Preferred Survivor Traits - My Current Philosophy

tabernac

*** This philopsphy was based on Survivors/Traits prior to the 2.6 update - The new traits change everything of course ***

I wanted to throw out my current philosophy in terms of survivor traits. See if people agree or think I'm crazy. Feedback always welcome. Always want to continue to learn! I don't have the resources to invest in a bunch of really niche specialty survivors so I'm forced to keep it simple.

I break down survivors into 3 desirable categories.

1. Nimble Survivors
2. Damage Survivors
3. Serviceable

My preferred Nimble Melee Survivor breaks down like this:
1. Retaliate
2. Luck
3. Dodge
4. Bullet Dodge
5. Strong

My preferred Damage Melee Survivor breaks down like this:
1. Retaliate
2. Power Strike
3. Iron Skin
4. Strong
5. Luck

My preferred Nimble Ranged Survivor breaks down like this:
1. Marksman
2. Sure Shot
3. Luck
4. Dodge
5. Bullet Dodge

My preferred Damage Ranged Survivor breaks down like this:
1. Marksman
2. Sure Shot
3. Luck
4. Iron Skin
5. Vigilant

A Serviceable Survivor would be one that has 4 of 5 preferred traits, with some caveats. For example I wouldn't invest a ton of resources into a Damage Melee Survivor without Retaliate, Iron Skin, Strong, and Power Strike....

*[Edited to include traits disclaimer]

Mabiki

Nice run down @tabernac

I would tend to agree with your assessment.
I've noticed some high level players prefer replacing Sure Shot with another trait, but for me it is essential (along with Marksman) for any ranged except maybe assault.

tabernac

@Mabiki Yep, I agree in terms of Sure Shot and the assault category. Not essential, but always welcome. Using a static assaulter to lay down some covering fire while other survivors fall back is glorious.

tabernac

I need to post an updated addendum to emphasize something in terms of Melee survivors:

All Melee survivors MUST have the Strong trait in order to be included in any of the 3 categories. I have a couple of Melee survivors that I've had since almost the beginning of my play that don't have the Strong trait and it's a case of "if I knew then, what I know now..."

The logic is this:

At the starting Legendary level of the Strong trait (4) you get a 12% damage increase. At the following level (5), it jumps to a 15% damage increase. This is just way too much to leave at the table....

Guapo

I've relegated bullet dodge to the crap pile (or bs pile). I wish they'd just put something more realistic or useful there. It definitely is not on my list of desirables.

tabernac

@Guapo You make a good point. Bullet Dodge definitely has limited use outside of the Story Line Missions, and maybe one map (if that) on the Challenge scenarios and Outpost. I make the joke that on higher RSL levels my survivors without Bullet Dodge have the same dodge ratio as those that have it. One thing I will note is that it seems that even though both survivors take a hit, the ones with Bullet Dodge do seem to take less damaging body shots to a greater degree, which can mean the difference between life and death at times.

capibara

For melee i mainly care for dodge and retaliate, but for some strange reason you know that my 3 best ....scout, bruiser, warrior have no dodge!! Lol....

tabernac

@capibara

Capi, agree totally. For Melee I place a high value on Dodge and Retaliate. For me the Melee "Holy Trinity" is Retaliate, Strong, and Dodge. I won't promote a Melee character without those 3 now.

That being said, my secondary scout that I have had forever doesn't have Dodge. I've had really bad luck with Scout calls. Thankfully we can mitigate our non-Dodgers to a degree with armor traits. I'm waiting for the Shop to offer Scout armor for me so I can hopefully get something with Gold Dodge!

anniesprinkles

@tabernac so what is the deal. Now I read where you think strong and dodge maybe not so important on bruiser. Well a bruiser is melee class. "Holy Trinity"? Maybe you should edit this or clarify what your meaning of the Holy Trinity is, it's not the Three Stooges!

tabernac

@anniesprinkles You're right, I need to clarify. The "Holy Trinity" concept only applies to Nimble Melee Survivors. I tend to focus on them more because that build tends to be more compatible with my playing style.

That being said, after having conversations with some folks that really push high RSL's in Challenges, the thing that they emphasized is that traits that depend on chance such as Dodge get so diminished when going up against high level Zeds, that you're better off going with a trait that you know will always work like Iron Skin. Another thing to consider is that after you get to a certain RSL above your Survivors, Bruisers aren't stunning anyone anymore, so you need to switch from leveraging the Bruiser stun to more leveraging their high health and that brings me to the next point.

Basically the Damage Melee Survivor is more capable at those levels in their view. If I was going to build a Juggernaut Bruiser for high RSL it would look like this:

1. Luck
2. Strong
3. Iron Skin
4. Power Strike
5. Defensive Stance

So only a slight variation on the Damage Melee Survivor (Defensive Stance for Retaliate).

Now, I don't think I ever said that Strong wasn't important. I think there was a conversation in another thread with @Jaden where I could see his point that if you wanted a Nimble Stun and Move style Bruiser, I could see letting go of Strong. But at the end of the day I'd take Strong over Iron Skin and maybe get Iron Skin as a component of the Armor I use.

Thanks for bringing this up, and I'm humbled that folks use this thread. I said from the beginning that my philosophy is subject to change from the input of others and thanks to everyone for holding me to that!

anniesprinkles

@tabernac Thank you for taking the time to make your point more understandable. It's great when you can come here and actually learn something you can improve your game strategy with.

anniesprinkles

@tabernac I also want to add that me(I) and a few others follow your posts (threads, I don't know) because you back up what you say with logical reasoning. You don't just say, "I don't like defensive stance", you say WHY you don't like defensive stance. (Just an example, because I'm pretty sure you like defensive stance on certain survivors/situations) The WHY is what helps you learn, so here's to you tabernac...hip hip hooray hip hip hooray hip hip hooray *\O/* *\O/* *\O/* (I just really like to make those little cheerleaders)

anniesprinkles

@tabernac Sorry, I have another question. Why not vigilant instead of Luck? I would think defensive stance and vigilant might work well together. And how do you know when either trait is triggered or worked. By calculating a normal hit and then calculating when you think it worked? I don't know????

tabernac

@anniesprinkles Good question. I put Luck pretty high on the list of traits because of how many things it impacts. It definitely is a shadow of it's former usefulness, but that being said it is still extremely useful in both Nimble and Damage builds. In terms of our Damage Bruiser, I love the way that Luck works with the PowerStrike trait. Lovely combo. I also love the things that Luck stacks on our Bruiser in terms of the any of the weapons/armor traits like Accuracy, Charging, Stun Resistance, Wrestle, Concussion, and NG has already released a weapon with Piercing even though it didn't work as intended, it will be back at some point. Granted you can get a weapon with Gold Luck, but that takes up a valuable slot on a weapon. Would you rather have a sledge with Gold Luck and Gold Lethal or one with Gold Lethal and Gold Charging?

Vigilant is a nice trait, don't get me wrong, but it's just that for me Luck is the more desirable of the two. For me the Vigilant trait can be really desirable on a Hunter or a Shooter.

Defensive Stance and Vigilant are both traits that are only triggered when your survivor is on overwatch. At Level 4, Defensive Stance increases your damage resistance by 42%. A considerable amount of damage is mitigated. When you're on Overwatch you attack at a rate of 50% of your base damage. At level 4, Vigilant gives you an additional 32% on top of that 50% base damage attack. There isn't a visual cue when Defensive Stance is triggered, and I believe this is also true of Vigilant (I only have one survivor with Vigilant that is a Hunter and that I'm developing). The good news is that they are triggered automatically whenever the need for them arises as long as you are in Overwatch. You can tell a survivor with Defensive Stance vs. one that doesn't pretty clearly when they are struck in Overwatch. The damage that the DS survivor takes is going to be way less when you've got two survivors at similar levels in the same class.

ThanosOfTitan

So this guy is a keeper for attack ?

ThanosOfTitan

Great thread thanks for teaching me something

tabernac

@ThanosOfTitan Oh yeah, Killer lives up to has namesake. Great Damage Warrior!

ThanosOfTitan

@tabernac I am going to upgrade him to 20 and try and pink star him, I only have Ezekiel and Jesus, I need a bruiser like him as well,.

ThanosOfTitan

Unfortunately my two ranged hunters have a mix of your preferred nimble or damaged ranged
1 has
iron skin
Marksman
Dodge
Defensive stance
Vigilant
She is level 16

2 has
Iron skin
Marksman
Sure shot
Bullet dodge
Defensive stance
She is level 19

I have unlocked level 20 but not upgraded them yet as I am concentrating on weapons

Not sure whether to persist or go looking for the perfect ones

tabernac

@ThanosOfTitan Personally I wouldn't sink too many tokens into any ranged survivor that didn't have Luck, Marksman, and Sure Shot.

tabernac

I added an Update 2.6 disclaimer to my original post. Eager to hear peoples thoughts on the new traits after they are put into use.

One belief that I still have (subject to change of course) is that for Ranged Survivors the traits of Luck, Marksman, and Sure Shot are still the pillars of a solid build.

Ruthless on paper sounds incredible for Shooters and Hunters. For Assaults since the main focus on their Charged Attack is to stun, maybe not as important for them.

Revenge seems interesting. On Hunters and Shooters I'd take this trait over Bullet Dodge, and Defensive Stance at first blush, maybe others...

anniesprinkles

@tabernac Curious...have you tried out any of the new traits yet?

I'm still waiting for new traits to be on someone or something worth investing in.

tabernac

Heya @anniesprinkles - I've done a little bit of cursory testing on the traits but not much. I ran through some scenarios with an Epic Shooter that I pulled with the Revenge trait. At the end of it I considered it really inconsistent, and was unimpressed overall. @JackBauer did some really in depth work on the trait in this thread: http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/27065/revenge-trait-behaviour-you-should-know-before-using-it/p1 and others have chimed in and related other buggy aspects of this trait. If this trait gets the kinks ironed out of it and performs like the description in the Update Notes, it could be useful. In my book it definitely isn't contending with the top 3 ranged traits of Marksman, Luck, and Sure Shot. Not even close. At this point possible 5th trait material behind Ruthless on Hunters and Shooters.

Speaking of Ruthless, here things get interesting. A friend has done some testing with a Hunter that has the Ruthless trait and they said that the charged attack adds a considerable punch to that attack. I also think I recall that Terminates did a video showcasing this trait and the results were impressive. I don't have any hard numbers but it seems to me that it's quite possible that Ruthless might be a must have for any new survivor build that doesn't stun for their charged attack. Since the primary charge attack of Assaults and Bruisers is to stun, and not deal massive damage, at first blush it wouldn't seem like this trait would be crucial to them.

Punish seems like it might have some decent use as a 5th trait for Bruisers. I could see it being useful on a Nimble Build Bruiser where you'd give up the Bullet Dodge trait in favor of it. That's the only trait that I'd sacrifice for it on this build, but others would probably add Strong to the list. For a Meat Wall Bruiser, if you had a Bruiser with Luck, DS, Iron Skin, and Power Strike and turned over Punish as the 5th trait I'd be pretty happy. Not perfect, in that I'd prefer Strong or even Vigilant over it, but I think that you'd have a totally Serviceable and valuable Meat Wall on your hands.

A lot of conjecture and anecdotal stuff here, but this is where I'm at on a preliminary basis. If anyone has any other angles or perspectives I'd love to hear them.

Cheers,

tabernac

anniesprinkles

@tabernac You're awesome tabernac! You always go above and beyond with your help and advise! Thank You

Tetator

Hey all
I'm pretty new to the game (only survivors Level 12). Here are my best survivors for each class. Would you recommend keeping and investing or not worth investing ?
Thanks in advance for your inspired advices

tabernac

@Tetator

First and foremost, keep all Survivors if they are producing value.

*Full Disclosure* I don't really care about Outpost defense that much at all.

Here are my thoughts in terms of investing in them:

Hunter Sarah - If she picked up Luck as her 5th trait, I'd still be on the fence about her. I'd take just about any other trait other than Bullet Dodge for her. First and foremost Ruthless, followed by Iron Skin, Dodge, Vigilant, Revenge. I probably wouldn't invest in her.

Scout Willy - Not a fan of Vigilant on Scouts. Wouldn't invest.

Shooter Jacqueline - Not perfect, but solid. Would invest in.

Warrior Christina - Hinges on that 5th trait for me. If she pulled Luck, I'd invest in her.

Bruiser Roy - I like Roy. Like that you have him equipped with Armor that has Gold Iron Skin. Makes him a nice sturdy Bruiser. Would invest in.

princess0115

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the game and new to the forum and there alot I'm trying to figure out. strategy being one of them. Reading your post and I came across terms I don't understand. Like what is a Nimble Survivor?

Tetator

Thanks Tabernac. Your feedback is very much appreciated

anniesprinkles

@princess0115 said: Like what is a Nimble Survivor?

nimble: able to move quickly, easily, and lightly

Like, the survivor had to dodge nimbly to avoid the walkers powerful grip.

Pig

@princess0115 It would be interesting to hear @tabernac's own explanation of what he means by nimble, but here's how I understand it.

A nimble survivor is one you use for opening crates, running to exits, etc. They'd also be good for killing normal walkers. A damage survivor is for killing, and especially killing tough enemies like humans and special walkers.

Some missions might require all nimble or all damage survivors, but many missions will take a mixture. For example, you might have a damage hunter and damage shooter covering a nimble scout who opens crates.

Mabiki

The first post in this thread lists the traits @tabernac considers ideal for a "nimble" survivor.