Outpost Trade Good Rewards Formula

Has anyone bothered to figure out what the formula to determine the trade good payout per outpost raid is?

I've read elsewhere that it's based on player level and number of walkers in the outpost, but nothing on specifics. If it hasn't yet been determined, I can try to collect some data to see if I can determine it from data results.
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  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    Just ask Shteevie. It's Math. XD
    lunaranSCBMAJaden
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Not sure exactly the science but higher level walkers in the front give higher reward TG's; lower level walkers in the front give lower reward TG's. I think quantity might play a factor as well but not 100% sure anymore.

    Influence used to be in relation to rarity & level of the defenders but I don't know if that logic holds true anymore either.

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  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,522
    DLich said:

    Not sure exactly the science but higher level walkers in the front give higher reward TG's; lower level walkers in the front give lower reward TG's. I think quantity might play a factor as well but not 100% sure anymore.

    Influence used to be in relation to rarity & level of the defenders but I don't know if that logic holds true anymore either.

    I thought influence was based on the influence of the person you're raiding. If they're below you, you get 10 influence points. If they're above you, you get more than 10.

    I think TG rewards are based on: number of walkers, level of walkers, rarity of defenders, and level of defenders. Not sure how that calculates into the actual number of TG though.

    From experience, there has been some variation in the TG rewards between Outposts with the maximum number of walkers that are all maxed out. Usually, maxed out Outposts with higher TG rewards have been associated with more pink star survivors, but this is purely anecdotal.
    GrimGael
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    Alright, I'll collect some data and see what I can come with before I report back here.
    GrimGael
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    I was just pondering this (loosely) in connection with the discussion on outhouse walkers in the other thread. Something has surely changed in matchmaking with the update. I'd like to see this factored into matchmaking, as in-if you're giving out 360 tradegoods to raiders, you should get to raid only those who do the same. That would allow those who've spent on the walker pit to see return on their investment, while providing some gentle incentive for people to chip in. Simultaneously, it would make the whole thing optional and not require a change in the mechanics of outhouses themselves. Because I'm a little gun shy of "fixing" "balancing" "improving" major things after this update.
    bigbeano
  • bigbeanobigbeano Member Posts: 602
    I raided one today with low level normals (several) and high level special walkers.Over 500 TG,that seemed strange compared to other ones with all maxed walkers that only offered a few more tg.
  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 293
    A nugget to include - I think the TG reward is heavily influenced by walker level as opposed to quantity. I raided an outpost with only 4 walkers (not supposed to happen) that were lvl 19. I received in the neighborhood of 530 TG, similar to a fully maxed with armored and tanks where I see about 550-560 TG.

    I also do not think influence is tied to the defenders level. I have seen similar influence rewards for lvl 20 pinks vs. lvl 15 common. That leads me to believe it is not the defenders, but the player level / influence that are the primary contributers
    JayZRedEye52TJCart
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    jbuoy said:

    A nugget to include - I think the TG reward is heavily influenced by walker level as opposed to quantity. I raided an outpost with only 4 walkers (not supposed to happen) that were lvl 19. I received in the neighborhood of 530 TG, similar to a fully maxed with armored and tanks where I see about 550-560 TG.

    I also do not think influence is tied to the defenders level. I have seen similar influence rewards for lvl 20 pinks vs. lvl 15 common. That leads me to believe it is not the defenders, but the player level / influence that are the primary contributers

    I agree with this also. Your Walker strength used to vary depending on how many armored and tanks you put in your outpost. Now that doesn't matter anymore, your strength is what it is and can't be lowered by removing them from your outpost maps.

    I believe walker strength (although unseen by players when facing opponents) is factored into the equation somehow.

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  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    Yes these are all things I'm considering in gathering data so far. I believe that I've already been able to make the determination that the TG value does NOT only factor walkers that are placed in the OP, but also those that have been upgraded/purchased in the Walker Pit which are not necessarily placed into the OP.

    Of course I can only make observations off of the data that I can "see" when attacking the OPs, but even with that limitation, I may be able to infer enough of the other information to determine what the exact (or a very close approximation) of the formula is.

    I'm also considering whether OP location is a factor (might make sense since less specials can fit into some areas). I've already discounted possibilities such as survivors factoring into the equation even though it could be possible.
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    Ooh, can't wait to see @Dlich wizardry turning 96 into 528 ;)

    Seriously though. Would love to know this one
    1RisCherokee_RoseDLich
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    None of my forum friends visit any more. But if anyone still cares about poor old Grim...
    PS, only two tanks out, running lake because anyone not sick of rural fiends is playing a different game.
    TJCart
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    @DoTak 96 goes into 528 exactly 5.5 times but I don't think it's that cut and dry because using that logic 114 multiplied by 5.5 is 627 which is impossible to attain on a raid.

    There could be many variables other than Walker strength like map type, which layout on that map, Walker pit level (just because someone chooses not to upgrade walkers doesn't mean they don't upgrade the pit for BP purposes), camp level might play a part in it but I think that just determines matches not trade goods.

    All I pay attention to is the amount of TG's being offered. I don't even look at my log anymore for familiar faces. Get in, get the TG's as fast as I can, and on to the next one.

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    I do know that if I have 4400 influence and a camp level of 59 that I will not be matched against someone with 4400 influence with a camp level of 30. My Lvl 20 survivors will never fave their Lvl 13 survivors.

    So I don't think camp level plays a part in it but it might.

    For example let's suppose it's Walker strength multiplied by 3 plus camp level multiplied by 4.

    In the example of @Cherokee_Rose

    Walker strength of 96 X 3 = 288
    Camp level 60 X 4 = 240

    288 + 240 = 528

    That formula will hold true and allow variations but still would get over 560 if Walker strength was 114 which is the max.

    114 X 3 = 342
    60 X 4 = 240
    Total of 582 where in my original example of Walker strength multiplied by 5.5 gets 627

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  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    <<------------- Bedazzled
    DLichRedEye52SCBMAGnatevil
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    I'm not maxed. I haven't captured all available normal walkers. I just grabbed some until I figured I was handing out over 500 to the trick-or-treaters.
    DLichTJCart
  • TheLostOnesTheLostOnes Member Posts: 3,030
    @DLich I think the level, possibly the rarity of the defending survivors count as well but that is purely a hunch.

    At least I have noticed when you run into level 18 defenders that the TG rewards tend to be on the low side (although that could be linked to other scores being low for that defender).

    When outpost was launched, I think that the defense strength number was a mix between the levels of your pit walkers and your defenders (whereas now it's only the walkers), Therefore, it would make sense if the defender strenght somehow still plays a part.
    I'm lost.

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    TJCart
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    @TheLostOnes I don't believe that survivor rarity may play a part in the calculation. The first being anecdotal information where I've seen 500+ TGs from an OP with trash survivors (level 5-8 common). That should be able to be confirmed/refuted with enough data.

    The second reason is logic. While I'm not a programming expert, I would think that NG would want to streamline their matchmaking code to get adequately "good" results with as simple a calculation as possible. Heck, even Shteevie gave that as the underlying reason for the Radio Tent change. You don't necessarily want the "best" matchmaking system if it comes with huge programming/computing resource costs. So going off of this logic, I'm working on the simplest solutions first and continuing to add more variables.

    Thankfully @Dlich provided one "hard" data point with complete information with Cherokee_Rose's response (at least if comparative player values are not taken into account). However, it's going to take a lot more data to find a possible result, especially if I'm doing primarily with only "half" of the information that I can produce myself my doing raids.
    RedEye52DLichDodkong
  • TheLostOnesTheLostOnes Member Posts: 3,030
    @TJCart good point.

    @DLich another possible data point coming here. Just raided you now, here are the details:
    I'm lost.

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    TJCart
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    No fair, I wanna raid @DLich too
    TheLostOnesTJCart
  • TheLostOnesTheLostOnes Member Posts: 3,030
    GrimGael said:

    No fair, I wanna raid @DLich too

    Beware, as you can see from the third screenshot, there are three witches guarding the entrance. The password is "Cerberus" which you must say three times.
    I'm lost.

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  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    Sounds like home...
    TheLostOnes
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2017
    Which witch is wich lol. Here's the data we have thus far.

    @TheLostOnes raided @DLich ; Defender influence 4468; Walker Strength 114; Camp level 59; Opponent earned 534 TG's. Attackers influence 4775

    @DLich raided @Cherokee_Rose ; Defender influence 3456; Walker Strength 96; Camp level 58; Opponent earned 528 TG's. Attackers influence 4446

    *edited to include all pertinent data*

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Between these two data points alone there is minimal difference regarding the amount of TG's earned (total of 6) but such a big difference between walker strength's. Weird.

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    TheLostOnesbigbeano
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    @DLich Well one thing that I didn't mention earlier, because it was only based on anecdotal evidence and a bit of a guess so far is that the formula is not going to be linear. I say this because if that's the case, then observationally we should see an OP at near 0 TGs or at least below 100 for those that have boycotted the walker pit (I've read it on the forums, so it MUST be true, lol) which I've never seen. Of course it could just be that the formula includes a base number of TG and progresses linearly from there, but I'm keeping my options open at this point.
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    What would actually be very interesting to know is if anyone else is able to post their TG payout amount against @DLich or @Cherokee_Rose. Especially if that attacker has significantly different stats than either @Dlich or @TheLostOnes , then we would be able to determine whether the payout amount is either dependent or independent of the attacker's stats.
  • Squall_NMLSquall_NML Member Posts: 737

    GrimGael said:

    No fair, I wanna raid @DLich too

    Beware, as you can see from the third screenshot, there are three witches guarding the entrance. The password is "Cerberus" which you must say three times.
    @TheLostOnes
    What if the password had been changed to 'Uranus'..
    And the sentence should be spelled by calling out the first 2 letters..
    Stop for a second..
    And scream for the last 4 letters..
    Could you imagine? :D
    bigbeanoGrimGael
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