Wow, there are some strong arguments, 'stop whining', 'why dont you go out and meet your friends if you have any', 'why dont you use it too'. Err, no, those are not arguments.
Before someone gets their blood boiling too fast, pls go and reread my initial post. I'm saying this trait is simply overpowered, bc without it you cannot get anywhere near the high scores. If we were all doing the same thing, and mindlessly repeat round after round using the wrestling trait, the game would be completely silly.
The argument 'why dont you let us use it': again, you are not reading my post or (deliberately?) not understanding my intentions of wanting to balance the game. I'm all for a strategically challenging game, not for an endlessly repeatable game by some. If the LLS and the wrestling is so cool, why dont you use it in scavenge or outpost missions? Exactly, because one wouldnt get any starz from it.
Using the phrase 'well, why dont you use it yourself?' puts anyone using it in a very dark corner, because that exact argument has been used as THE 'argument' for every single exploit.
So, again, I dont care if some players or entire guilds use it to reap endless starz from it. What I tried to get across is that I would want this game to be challenging and allowing for many tactically interesting options, not one rinse/repeat scheme.
The nerfing of dodge/luck/interrupt shouldve been a lesson to all of us not to build out our teams and gear with one (or few) trait(s) in mind. We are setting ourselves up for disappointment again IMHO, because LLS and wrestling will be nerfed, there is simply no way around it.
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Wow. So much issues with traits. Can't we just play a game without issues on traits, weapons, and armor. If people can't handle the higher RSL levels with what you got then please get better fighters and gear by playing more or just buy the stuff in the bundles. This becomes and person's lack of basic game skills and not an issue with the game.
Seldom does the wrestler trait not work. Heck, even a silver trait on a fighter with no luck or weapon with luck works well. So if you can't do it. Sounds like very bad luck.
Level Cap the Wrestler Trait to +10 of the Survivor's Level. That way if someone wants to take L20 Survivors and max out against L30 Walkers using Wrestling Trait tactics - nobody is stopping you from doing it. Doing this also doesn't affect the 99% (me) who don't give a rat's ass about the Leaderboards. Because it's not the strategy that's the problem. It's the avoidance of time/gold (the risk factor) that makes it a seriously unbalanced aspect of the game.
@Putchuco You can make it challenging for yourself man, don't use the trait. You can solve your own problem Why you have got the divisive responses is because at the heart of the argument, if you strip everything down, YOU want to remove something from EVERYBODY because of how YOU feel. That's very fascist.
People responded by trying to state what they do does not affect you, so why should it bother you. It's just a game, but its almost like a basic tenet, People love choices and freedom and the ability to do what they want, when they want, and how they want, and the decent people will also add they want to do this as long as it does not hurt their fellow man. If there was a mechanic/exploit/bug that someone could do to gain advantage over someone else, then I believe the general consensus would be on the side of "right" or "fair."
So really it's about freedom. Not "Murica freedom. But freedom of choice.
Someone wants to take that away, and champion the expulsion of it because of a personnel bias, damn straight people will get visceral. It's not personnel to you, but your idea.
I hope you can have fun not using the trait, or maybe on Double Trouble when you need one more star for a deluxe crate or tokes you can get a lucky wrestler kick in and advance to the next level. Or not use it at all and be extra proud if you beat it the old fashioned way.
Either way I hope you have fun playing this week. I'm not at all trying to bash. Just applying my observations to why I think people get upset.
@Putchuco without ridicule , personal insults, or any other such method, I'm gonna break this down for you using last challenge as an example.
I had to build my LLS team with a maxed radio tower , which means that my lowest possible survivors are level 9. It took me weeks of farming to get the low level wrestler gear , and dozens of tries to get the technique down ..
2 of the 6 maps in Memory Lane were doable with LLS. Terminus and Shine a light.. ok so that means you can't use LLS to move up a tier , because you still have to beat the other 4/6 missions ..
So now to the actual use of the LLS teams , Terminus at one point took me 27 attempts in a row before winning a star ... this requires a gas booster on every day you are trying to use this strategy .. shine a light was a little easier , but still took smart strategy to get to the exit while only getting hit 3 times ... it's actually hard. It gives me fond memories of using interrupt to kite fatties for 25 minutes to beat one mission before my heart was broken with the exit of interrupt and dodge ... Not only does LLS take strategy and real money , it is also FUN! This is only my opinion , but the reason you are getting so much negative here , is because the LLS teams in this new challenge format are not the reason people or guilds are getting massive amounts of stars. The reasons are threefold
1. Money spent (mainly on healing) 2. Pink star survivors (mainly from real money) 3. Skills and strategy
I hope that gives you a better idea of where people using them are coming from man . Cheers
I'll say this again. I have no problem with LLS. The issue i take is that the LLS are essentially able to by-pass a game mechanic that is intended (healing time / healing cost). If healing time / cost was based on the RSL of the map and not the level of the survivor level (1, 6, 9, 20, 1000) people could then use whatever strategy they so desired and the game would function normally and as designed.
In what plane of existence can you really believe that NG intended a low level survivor to be able to survive much less struggle away and kill a shambling horror.
I agree with @Japes87 about figuring out how to use LLS effectively in the first place was a stroke of genius.
Now another question for someone smarter then me and with carl unlocked (and legendary?). If you take carl along as leader and get into a struggle and struggle your way out what happens? How does carl change the struggle mechanics?
The super long healing time is killing the game for me in general. Having to do these high RSL's multiple times and then waiting for my A team to heal over and over is just getting annoying.
Challenge pre 2.4 i could decide to stop on a map once i reached my limit, now to be competitive it takes a much bigger investment in time.
There were actually 4 maps on last challenge where lls were useful. The obvious 2 were the run to the exit levels but a lls was used in a video for hilltop the person run to one side with lls and wrestler trait killed the single lvl 28 fattie and then killed the rest with the 2 lvl 20 survivors. The other map was the freeman map a lvl 3 scout and 2 lvl 20 shooters, now they didn't win the map with the lvl 3 scout but they were obviously fleeing waiting to get the perfect setup and sacrificing the scout with no heal time. (In the video the freeman shooter started up top of the map it ran to cover than sat there for 2-3 spawns and never fired on the guys survivors even when they fired upon it and in range.
I believe many players here understand the original use of the wrestler trait but I will explain it for those might not know the history. There were deadly missions in which a survivor was hit by a walker and began to wrestle with them. Your other survivors had to opportunity to save that survivor with some sort of kill. This was crucial during those deadly missions because that wrestling trait gave additional turn(s) to save said survivor from the memorial (being killed from your lineup). With the removal of deadly missions, the wrestling trait became all but useless. Ng wasn't going to remove it and had to make it a desirable trait on armor, hence the buff of a percentage of killing a walker during a struggle. It appears, to some players, that the buff has backfired. I am not sure where I am going with this, but to argue about it's use is rather futile. Either NG will change it or not, and if they do again, it will probably become useless again.
Comments
This thread needs m0ar Jester's IMO....
"Individually, we are but drops of water in the ocean. But together, we are the ocean!"
> yesterday's topic was LLS.
> today's topic is wrestler trait.
> tomorrow's topic is Stu?!
No, but it rhymes with Stu
Click here to see my youtube strategy videos.
Let's wrestle for this post.
Edit: this is quite fitting for this topic, as I found this statement on wiki
"In America, the term pig in the middle is sometimes used as slang for being under pressure from both sides of a dispute"
NG you pig
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Err, no, those are not arguments.
Before someone gets their blood boiling too fast, pls go and reread my initial post.
I'm saying this trait is simply overpowered, bc without it you cannot get anywhere near the high scores. If we were all doing the same thing, and mindlessly repeat round after round using the wrestling trait, the game would be completely silly.
The argument 'why dont you let us use it': again, you are not reading my post or (deliberately?) not understanding my intentions of wanting to balance the game. I'm all for a strategically challenging game, not for an endlessly repeatable game by some.
If the LLS and the wrestling is so cool, why dont you use it in scavenge or outpost missions? Exactly, because one wouldnt get any starz from it.
Using the phrase 'well, why dont you use it yourself?' puts anyone using it in a very dark corner, because that exact argument has been used as THE 'argument' for every single exploit.
So, again, I dont care if some players or entire guilds use it to reap endless starz from it.
What I tried to get across is that I would want this game to be challenging and allowing for many tactically interesting options, not one rinse/repeat scheme.
The nerfing of dodge/luck/interrupt shouldve been a lesson to all of us not to build out our teams and gear with one (or few) trait(s) in mind. We are setting ourselves up for disappointment again IMHO, because LLS and wrestling will be nerfed, there is simply no way around it.
contact us via email at [email protected]
Seldom does the wrestler trait not work. Heck, even a silver trait on a fighter with no luck or weapon with luck works well. So if you can't do it. Sounds like very bad luck.
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contact us via email at [email protected]
Why you have got the divisive responses is because at the heart of the argument, if you strip everything down, YOU want to remove something from EVERYBODY because of how YOU feel. That's very fascist.
People responded by trying to state what they do does not affect you, so why should it bother you. It's just a game, but its almost like a basic tenet, People love choices and freedom and the ability to do what they want, when they want, and how they want, and the decent people will also add they want to do this as long as it does not hurt their fellow man. If there was a mechanic/exploit/bug that someone could do to gain advantage over someone else, then I believe the general consensus would be on the side of "right" or "fair."
So really it's about freedom. Not "Murica freedom. But freedom of choice.
Someone wants to take that away, and champion the expulsion of it because of a personnel bias, damn straight people will get visceral.
It's not personnel to you, but your idea.
I hope you can have fun not using the trait, or maybe on Double Trouble when you need one more star for a deluxe crate or tokes you can get a lucky wrestler kick in and advance to the next level. Or not use it at all and be extra proud if you beat it the old fashioned way.
Either way I hope you have fun playing this week. I'm not at all trying to bash. Just applying my observations to why I think people get upset.
I had to build my LLS team with a maxed radio tower , which means that my lowest possible survivors are level 9. It took me weeks of farming to get the low level wrestler gear , and dozens of tries to get the technique down ..
2 of the 6 maps in Memory Lane were doable with LLS. Terminus and Shine a light.. ok so that means you can't use LLS to move up a tier , because you still have to beat the other 4/6 missions ..
So now to the actual use of the LLS teams , Terminus at one point took me 27 attempts in a row before winning a star ... this requires a gas booster on every day you are trying to use this strategy .. shine a light was a little easier , but still took smart strategy to get to the exit while only getting hit 3 times ... it's actually hard. It gives me fond memories of using interrupt to kite fatties for 25 minutes to beat one mission before my heart was broken with the exit of interrupt and dodge ...
Not only does LLS take strategy and real money , it is also FUN! This is only my opinion , but the reason you are getting so much negative here , is because the LLS teams in this new challenge format are not the reason people or guilds are getting massive amounts of stars. The reasons are threefold
1. Money spent (mainly on healing)
2. Pink star survivors (mainly from real money)
3. Skills and strategy
I hope that gives you a better idea of where people using them are coming from man . Cheers
In what plane of existence can you really believe that NG intended a low level survivor to be able to survive much less struggle away and kill a shambling horror.
I agree with @Japes87 about figuring out how to use LLS effectively in the first place was a stroke of genius.
Now another question for someone smarter then me and with carl unlocked (and legendary?). If you take carl along as leader and get into a struggle and struggle your way out what happens? How does carl change the struggle mechanics?
The super long healing time is killing the game for me in general. Having to do these high RSL's multiple times and then waiting for my A team to heal over and over is just getting annoying.
Challenge pre 2.4 i could decide to stop on a map once i reached my limit, now to be competitive it takes a much bigger investment in time.
TL:DR Move on, nothing to see here.
Probably not but it's a part of gameplay and a strategy that many seem to use. It's all a part of the game.
Next thing people will think Tara's ability to heal players in a challenge is overpowered in combination with the charging trait.
MAVERICK'S 1 Million Star Club | OG | USA | NOC
Analyze This with ALF4reals | v1 | v2 | v3 |
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Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'