[ANALYSIS] Walker, equipment, and survivor progression

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  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,656
    Thank goodness for screenshots?





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  • CaptainslayerCaptainslayer Member Posts: 1,424
    I read your post @BiggyGuyinTWD it didn't seem toxic but my interpretation of whats toxic and what isn't usually gets me in conflict with the mods so I'm no expert lol
    Elder of dragons weyr a top USA guild
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,656
    Quite possibly I deleted it myself, one to many edits...? I had just clicked save, refresh, and POOF! it was gone.



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  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,111
    @BiggyGuyinTWD get your account verified. Your message was stuck in the spam filter. It's been released but until your account is verified it will keep happening.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,656
    zbot said:

    @BiggyGuyinTWD get your account verified. Your message was stuck in the spam filter. It's been released but until your account is verified it will keep happening.

    Hmmmm... weird. How do I do that?



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
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  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited May 2017
    Let me know because I made a straightforward, honest assessment and asked very direct questions on page 4 of this and have not received a response. It sucks but the easiest way to get a response from mods is to be toxic and offensive. At least then questions are recognized.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    DonCoqui
  • TeeceezyTeeceezy Staff Posts: 3,577
    @Guapo We're reading all the comments and responses in here and we appreciate the feedback very much.
    CaptainslayerATLAS-Zromeo
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited May 2017
    @Teeceezy
    And we appreciate all the time it must take to read them all! Just some quickies...

    1. Why is it only players at level 21 who have it more difficult to produce the same results before?

    2. Shouldn't better rewards for upgrading and playing at a higher difficulty be a given?

    3. Why choose a guild reward system as the place to reduce rewards for level 21 players (again, difficulty does not go up for all levels before the same way)?

    4. When other updates are rolled out to fix issues immediately, why must players wait to see "if" this is fixed?

    If you can't answer them fine, but if you could, it would go a long way toward addressing where we all are.


    PS This is a condensed repost and I apologize, but I know I'd feel better if at least these were addressed.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    PigDavid_H79romeo
  • TeeceezyTeeceezy Staff Posts: 3,577
    @Guapo I hope we can address this to the whole community as soon as possible. :)
    GuapoPig
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    Aaaauuuuuggghhh! The dreaded "soon"! And tagged with a 'hope". Alright, at least I know you guys are hearing it. Time to try to keep what's left of my guild (was #1 in US before update) from quitting game. It's the ones we care about we hurt the most, right? That explains it. :smiley:
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    Jadenvshield50romeo
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,299
    @DonCoqui

    Thanks, I was only counting 14 and 18 stars missed. Thought it was small difference. If it is 106 then that is a big hit. This sucks for me. I would have gotten 1080 this week just playing for free.
    DonCoquiromeo
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    While a player who upgraded from level 20 to level 21 "loses" out on 106 stars (from 14, 19.2 and 19.3) they also "gain" the ability to go deeper into the challenge rounds. A level 20 player who maxes out to level 25 (3 stars every level to 25.3) vs. level 21 player who maxes out to level 26 (3 stars every level to 26.3). IOW, the level 21 player "gains" 3 levels of 26.

    (26+18)*3=132

    Of course, this is all theoretical, as is this entire post.
    GuapoPigCaptainslayerDonCoqui
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    @unum Unfortunately that's not the case. Even players earning 1K+ stars each week are seeing a decrease in stars they earn by around 100 because the lvl21 survivors only get as far along as the lvl20 survivors bc of the balance issues--and that's with fully leveled, kick-ass gear. Still waiting for NG to do something about this. Too many players regret leveling up their team, I'm among them.
    unumPigDonCoqui
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    I agree to a point. All they need to do is have level 21 gear scale linearly like it does from 15-20 and problem solved. There doesn't need to be a 69/70 fix that people are complaining about. There is no doubt that a level 21 survivor will have better results against a level 26 walker than a level 20 survivor will have (in regards to body shots) everything else being equal.
    GuapoDavid_H79PigCaptainslayer
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    > @sbf said:
    > @unum Unfortunately that's not the case. Even players earning 1K+ stars each week are seeing a decrease in stars they earn by around 100 because the lvl21 survivors only get as far along as the lvl20 survivors

    This is not supported by any factual evidence. Not regarding pink stars, gear, crits, traits, charged attacks, etc hitting a walker 5+ stars above will always result in a body shot. It then stands to reason that a survivor, even one level, above another survivor will have an easier time getting through a round. For example, If I start getting all body shots at round 25 and you start getting them at round 26, it makes a huge difference as to how far we can each advance.
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    @JayZ I agree completely about the growing pains of leveling up survivors and gear to a new level, but if the gear scaled linearly for every survivor level that would be the same problem for everyone making a jump in level, whether it was 20 to 21, 15 to 16 or whatever.

    Also, as to whether a player making the jump to 21 can "gain" back those 106 stars "lost" by going deeper into a challenge is debatable. 3 entire high level rounds of not dealing with all body shots can make a big difference though. That's all I'm trying to say. Without knowing NG's algorithms exactly, no amount of anecdotal evidence will "prove" anything.
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    edited May 2017
    I hate to use NG to prove anything about NG, but they did specifically say they reduced the increase for 21s to make it harder for them. I don't know how else to take that.

    Yes, 106 is the maximum stars. To lose that many based on the update would be a sign of personal failure, not the game.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    jimmorrison369Pig
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    @Guapo you're still not understanding my point. Those 106 stars can be gained back by being able to go further into the challenge missions. 18 (3 rounds of 6) extra missions without 100% body shots makes a huge difference. Yes, I understand because the gear didn't scale linearly makes it more difficult to gain them back, but unless we know the exact algorithm NG uses to determine body shots, damages, etc the only data we have to look at is anecdotal.
    DonCoqui
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    edited May 2017
    If you think about it, the only real reason to promote your survivors to level 21 is for challenges... nothing else in the game improves... scavenging, outposts, season 7 missions, and storyline... all of these things can be done using level 20 survivors...(maybe lvl 21 will help with nightmare mode).

    But as we all know, level 21 actually hurts you in challenges... so I fail to see how NG thinks this is a good plan... as a game developer, I would expect that their focus would be to allow ppl to make more stars in challenges... not less... and what is even more upsetting is that the simple fix of just starting everyone at RSL 14 would resolve the majority of the complaints... yet they refuse to do that too...



    Captainslayerromeo
  • unumunum Member Posts: 55
    @Guapo on that point I completely agree. It's on the way to fix it that I differ. Having 21s sleep walk through 14, 19.2 and 19.3 is an easy fix, but not a good one. The whole point of the new challenge structure was to avoid the tedium that the old way was. Personally, I'd like to see everything scale linearly (gear/walker hp and strength) like it does for every other level. That way, if they decide to add a level 22 everything still stays the same, they just start one level up.

    @Teeceezy says they are aware of this and are looking at ways to alleviate some of the pain in the 2.6 update. I really hope they do. It obviously has a lot of hard core players frustrated.
    David_H79Guapo
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 990
    That isn't disagreeing with me on how to fix it. I totally agree, I'm fine with the current start level for challenge, because it's the same scaled to level (rsl - 6 for everyone is fine imo).
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    Pig
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    unum said:

    > @sbf said:

    > @unum Unfortunately that's not the case. Even players earning 1K+ stars each week are seeing a decrease in stars they earn by around 100 because the lvl21 survivors only get as far along as the lvl20 survivors



    This is not supported by any factual evidence. Not regarding pink stars, gear, crits, traits, charged attacks, etc hitting a walker 5+ stars above will always result in a body shot. It then stands to reason that a survivor, even one level, above another survivor will have an easier time getting through a round. For example, If I start getting all body shots at round 25 and you start getting them at round 26, it makes a huge difference as to how far we can each advance.

    @unum You're right, I can only give anecdotal evidence from everyone in my guild who has leveled up, and all of those who have posted on the forum. I was too loose and too general with that statement as I should have been. The model of the challenges should be set up so that those with maxed survivors with maxed gear at lvl21 (survivor traits are factors, as are gear traits and pink stars) should be receiving more stars than before and should be able to get further along within the challenges relative to where they started, as that would be the incentive to level up. Perhaps you're one of the few who has seen an increase in challenge stars from leveling up, and if that's the case, wonderful. Saying that all I have to go on is anecdotal evidence also means that what you're saying is either based on anecdotal evidence or blind faith in NG. We're not getting much transparency from them, and that is an enormous problem. The goal of this conversation is to bring awareness to NG that players are losing interest because the time it took to level up their crew is not reflected in the rewards earned by leveling up, which is a net negative for those who have already leveled up, and is a net negative for those holding off on leveling up since they would want to level up if they had a reason to. @Teeceezy says that this is a "massive problem" that players are upset about this, and I tend to agree. I hope they continue to work on it and come to some conclusions soon, and become more transparent in their handling of this issue. Until then, I will continue keeping this thread near the top in a non-toxic and as respectful manner as I can.
  • Kick_assKick_ass Member Posts: 513
    @JayZ. Amazing post. There are so many players who are not on this forum that are just shaking their heads and quitting. It's sad to see this happening to such a great game and community. I've said before, companies need to listen to their customers. It much more difficult to keep an existing customer base than it is to bring in new customers. Thanks for all the effort pulling all these numbers together.

    Many players really just want to beat their personal best in challenges, when u take that away, interest drops significantly. No everyone is about leaderboards etc. They just want to improve their own game and see their guild thrive.

    Some props to NG, at least they attempt to communicate. My other companies don't give that courtesy.
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  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,656
    I'm happy this is being addressed. Thanks for all your data crunchiness @JayZ @OneLessTitan @DLich, you guys are da bomb looking out for us, and thanks @Teeceezy for NGs addressing the issue so promptly :-)



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
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    TeeceezySmittySpivey3DLichromeo
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