Penalized for Upgrading

Troublemaker

Being PENALIZED for upgrading my survivors is probably "working as intended", since support team clearly does not understand what's going on with star production of veteran and end-game players, as we all know lower levels repeat earlier and get much more stars.

Here's what NG had to answer me:




Let me frame this on the wall for a while:

"If you have a team of level 22 survivors, then the difficulty of the challenges will be the same as for a level 21 survivors".

What is the mathematics being applied here? 1 kg of feather weights MORE than 1 kg of iron?

I feel so disrespected... By the choices, by the answers... My faith in humanity lower with these things. Honestly.

Poppy

Working as Intended because in NG tiny bubble world this makes senses.

Tripod

21 and 22 start at the same rsl of 15, unfortunately you don't start repeating maps until rsl 21. Lvl 21 survivors team starts repeatable maps at lvl 20. So I believe you are missing 33 stars that a lvl 21 team gets to make.

Gladi

@rfg1982 Not going to defend NG here, but I would guess that ppl on this forum already realized, how increasing survs lvl work. Sry for your dissapointment mate, but if you missed this issue on previous survs upgrade, you really was not reading this forum.
Not defending their way of answering, it is poor indeed, at least ommiting you need upgraded lvl22(to lvl25) gear and that you will miss 2 rounds of RSL20. On the other side, all players are in same boat with this. Lowbies also get their starting/repeating RSL increased, as well as mid players and veterans.

Troublemaker

FearMeDaryl said:

21 and 22 start at the same rsl of 15, unfortunately you don't start repeating maps until rsl 21. Lvl 21 survivors team starts repeatable maps at lvl 20. So I believe you are missing 33 stars that a lvl 21 team gets to make.

Thanks for the explanation but all end game players know that.

The point is asking NG about how they conclude this is the best thing to do since it does not make any sense at all.

sligoem

tiny bubble world

Troublemaker

Gladi said:

@rfg1982 Not going to defend NG here, but I would guess that ppl on this forum already realized, how increasing survs lvl work. Sry for your dissapointment mate, but if you missed this issue on previous survs upgrade, you really was not reading this forum.
Not defending their way of answering, it is poor indeed, at least ommiting you need upgraded lvl22(to lvl25) gear and that you will miss 2 rounds of RSL20. On the other side, all players are in same boat with this. Lowbies also get their starting/repeating RSL increased, as well as mid players and veterans.

Sure. Thanks for engaging.

I didn't miss anything. I chose to upgrade anyway. Point here is understanding how NG thinks this is the best choice for the game as it contradicts logic ("if you upgrade you get punished").

David_H79

I have upgraded more than two survivors to level 22 too.
I'm in the same boat. After this challenge I realized it would have been cleverer to upgrade only two until you have enough level 22 gear farmed.
You get those stars, if you have all the gear you need found and upgraded.
The problem for me here is to find equivalent gear, that is comparable to the base level 21 stuff I already use.

capibara

I had the same problems when i upgraded all my survivors from lvl 20 to 21. It tooks me few months to earn again when maxed at 21 and weapons to 24 the same stars i was earning when i was maxed at 20 with 23 weapons.
That's why now i have only two lvl 22 and i will not upgrade more because i earn 1100+ stars x challenge and is enough for the time i have to play...

vshield50

It really is a bastard strategy that NG developed. Thier logic seems to be that since you do not have a full team (3 survivors at lvl 21) then you are still considered lvl 21 for RSL purposes. Sucks though because I will not unlock new heros or upgrade anyone else until the next update.

Bill_ZRT

vshield50 said:

It really is a bastard strategy that NG developed. Thier logic seems to be that since you do not have a full team (3 survivors at lvl 21) then you are still considered lvl 21 for RSL purposes. Sucks though because I will not unlock new heros or upgrade anyone else until the next update.

I agree that this is a poor design. NG has continuously said that they don't want end game players to be penalized for upgrading, but this clearly does for months until you have a fully maxed out team with fully maxed out gear. I'm guessing that they think they're doing players a favor by having them do less rounds with later repeats, but since it's at the cost of more stars, it doesn't make sense.

How about this for a design (and read the whole thing before judging)... keep the repeat level constant. Let's say that the repeat level is 15 (but it could easily be 16, 17, 18 etc). Use the current calculation that determines repeat RSL to determine what repeat levels a player has to actually play. The player gets credit for the levels from the starting RSL (18) to the level that the formula says they should repeat at (let's say 20).

EDIT:The TL:DR version is, instead of increasing the repeat RSL, just increase the level at which you have to PLAY the repeat RSL, otherwise you get bonus stars as if you completed the lower repeat levels.

I realize this in confusing, so here is an example:

Repeat levels start at 15 for ALL PLAYERS.
You are a player who has all 22 level survivors. Based on the current chart that means:

• Starting RSL is 15
  
• Repeat RSL is 21
  

If you were to play 3 rounds of RSL 15 and you 3 starred each level, each level would get you 15+18 stars or 33 stars (99 stars total for 3 rounds). However, since the formula says you only need to start playing repeat rounds at RSL 21. when you play RSL 15, you only need to play one round and you get the other two rounds of stars (66) as bonus stars for a total of 99 stars for completing one level of RSL 15. The same goes for levels 16-20 and when you hit level 21, you actually have to play those three rounds.

Yes, someone would have to do some math to figure out the right starting level.
Yes, rewards might need to be tweaked a bit.
However, this means that you are NEVER penalized for upgrading and that people who are a higher level should always get more stars than those over a lower level (all other variables being equal).

Troublemaker

I say fixing the repeats at RSL 21 for everyone should probably be an easier and optimal fix.

Less grind for newcomers, fair competition for end-gamers.

Bill_ZRT

Or just do away with repeats altogether, but that would take some serious reward restructuring.

Whisperer

Is it just me or stayin with lvl 20 survivors is the best option..?

Mabiki

Maxed-level players:
"New players shouldn't get free Negan tokens that I don't get. It's not FAIR! It should be same for everyone!"

Maxed-level players, again:
"My challenge advancement shouldn't follow the same rules as everybody else. I should start at same RSL as people a level below me and get all the same repeats so i get a distinct advantage, even though advancing through every other survivor level follows the old rules equally. It's not FAIR!"

Bill_ZRT

Not sure if that's supposed to be directed at me, @Mabiki but for the record, neither of those statements reflects by feelings one either topic.

SlickRick

Maxed level players:
"Just be fair and try to be transparent with us and not continually screw us over"

Maxed level players:
"Who gives a flying fuddruckers about Negan tokens"

Mabiki:
"Sorry my nose is so far up NG's ass I can smell the corn they ate for dinner last night"

Mabiki

SlickRick said:

Maxed level players:
"Just be fair and try to be transparent with us and not continually screw us over"

Maxed level players:
"Who gives a flying fuddruckers about Negan tokens"

Mabiki:
"Sorry my nose is so far up NG's ass I can smell the corn they ate for dinner last night"

SlickRick: I can't handle general criticism of player double standards so reply like an obnoxious child."

Dude, you're a poopyhead @SlickRick

@Bill_ZRT it's a general statement on the BS some people here love. It's fine to say (not that you did) maxed players should get more. It's dumb to couch it as fairness.

ant

Whisperer said:

Is it just me or stayin with lvl 20 survivors is the best option..?

I believe the new sweet spot is to have 1 level 22 and the remaining at level 20, until you get enough gear to warrant the upgrade to 21s. Then I would roll with 2 lvl 20s and the rest at 21.

Bill_ZRT

Mabiki said:

@Bill_ZRT it's a general statement on the BS some people here love. It's fine to say (not that you did) maxed players should get more. It's dumb to couch it as fairness.

Let's not confuse fairness with equality. It's fair that max level players should get more stars and therefore more rewards than non-max level players. It's fair that players who spend WAY more than I do on this game have better survivors, better gear and get more stars than I do. It's fair that players who have more time to devote to playing the game have an advantage in terms of in-game resources and with challenge stars. I could spend more money on the game, but I choose not to. I could spend more time playing the game, but I have a demanding job, a family and other priorities that I choose over the game, and I'm 100% okay with this. These things are all fair. People with more time and money to spend should have an advantage over players who don't.

What doesn't seem fair is that I upgrade my team to level 21 and begin upgrading my gear to 21 but I have a hard time getting the same amount of stars that I did when I was level 20 with maxed out survivors and gear. It doesn't seem to make sense that with stronger survivors and better gear, I get fewer stars not because I'm performing worse than I was before, but because of the formulas that NG uses for starting RSL and repeating RSL. That seems unfair.

WeekOne

.....

Troublemaker

@Mabiki you clearly do not get what's at discussion here. Sorry.

Mabiki

@rfg1982
I'm quite sure I get it, i just hold a minority opinion. That is apparently equivalent to being an NG brown-noser to some infantile minds (not directed at you) incapable of disagreement without insult, let alone dialogue. But I will relent. I'm sure I have my weekly disagree quota after today.

DLich

rfg1982 said:

FearMeDaryl said:

21 and 22 start at the same rsl of 15, unfortunately you don't start repeating maps until rsl 21. Lvl 21 survivors team starts repeatable maps at lvl 20. So I believe you are missing 33 stars that a lvl 21 team gets to make.

Thanks for the explanation but all end game players know that.

The point is asking NG about how they conclude this is the best thing to do since it does not make any sense at all.

you're actually missing 20.2 & 20.3 so it's 18 + 20 + 18 + 20 = 76 stars you're being screwed out of. Source

vshield50

> @Mabiki said:
> @rfg1982
> I'm quite sure I get it, i just hold a minority opinion. That is apparently equivalent to being an NG brown-noser to some infantile minds (not directed at you) incapable of disagreement without insult, let alone dialogue. But I will relent. I'm sure I have my weekly disagree quota after today.

This would be all good and well but sometimes you make initial statements and then your corroboration of those statements completely derails your point.

@Bill_ZRT said it well above.

Sometimes I just think you disagree or take a "minority" opinion for the drama that it may cause.

If you backed your statements with factual arguments or referred to some proof for your claims, I would take you much more serious.

Movado

@Bill_ZRT your idea seems like a workable option. But to add another option for consideration, an alternative can also be where the starting RSL goes up one, BUT the triple-rounds remain at same. So if using current update as example, if player upgrades 3 or more survivors to 22, then starting rsl is 16, but trip-rounds still start at 20. It minimizes the initial lost stars to only 33, but I think it could help motivate more players to upgrade with the idea they could make that up easily with a full crew of 22's and not feel screwed over. I know NG wants to maintain some incremental progression, but I'm not sure why NG did the opposite method and I feel they may have went about it backwards in doing the inverse of that.

vshield50

Well said @Movado . Completely agree! Thanks for explaining your position so well and providing examples to back your argument

capibara

But... I'm still confused about repetitions....why we need to repeat the lvls 3 times? ...has something to do with "sexual innuendo"?? ...

vshield50

@Capibara,

If at first you don't succeed.... Not sure if Rodents have that issue though

I think what is decently clear as that something should be changed so that we would be encouraged to upgrade all of our survivors. I only upgraded 2 this time and am doing better already without optimal gear.

tallinie

I made the mistake of upgrading more than two survivors to lvl 21 after earlier camp upgrade. Now at camp level 63 I have made sure to upgrade only two survivors to lvl 22 and not a single one more...

SlickRick

Spot on @Movado ...only problem I see is your idea makes far too much sense for them

Only fact I know...seeing as how NG is giving us incentive NOT to upgrade...and upgrade fast as I've been known to do on every past update...I have clearly spent far less money on this update than any of the past updates...so my wallet thanks you NG