Question about damage calculations

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  • SmittySpivey3SmittySpivey3 Member Posts: 324
    @DLich I read the warning and ignored it. I died reading the thread. I am now a ghost agast at gastly math threads. Great work dude, excellent information.
    GindyArtisans
  • snafusnafu Member Posts: 227
    @DLich, I had Abraham in leader position.
    DLichGarret
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    @snafu you're trying to give me a heart attack here LOL. I just tried moving survivors around on teams etc... When I move my survivors into a team with abraham as the leader i'm not noticing a change in the stat's that are displayed. I even entered into a mission, flee'd and saw no difference.

    Does having abraham in the leader spot change the stats of the other two that are on the team for atk and health display?

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  • snafusnafu Member Posts: 227
    @Dlich, Abraham changes numbers displayed in health for all ranged survivors, but damage remains unchanged. Rufus as leader behaves the same way.
    1Ris
  • OneLessTitanOneLessTitan Member Posts: 1,273
    @DLich - Not sure if you've figured this out yet (too much math for me to read on a weekend)....Survivors health and damage ratings are based off of the Uncommon rating for each specific class for each level. Up to legendary status, there is a 10% boost to both damage and health (so uncommon is 1.1x common, rare is 1.2x common, epic 1.3x, legendary 1.4x), after that, each pink star is worth 5% (so 6* is 1.45x, 7 stars is 1.5x, etc).

  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    @OneLessTitan so the 5% bonus to health and attack is based off the health and attack of the survivor at a common level?

    So if I'm understanding this correctly

    Common is 1.0
    Uncommon is 1.1
    Rare is 1.2
    Epic is 1.3
    Legendary is 1.4
    1 pink is 1.45
    2 pink is 1.5
    3 pink is 1.55
    4 pink is 1.6
    5 pink is 1.65

    This would mean marksman on a 2 pink star survivor would do as much damage is a 5 pink star survivor without marksman assuming they are the same level with the same weapons?

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  • OneLessTitanOneLessTitan Member Posts: 1,273
    edited June 2017
    That is correct, and that marksman calculation should be right @DLich -- These base values are also used to modify the Heroes....Using Abraham as an example, he has a 10% damage boost and 15% health boost over the same prestige...so a Legendary Abe has 1.5x damage, and 1.55x health (not counting his marksman)
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    edited June 2017
    Question... If I have abraham in the leader position does he show false flag ratings for all members? Even those that aren't on the team?

    Meaning does simply having Abraham in the leader spot make it appear that every single survivor (regardless if they are the other two selected) show inflated numbers?

    ** edit I answered my own question. In the examples above I had abraham in leader but the survivors I was taking pics of weren't on the team. Back to the drawing board LOL

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    edited June 2017
    Speeds said:

    Hi.

    I love math. and I am not American, so I found this topic challenging :D
    That being said I think you carried over the percentages instead of applying them to the base value. As a demonstration, I'll use Dylan's example:

    "1146 survivor base damage as discovered above (but I will work in the order in which things are presented to the player)

    + 15% for strong (171.90) = 1146 + 171.90 = 1317.90 (rounded to 1318)
    + +5% for pink star (65.90) = 1318 + 65.90 = 1383.90 (rounded to 1384)
    + 1% for trait upgrade (13.84) = 1384 + 13.84 = 1397.84 (rounded to 1398)
    + 5% for 2nd pink star (69.9) = 1398 + 69.9 = 1467.90 (rounded to 1468)
    +2044 for weapon (no lethal) = 1468 + 2044 = 3512 (but it's 3488) Did I miss something??"



    As you established 1146 is the base damage. So we should relate to this number while calculating the increments as follows:

    15% = 1146 * 15% = 171.90
    5% = 1146 * 5% = 57.3
    1% = 1146 * 5% = 11.46

    Using the obtained values we perform addition:
    1146 + 171.9 + 57.3 + 57.3 + 11.46 + 2044 = 3487.96. Rounded up to 3488

    @DLich try to apply this formula to the health as well, see if it fits.

    The problem is 1146 may work for Dylan but not for Evan

    I follow your math

    15% of 1146 = 171.9 for Strong lvl 5 15%
    1% of 1146 = 11.46 for the 6th Strong extra 1%
    5% of 1146 = 57.3 for 1st Pink Star
    5% of 1146 = 57.3 for 2nd Pink Star
    +2044 for the weapon

    1146 + 26% = 1444 + 2044 = 3488

    BUT

    Apply 1146 to Evan..

    15% of 1146 = 171.9 for Strong lvl 5 15%
    5% of 1146 = 57.3 for 1 Pink Star
    + 1719 for weapon

    1146 + 171.9 + 57.3 = 1375.2 + 1719 = 3094.2 rounded to 3094... But the display is showing 3103 which is a difference of 19 points... so 1146 can't work for both.. it only works for one not both.

    Upon further research it seems the base number that Marksman and Strong are applied to are different from the base number that pink stars are applied to.

    Using the hunter (I'm not going to re post screen shots) it seems that Pink stars are based off 780 for atk (39 additional damage = 5%) and 880 for defense (44 additional health = 5%); But marksman is being based off 947.

    I removed abraham from the leader spot and realized atk is unchanged (so the atk must be calculated somehow in battle or not being calculated at all) but the health was being calculated. The screen shots above had abraham in leader trait.. When I removed abraham from leader I noticed health went down but not attack.

    So...

    Melinda with 12% marksman has 1093 atk minus 32 for weapon = 1061
    Melinda with 15% marksman has 1121 atk minus 32 for weapon = 1089
    Joe with 15% marksman and 1 pink star has 1160 atk minus 32 for weapon = 1128
    Peter with 16% marksman has 1138 atk minus 32 for weapon = 1138 atk

    I have found the base number being calculated for marksman on legendary + as 947

    Melinda 12% marksman = 947 + 12% = 947 + 113.64 = 1060.64 rounded to 1061
    Melinda 15% marksman = 947 + 15% = 947 + 142.05 = 1089.05 rounded to 1089
    Joe 15% marksman = 947 + 15% = 947 + 142.05 = 1089.05 rounded to 1089 + 39 for pink star = 1128
    Peter 16% marksman = 947 + 16% = 947 + 151.52 = 1098.52 rounded to 1099 + 39 for pink star = 1138

    So Marksman for Legendary & pink stars (lvl 4 & higher) is calculated using base 947 as atk

    Marksman lvl 4 (12%) = added 113.64 rounded to 114
    Marksman lvl 5 (15%) = added 142.05 rounded to 142 (28 =
    Marksman lvl 6 (16%) = added 151.52 rounded to 152 (+10)
    Marksman lvl 7 (17%) = added 160.99 rounded to 161 (+9)
    Marksman lvl 8 (18%) = added 170.46 rounded to 170 (+9)
    Marksman lvl 9 (19%) = added 179.93 rounded to 180 (+10)
    Marksman lvl 10 (20%) = added 189.4 rounded to 189 (+9)

    Since the difference between atk & health between 5 star legendary and 6 star pink is 39 on atk & 44 on health then it's using a different number... about 780 base atk and 880 base health.

    So to recap... (LONG STORY SHORT)

    The 5% added when you get a pink star is calculated from a number other than the percentage calculation for marksman. I don't know if that's suppose to be the case. As @OneLessTitan mentioned it would be logical that the 5% atk boost and health boost given when added pink stars is based off the atk and defense of what the common atk and damage would be at that survivor type.

    It is grossly misleading then.

    At least I figured out why the marksman value differs from the pink star promotion values.

    ** edit this would mean everytime you promote a hunter from 5 star legendary through 5 star pink the same values of 39 atk and 44 health are added each time.

    Promote to 1 pink star add 39 atk and 44 health. Promote to 2 pink star add another 39 atk and another 44 health. Promote to 3 pink star add another 39 atk and another 44 health. Etc

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    Can someone post a picture of a 7 star or 8 star Hunter that doesn't have Abraham in the leader position?

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  • David_H79David_H79 Member Posts: 1,866
    Here we go @DLich
    DLichPutchuco
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 807
    Here's a 7 Star @DLich

    She's in the leader position herself and I stripped down her weapons (don't know if that helps take out variables or not....)


    DLich
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    edited June 2017
    Thanks @David_H79

    2776 - 1398 = 1378
    3 pinks
    10% lethal = 1398 x 10% = 139.8
    Marksman 18% = 947 x 18% = 170.46

    1378 - 139.8 (10% lethal) = 1232.8 rounded 1233


    947 base + 170.46 for 18% marksman + 139.8 for 10% lethal = 1257.26 rounded to 1257

    1378 - 1257 = 121

    39 for 1st pink + 39 for 2nd + 39 for 3rd pink = 117. There's a difference of 4 BUT I think I figured it out.

    Starting with 0 stars calculated from 780 (based on 5% added atk being 39 based on my calculations earlier this thread) I believe stars are compounded.

    780 + 5% = 780 + 39 = 819 (one pink star)
    819 + 5% = 819 + 40.95 = 859.95 (two pink stars)
    860 + 5% = 860 + 43 = 903 (three pink stars)

    39 + 41 + 43 = 123. We're 2 too high.

    So modify the theorem number to 770 holds true still...

    Atk is based off 770!!!

    770 + 5% = 770 + 38.5 (rounded to 39) = 809
    809 + 5% = 809 + 40.45 (rounded to 40) = 849
    849 + 5% = 849 + 42.45 (rounded to 42) = 891

    39 + 40 + 42 = 121

    Going further we can determine
    891 + 5% = 891 + 44.55 (rounded to 45) = 936
    936 + 5% = 936 + 46.8 (rounded to 47) = 989


    So....

    1398 = weapon
    140 = silver lethal
    170 = marksman
    947 = hunters base damage
    39 = 1st pink star
    40 = 2nd pink star
    42 = 3rd pink star
    Equals 2776

    When you promote him to 9 stars it'll add another 45 damage. When you upgrade his marksman to 9 it'll add another 10 damage. When you promote him to 10 stars it'll add another 47 damage. When you upgrade his marksman to Lvl 10 it'll add another 9 damage.

    Marksman percentage is based off 947 and is not compounded the higher you go. 20% marksman is 189 bonus.

    Promotions are compounded starting with 770. 5% of 770 is the amount added to 6 star on atk. Then take that new number anger rounding (809) and add another 5% etc.

    Pink stars are compounded and marksman is not compounded.

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,547
    edited June 2017
    @tabernac yours is harder to calculate cause I'm basing my numbers off Lvl 21 survivors. I'll try and run numbers for your Lvl 20 but it might be off.

    Added

    1013 atk - 23 weapon is base 990

    947 + 16% marksman =


    39 added for 1st pink star
    40 added for 2nd pink star
    79 for pinks

    990 - 79 = 911

    If 911 includes 16% marksman that must mean the base atk at Lvl 20 legendary would be 785

    785 = base
    126 = 16% marksman
    39 added for 1st pink star
    40 added for 2nd pink star
    23 added for weapon

    Equals 1013

    ** note. I cannot conclude that 39 and 40 for pink stars are the same on Lvl 20 as compared to Lvl 21 and for that reason alone I cannot submit this as a final answer.

    I believe it's lower than 39 & 40 respectively because I believe the 770 start on legendaries only applies to Lvl 21's and not to all lvl's across the board. This means the base level of the survivor is higher but since I have no other data to compare it too it's hard to conclude.

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  • OneLessTitanOneLessTitan Member Posts: 1,273
    edited June 2017
    https://twdnomansland.wordpress.com/survivor-base-damagehealth-values/

    Here's the damage/health values for all survivor classes, but I haven't updated it to include the 4% (ish) boost to damage for level 21 survivors and the health buff for level 19/20/21s, and I'm fairly certain the Heroes are out of date. Some may be off by 1 or 2 because of rounding. I will try to update it next week after we get level 22s.
    1RisPutchucoDLich
  • zeeblackzeeblack Member Posts: 1,252
    @DLich, one of the best posts so far, though the maths have immensely hurt my brains and now I am getting nightmares. ;)

    I recently upgraded epic Rosita to level 21 and got a 7% increase in both health and damage. I would be doing the maths when my brain is back to normal.

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  • SpeedsSpeeds Member Posts: 64
    @DLich
    I reran the calculations using OLT database. The calculations hold true if @OneLessTitan can confirm that the "4% ish" damage boost to lvl 21's is actually 3.6%.
    OLT, Please let us know!

    So, calculations for Brenda:

    Hunter Based damage @ lvl 21 with 8 stars, based on OLT database = 1013
    Compensation of damage boost at 3.6% = 36.46
    Total Hunter base damage @ lvl 21, 8 star = 1013 + 36.46 = 1049.46

    Weapon base = 1398
    Silver Lethal = 139.8
    Total Weapon = 1398 + 139.8 = 1537.8

    MM @ lvl 8 = 1049.46 * 18% = 188.90


    Total = 1049.46 + 1537.8 + 188.90 = 2776.17 , rounded down to 2776
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