Assault not killing walkers

OneVoiceOneVoice Member Posts: 133
There's a change to assault ability to kill walkers.

It comes after assault challenge week. Where you have gathered data and made them weaker.

So simple test is to get assault, mine L20 with L23 weapon and 6 stars.

Attack x2 walkers. So far done this test on RSL 19 and 20 walkers.

One of those walkers remain.

In old days both killed.
KaLiGuapoDLHInvaderRosie_Posieenigma12gcheong85
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Comments

  • OneVoiceOneVoice Member Posts: 133
    The Box, challenge map easy to repro.

    Take assault.
    At least x2 walkers spawn at start.
    Works best if your assault quick moves first, then shoots walkers.

    So if you shoot without moving more chance of critical, but not always now.
    But if you move first then shoot, higher chance if body shot.

    Why is this an issuse?
    a) has not happened before 2.5 update
    b) the walkers not dying are only rsl 19. That's usually cannon fodder.

    A change has been made.
  • SpringChickenSpringChicken Member Posts: 145
    You are factoring in the increased walker difficulty for this update?
    OneVoice
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    We are seeing the same across our guild. The assaults got a definite nerf, but we have yet to get any response.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    OneVoice
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    Looking at those numbers, in the top example, your assault did 1524 dmg which is about 80% of his rated dmg. My thinking there is that wasn't a body shot, which I would expect to be closer to 50%, as was the case in your second example vs the level 21s. I would agree that a pink star level 20 should only get a body shot vs a level 21 walker rarely as they should be equivalent in level for the purpose of determining the chances.

    As for the first example vs the level 22 walkers, my guess would be that this shows the low end of the variable range of damage. Of course, no one knows what this range is, but I'm leaning toward thinking that it's different for each class. Assaults seem to have a wide damage range in general. It could be possible that the variable range was adjusted. TCZ mentioned this damage range when addressing the BBQ weapon, saying it's supposed to have a wider range of possible damage within a 'normal' hit.

    Or, my other theory regarding the 80% damage you did vs the level 22, is that the melee classes' supposed body shot damage buff somehow made it over to assaults as well. So perhaps this attack was also a body shot, but the damage reduction is 20% rather than 50%

    If anyone can follow what I just said I'll be amazed because I'm not sure I'm expressing it clearly, lol
    1RisOneVoiceanniesprinkles
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    I have a pink star level 20 assault who couldn't reliably kill level 16 normal walkers in this challenge. He's only got a level 21 (base 18) rifle, but he's never had this kind of trouble before.
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  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 6,927
    @all, could you provide screenshots of your survivors with the gear used when this was noticed?
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    I'm past level 17 walkers so I can't reproduce that but here's level 18... Killed one, the other survived.

    Abraham in the lead with marksman giving him 12% more damage plus his leader trait an additional 12% (in whatever order this is calculated).

    Okay, his weapon doesn't have deadly... Sorry, RNGesus didn't bless me with a rifle that had piercing and deadly so I would be able to reliably kill level 17 to 19 normal walkers with epic Abe. >:)







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  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited April 2017
    Failed to kill 19s. No body shot. I tried to post picture, but it's a pink level assault 20 with level 23 equipment.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    JadenOneVoiceenigma12
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    Oh, I have one like that, too (6star)... used Abe in the lead, she wasn't able to kill level 19 walkers during assault week...
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  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870



    These are Ronnie and Phil. Ronnie is still going strong at RSL 22. Phil I retired from this challenge when he was more often than not unable to one-shot level 16 normal walkers.

    I realise that Ronnie has marksman and a better weapon. However, Phil doesn't normally need to warm the bench so early in a challenge. I feel like he normally can one-shot through level 20 pretty reliably.

    Ronnie is just starting to leave a walker standing here and there, but still one-shotting most targets in his spread. That seems about normal to me.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
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  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    The differences I see between my Abe and his equip and Ronnie are
    - Ronnie is legendary (44 more damage)
    - marksman level 5 (vs. 4 on Abe)
    - piercing on your weapon
    - 12% more damage on Abe (leader trait)

    Now I don't know how all this is calculated and what both guys' actual damage should be (what is displayed and what isn't?) but no matter what, not killing level 17 or 18 walkers is ridiculous.

    Yet I hear crickets.

    @Teeceezy @Shteevie

    What is up with that?

    Bug? Intended? You don't know? Anything?
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  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    Update: I continued to use Ronnie all the way through RSL 23. I'm one mission away from finishing RSL 24.1 and only just now thinking about whether I need to swap him out because he's not one-shotting more often than he is.

    Ordinarily when the assault on a single-assault team stops one-shotting reliably, I have two ways to solve that. One is to run two assaults, so they can overlap targets. Another is to swap out the assault for a hunter.

    On this challenge, I'm hesitant about either approach. My next best assault, Phil, has been useless since level 16. I'm not bringing him in at RSL 24. Prior to this challenge, though, I might have done that without a worry.

    Swapping Ronnie out for a hunter will work on some missions, but on a couple (like that gate opening one), the spawn directions can be wide enough that I might prefer the overlapping assaults. That's not an option for me now with whatever seems to have happened to some assaults, like Phil.

    I may have to do something radical like actually use a warrior on warrior week.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    Main point: I don't think marksman and the better weapon adequately explain why Ronnie has been effective through 24.1 and Phil had to be dropped back at 16, especially since I've never had to drop Phil so early in a challenge before.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    I've just finished upgrading a weapon with gold piercing and silver skull and so far I am doing much better than before. Level 23 seems to be point where I now occasionally leave a walker standing.

    I use my 6star assault now, though, but she had the same problems Abe had before.

    This still should not be happening that assaults need piercing (and deadly) to be able to kill walkers 3 levels below them.
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  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    I agree. I didn't notice whether Phil was bodyshotting or just sucking. I just noticed walkers standing who ordinarily wouldn't be.

    For example, if Ronnie's in hospital and I want to raid, Phil always comes along. And he never leaves level 19s standing in outposts. When I do a scavenge mission, he's reliable in the same way. And, again, in no challenge in the past have I ever had to drop him because he couldn't kill 16s.

    It's certainly plausible that the piercing trait is making up for some problem that's otherwise causing assaults to bodyshot more than ever before. Whatever the case, something ain't right. I wish I had thought to try Ronnie's weapon with Phil to see if that fixed it! I'm not going to do that now at RSL 24+ though.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    Ok, I just ran two raids with Phil. It's a small sample size, but I think it was revealing.

    Both opponents had level 19 walkers. With his own rifle, Phil got body shots on about 1 out of 3 normal walkers, always leaving them alive, and always one-shot killing when there wasn't a body shot.

    For the second raid, I let Phil use Ronnie's weapon. There were no body shots, and no failure to one-shot kill normal walkers.

    It seems pretty clear to me that piercing is making the difference. Should an assault without piercing be getting a 33% body shot rate against normal walkers one level below his own (let alone the 16s Phil couldn't kill in the challenge)? That doesn't seem right to me.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
    Guapo
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited April 2017
    I'm using gold piercing with silver critical on legendary Abe, with 6 marksman and 6 sureshot and 6 luck on my pink legendary using gold lethal and silver destructive. Using sure shot on the one, and shooting with both survivors I am leaving level 23 walkers standing. It is ridiculous we can't get an answer to this.

    I keep trying to post screenshots but the bar fills up then nothing posts.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    gcheong85
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    @Guapo try request desktop site to post pics
    Guapo
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited April 2017



    I'll try this. Both these just hit a level 23 walker and did not kill it. Again, I even used sure shot.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited April 2017
    Abe was using the piercing gun and was leader.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    Maybe it's the combination of both piercing and skull that made the difference for me. But I am also leaving level 23 standing sometimes. Level 22 seems to be a sure kill every time.

    Still better than leaving level 17 standing... Still not how I think it should work...
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

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  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    Like a message in a bottle. 10 years later someone will open this and see there was a problem.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    JadenTWDSkutterBuffyDkjmia421
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    Does anybody really listen when I speak
    Or will I have to say it all again next week?

    Hello, hello turn your radio on!
    Is there anybody out there?
    Tell me what went wrong.

    @Teeceezy @Shteevie
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

    Morbid Survivors are looking for you! If you are looking for a new guild, PM me.
    GuapoJackBauer
  • TWDSkutterTWDSkutter Member Posts: 160
    After risk+1 assaults became basically useless unless I wanted to mildly annoy a bunch of z's. Even before that I was getting some ludicrous non-kills with a 21 assault with 23 weapon, particularly the apparent coding that always leaves at least one 'spare'.
    This space for rent

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  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    So the answer is to raise the melee stats? After all this no answer and a slap in the face. I guess guns are useless in zombie apocalypse. Who knew? Oh, and for sure don't use assault weapons, they are absolutely useless.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    General_Quatre
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    @zbot @teeceezy Can we at least get an answer?? Here it is again after using sureshot.


    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    JadenOneVoicekjmia421
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