trait, it seems...
What after that? Shall our guys start shooting marshmallows lest anyone gets hurt? Only sugar free vegan non GMO versions of course.
I'd rather have them fix the Freemen, streamline the challenge map difficulties like they promised to (no more maps being the bottleneck), add rewards for the top members of a guild (that would be awesome), improve the guilds (chat, maybe a trade system... So many things could actually be done), weapon swap, outpost defender swap if wanting to use a survivor for a mission, new story missions... I could go on...
This LLS "problem" affects how many of the players? I imagine it's a teeny tiny minority if anything...
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@WeekOne - You are right in that I don't know you personally, I'm just basing my comments on all the pro 2.4 discussion you had before the update. I'm not blaming you for 2.4, I'm just saying you were NG's #1 cheerleader on this forum for it... and now you've flip flopped because 2.4 didn't work out in your favor. That's my perspective anyways. Cheers
@jaden makes some great points here about having to finish all 6 rounds to advance in the new challenge system. LLS can help you pull through maybe 1-2 maps (1 star) but what about the others??
If this was pre 2.4 then I can understand how LLS can be a larger problem.
However like @jaden said I think NG already compromise and did so much to close this gap by making us complete all 6 rounds before advancing.
@wazzujoel why are we talking about my position on the leaderboards? Please stay on topic and stop with the personal attacks. If I cared about my position, I would have gotten way more stars. Anyone who knows me knows that I can go harder if I want to.
EDIT: Also my opinions on this thread are on topic which is LLS loophole, not about the new challenge rework. I support @Putchuco 's plea to NG!
@stuffnthangs when you said people taking stabs at eachother I thought of this. Hope everyone gets a laugh and remembers shanking eachother metaphorically over a game isn't cool.
Say no to shanking.
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The only reason that players use low level survivors is to reduce the healing time. This can easily be fixed by setting the time to heal to the player level and not the survivor level. Thus if a level 58 player takes a level 6 survivor into a mission and gets a struggle they get the standard 2 hours of healing after but if a player level 12 takes that same level 6 survivor and gets into a struggle that survivor has a much shorter healing time. This keeps it fair for low level players while closing the loophole for higher level veterans.
You can still use your low level survivor but whatever advantage they had is gone so you might as well use the high level one.
I'm just going to echo others on this and say that it's obviously not how the game was intended to be played and goes against the spirit of fair play. While the current challenge system limits its effectiveness the damage has already been done.
Why can't people just play their own game and stop worrying so much about everyone else's? Everyone has the same chance to call survivors and grind hours and hours for low level gear .. if this was an exploit, it would have been removed. It's not a secret and NG has known about it for a long time.. this isn't a knock on you @Putchuco , I do have respect for you and some of your guildies .. there are just some others in this thread who seem to want to fight every part of this game and leverage positions of power into trying to find some kind of advantage when their skills can't keep up. A whole lotta "i'm taking my ball and going home" lol its laughable
@WeekOne - you are arguing for NG to nerf LLS such that it could make the game "fair". LLS do not make the game unfair nor give anyone an advantage; I know because I have one scout each with levels 8/9/10. If you think LLS would give your game an advantage (it won't) then by all means spend big bucks to buy radios and get your own. Even with a max radio tower you can get level 9s which is almost free heal times.
If your true interest was making the game "fair" to all then you would realize that LLS isn't the biggest cause of an uneven playing field, but the biggest cause of an uneven playing field is 2.4 update which was a update that is "whoever spends more, scores more". I'll say it again... it's not a lack of LLS that is affecting your score but you need to spend more money in a post 2.4 update world.
Ok I'll steer back on course. Here is part of the original post: "we understand NG is looking into this, and I would like to emphasize that this loophole is very annoying. Players without low-lvl survivors cannot go back and re-create the same 'strategy', and it cannot be in the interest of the game or fair to all other players."
Point 1 It's very annoying. Why is it annoying to someone what someone else decides to do in the game. It's their game not yours. Seems like insecurity Point 2 Without low-lvl survivors cannot go back and re-create the same 'strategy. This is a false statement. I've already stated just this morning I pulled a level 9 Legendary.scout. I'm maxed. So everyone has this chance. Point 3 it cannot be in the interest of the game or fair to all players? What is the interest of the game? To combine survivors and their special traits to advance in the game. Fair to all players? Already proven that every single player as it stands today can choose to test this out. And it's already been proven that you cannot advance with this method alone. Is it shady, perhaps. But if they have fun doing it who is anyone to take that away
So again why do people want to legislate their method of playing to how others play? And cry It's not fair. I have no skin in this game, but this is what erks me. People wine and complain because they don't have what others do, or they can't keep up with the Jonses and cry foul, and wine its not fair.
Just like countless other examples there will be unintended consequences
Helpful tip- if you want low level survivors (note I don't even use mine anymore) then spend radios on the single pull instead of in 5 or 15 chunks. 5 and 15 calls just give high star survivors and with LLS the traits are a total don't care. Note if you waste radios to get LLS, you'll realize quickly that they are not much of an advantage in update 2.4. Don't complain to me that they suck
@wazzujoel I see you are a member of DTP and clearly you will defend the LLS 'strategy' and that is OK. I will say it again: I am not responsible for all of the nerfs. I believe the LLS 'strategy' to be an exploit to a fundamental flaw to the game that is currently being abused and I will say it on a public forum.
This exploit has a negative impact on the "spirit of the game" and is very damaging to the gaming community. It is in the hands of NG to decide how they handle this issue.
I hope they do take this plea very seriously and make the necessary adjustments for all of their players, not just a few guilds.
I don't see the point in this thread. LLS are available for everyone in this game. Even lvl 58 players. The tactics are well spread (thx to weekone). So why do I see so many crybabies? Farm lls instead of spending hours in this forum ... lls complaints are so annoying. Should I complain about big money spenders too? Big money spenders have an advantage to f2p. So should we ban p2p because it's unfair?
@JesterRadics I raided you and ate the cookies and took your TG , I left the good whisky and did the dishes on the way out , thanks for being a respectful outposter
@WeekOne - I fail to see what my guild has anything to do with it. I was a member of Trinity for 9 months and a member of DTP for 3 months. I'm well aware of LLS strategy and before the 2.4 update it was quite the advantage that I regularly used. After 2.4, not worth the hassle. LLS can help on maybe 1/6 or 2/6 maps if you are lucky (only race to finish ones basically). The other 5/6 or 4/6 maps that you have to beat to advance to the next level???? No way you could use LLS. Don't you get that? I've seen videos on how players much better then i am are getting past levels. It's not with LLS. It's with very high level survivors with traits I never thought to use together and spending obscene amounts of gold to heal. I can't compete.
Comments
Why should I invest in building up my survivor to feel like a badass when a lvl 1-9 survivor doesn't get obliterated by a lvl 30 walker? It should be instant death and why it's not, I don't understand. I don't have 20+ years experience in gaming industry and I am able to see that that is wrong.
The wrestler trait "was" one of my favourite traits before NG decided to modify it. I didn't know if I was going to make it out of that struggle. Now, I just need to put my survivor in front of the fatty (strategically) and I know for sure it will die. That's not a challenge, that's easy and I have to pay gold to heal.
Imagine if it's a lvl 5 survivor, it's FREE. No wonder it's fun... People can play without consequences.
Anyhow, it is a very sensitive subject to talk about and I believe that if this strategy continues, it will be detrimental to the spirit of the game.
Thanks for reading!
Ultimately its the fault of NG, its a design flaw in their code one of many poorly designed features in this game but thats a discussion of its own.
Personal view is they will do nothing about it and I'm basing this on their unwillingness or inability to reset the leaderbaords after two previous incidents which make the score boards joke.
NG found out about the LLS Strategy and tried to fix it.
I believe mistakes were made and the wrong people got punished for it by nerfing 100% interrupt, etc.
We have had to adjust to the nerfs but I cannot accept that nothing will be done to this LLS 'strategy' to avoid healing costs to gain stars on the leaderboards.
All of that is wrong and is detrimental to the spirit of this game.
Dont make me come back here again.
Thanks for the comments.
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@WeekOne - you pushed super hard to get the changes in 2.4 because you felt it would give you more of an advantage. imho has ruined the game for me as a f2p player. Before 2.4 I could compete with high level paying players and now there is no way I can unless I pay. Do you know why you're losing your leaderboard position? It's because you've been out spent. The people you called out in this thread spent a lot more money on gold and gas than you did, not because of LLS. I've seen videos on how some were doing it and frankly it was done by spending a lot of gold. This was the game changed you were so supportive of before 2.4 dropped, no need to make a big deal over it now that you realized it didn't work out in your favor.
Note - this was not intended to be a personal attack so I hope you didn't take it as such. If you really want to make the game fair, how about you campaign to change the game back to before 2.4 where f2p players could actually compete
You don't use this techniques until your HLS fail, so getting 2 or 3 extra stars in a total of 1000+ is not really a game changer. Unlike the 50% hunter event ! How awesome was that !
And everyone can use the LLS technique .... well, everyone except veteran players that upgraded their radio towers beyond lvl 7 and didn't keep any low level survivors:) lol
From a 'pure game' point of view, sure, I agree, a lvl 5 survivor shouldn't be able to do the same as a lvl 20. But NG have repeatedly said 'this is the way it is' (more or less). So ok, use if you can and looking forward to see some fixes of the other issues raised (like the growing gap between F2P and P2P ?!)
Just my opinion .. not worth anyone getting upset/crazy about
Other players are smart too and we recognized a flaw to a game and brought it to NG's attention.
You can try to blame me for all the changes being made or you can look at the "real picture" and see that the changes that are being made are not my fault but the fault of the ones abusing this fundamental flaw to the game.
For the love of gawd, stop trying to blame me!
As a FtP player that still has subpar gear for most of my survivors I think that Shine A Light was one of the easier maps of the last challenge and Terminus wasn't the hardest either. Woodbury and Hilltop were much harder. At some point they became unbeatable for me. And I still could do Shine A Light without the use of LLS at that point. So I guess for your standard player this all doesn't make much sense.
Thing is they already nerfed interrupt, they now force us to finish all 6 maps to even advance (no chance to skip the maps you hate or can't finish anymore at some point) - what next? A nerf of the wrestler trait, it seems...
What after that? Shall our guys start shooting marshmallows lest anyone gets hurt? Only sugar free vegan non GMO versions of course.
I'd rather have them fix the Freemen, streamline the challenge map difficulties like they promised to (no more maps being the bottleneck), add rewards for the top members of a guild (that would be awesome), improve the guilds (chat, maybe a trade system... So many things could actually be done), weapon swap, outpost defender swap if wanting to use a survivor for a mission, new story missions... I could go on...
This LLS "problem" affects how many of the players? I imagine it's a teeny tiny minority if anything...
Morbid Survivors are looking for you! If you are looking for a new guild, PM me.
If this was pre 2.4 then I can understand how LLS can be a larger problem.
However like @jaden said I think NG already compromise and did so much to close this gap by making us complete all 6 rounds before advancing.
EDIT: Also my opinions on this thread are on topic which is LLS loophole, not about the new challenge rework. I support @Putchuco 's plea to NG!
Say no to shanking.
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PS: 2.4 made my scouts equipped rifles.
You can still use your low level survivor but whatever advantage they had is gone so you might as well use the high level one.
If your true interest was making the game "fair" to all then you would realize that LLS isn't the biggest cause of an uneven playing field, but the biggest cause of an uneven playing field is 2.4 update which was a update that is "whoever spends more, scores more". I'll say it again... it's not a lack of LLS that is affecting your score but you need to spend more money in a post 2.4 update world.
Point 1 It's very annoying. Why is it annoying to someone what someone else decides to do in the game. It's their game not yours. Seems like insecurity
Point 2 Without low-lvl survivors cannot go back and re-create the same 'strategy. This is a false statement. I've already stated just this morning I pulled a level 9 Legendary.scout. I'm maxed. So everyone has this chance.
Point 3 it cannot be in the interest of the game or fair to all players? What is the interest of the game? To combine survivors and their special traits to advance in the game. Fair to all players? Already proven that every single player as it stands today can choose to test this out.
And it's already been proven that you cannot advance with this method alone. Is it shady, perhaps. But if they have fun doing it who is anyone to take that away
So again why do people want to legislate their method of playing to how others play? And cry It's not fair.
I have no skin in this game, but this is what erks me. People wine and complain because they don't have what others do, or they can't keep up with the Jonses and cry foul, and wine its not fair.
Just like countless other examples there will be unintended consequences
This exploit has a negative impact on the "spirit of the game" and is very damaging to the gaming community. It is in the hands of NG to decide how they handle this issue.
I hope they do take this plea very seriously and make the necessary adjustments for all of their players, not just a few guilds.