I am quite happy with this. For reference, like many here I am PL63 with many lvl 22's. I rarely get a gas booster or use gold for gas. Starting at RSL 15 has been boring for a while. Even rounds at 20/21/22 are not much of a challenge, and now those will be the warm up rounds with much better post mission reward crate amounts than RSL 15/16/17. And the 120 gas recouped by skipping rounds will allow me to go a little further as 120 gas = 20 hours (10 min per gas). I just got an extra day on the challenge!
And yes, the repeats are a grind too. Please, it's better to remove the repeats and make it just one round per RSL with increasing difficulty from one RSL to the next.
> @vshield50 said: > > @rfg1982 said: > > I'm amazed by this and can't say enough thanks. The grinding was killing my life. > > Truly. Guess I will be able to throw the ball to the dog again
Actually, sadly, Ithink the grinding will stay the same if you read @Shteevie 's comment.
You will auto-skip some lower levels but with the new badges you should be able to get to a lot higher RSL than now -- which means you might be playing just as many missions (but at higher difficulty and with higher rewards).
NG gives us the chance to skip rounds and people are upset about not getting Lvl 15 rewards anymore?
The star difference although cool isn't make or break. The gas not having to be used on lower RSL is the real winner here.
I'll take saving 24 gas over opening 18 RSL 15 level crates any day. I'll instead use that gas to play scavenger missions and get RSL 23 level crates or play 12 outpost maps and get 6K TG's
| OG | NOC | USA | UK | CA | CQR | UC | RAD | ZEN |
Who cares about 'missing out' on the mission crates considering:
We get to eliminate part of the grind (woohoo!)
The rewards, particularly gear at these low levels are not actually valuable
You haven't spent any gas or your valuable time on these low levels. If you want to invest that time and gas into level appropriate scavenge missions or outpost raids for TGs you're free to do so (credit @DLich with this observation).
Very much looking forward to trying this out and skipping the first several levels which might give me enough time to play The Distance. Very much looking forward to something that reduces the grind associated with challenges.
Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart. But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
Actually, sadly, I think the grinding will stay the same if you read @Shteevie 's comment.
You will auto-skip some lower levels but with the new badges you should be able to get to a lot higher RSL than now -- which means you might be playing just as many missions (but at higher difficulty and with higher rewards).
Right?
Possibly, but it's a matter of perspective for me. I define "grinding" as un-challenging and mindless actions repeated over and over. I can almost do normal level Scavenge missions with my eyes closed. At the higher levels there is always (for me) going to be a heightened level of engagement, which is welcome.
> > I'm amazed by this and can't say enough thanks. The grinding was killing my life.
>
> Truly. Guess I will be able to throw the ball to the dog again
Actually, sadly, Ithink the grinding will stay the same if you read @Shteevie 's comment.
You will auto-skip some lower levels but with the new badges you should be able to get to a lot higher RSL than now -- which means you might be playing just as many missions (but at higher difficulty and with higher rewards).
Right?
I'm going to 'wait and see' with this one. If badge components and crafting are going to be on par with pink stars (as in an equally long process) then it's not going to impact me much. I'm going to slowly gather components and slowly created badges and add them to survivors. I have two 7 star survivors and maybe 5ish six star survivors and while they certainly help, it doesn't have me grinding a considerably longer time than before I had them.
If someone is the kind of player who will buy every component bundle (just as some players already buy every gear and gold bundle they can and have a fully upgraded set of survivors 2 hours after an update with a Training Grounds upgrade) then I would imagine this would mean more grinding for them... but that's their choice.
Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart. But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
I know I'm in the minority here, but this makes me nervous. I LIKE starting at level 15, I LIKE having some easy levels to try out different strategies, explore the maps and work out how I want to do things when I get to the higher levels. I LIKE being able to use Maggie or The Governor to increase rewards in the early levels. I can't use them later on because they're not good enough to go once I get to RSL 24.
It would really be wonderful if there was an option to skip round passes, so that those of us who WANT to play the early levels could do so. Please?
Pros Grind reduced and time sink reduced More stars
Cons Missing out on min between 18-54 box openings per round each of which is an opportunitty to earn radios, gold, fuel, and the new crafting stuff which I also belive is not level specific (which is likely the reason they have actually done this) Times that by 5 thats a hell of a lot of opportunities.
Missing out on the scrap xp and supplies Missing out on the XP from kills Sure these may not seem alot on mission but with the amount been skipped they add up.
Ultimately you will be receiving less stuff overall wether you agree with me or not it doesn't matter because it is what it is, the double stuff you get from the passes just simply wont add up to the missing resources accumulated from the missing missions. The biggest increase will be stars but we dont spend stars, stars are not a resource and the double up may earn you a couple of rewards more which again do not equal the lost rewards from the crates even if they are lower level.
Finally only last week they said stars will always have to be earned, that was obviously not the truth or they have very quickly changed their mind and developed this in a week.
Assuming there is no other changes in store for the challenges (triple round starting the same as it does in 2.6) this is a short look at the differences.
The example I used listed in the "2.7" columns assumes you use 5 passes. The second section showing "rounds" is actually the rounds you play (since you are earning double stars each round)
Cons Missing out on min between 18-54 box openings per round each of which is an opportunitty to earn radios, gold, fuel, and the new crafting stuff which I also belive is not level specific (which is likely the reason they have actually done this) Times that by 5 thats a hell of a lot of opportunities.
Missing out on the scrap xp and supplies Missing out on the XP from kills
Essentially this is all the same thing regarding not playing 5 rounds and I understand your frustration regarding it I'm just trying to see it as an opportunity to try and alleviate any frustrations.
4 gas a level x 6 levels = 24 gas x 5 maps = 120 gas 120 gas will get you 30 challenge maps ranging RSL (assuming you're an end game player) 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
So you are missing out on all the things those 30 challenge maps offer, xp from kills, scrapped supplies from lower level things, rsl appropriate xp and supplies etc.
if a scavenger map is 5 gas then you can play 24 scavenger maps finding more appropriate level things with that 120 gas instead.
So your overall loss is only 6 actual missions. Potential for 18 crates (if you only open 3) up to 54 crates (if you open all 9)
Instead of 6 maps at lvl 15; 6 maps at lvl 16, 6 maps at lvl 17; 6 maps at lvl 18; 6 maps at lvl 19 (30 total maps) you can (if you choose to) use that saved gas on playing 24 maps of scavenger RSL 23 (or whatever your survivor levels are). I am going to assume regarding supplies and xp they will average out. I am also going to assume that since the walkers are higher level your xp from kills are going to average out as well.
I agree you are losing out on 6 missions you can play comparing apples to apples, so yes there is technically some type of loss involved but not nearly the way in which it's being described.
| OG | NOC | USA | UK | CA | CQR | UC | RAD | ZEN |
@Poppy: You're not 'missing out' on rewards that you're not paying for.
If you want to say that you're missing out on the potential of those rewards or the opportunity to earn those rewards if you spent the gas to run the missions, time to play the missions and gold to open the 'extra' chests, then I understand what you're saying (this it more or less how I understand @TransmuteJun articulating her concern). If you're saying that you're being 'shorted' these rewards when you're not spending your time, gas or gold on them, then I don't follow you.
Damn, this post was still longer than anticipated.
Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart. But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
> @Putchuco said: > As @jrodfr2 pointed out- skipping some grind and getting double stars/tg is great, but missing end of mission crates sucks. > > Radios (and good gear drops) are hard enough to come by as it is. Maybe a solution could be to have each round pass unlock 3 additional end of mission crates for the round you do play. > > I dont see how we could miss out on 'good gear' in lvls 15-20
Lol, you are absolutely right there. I guess I hadn't completely thought that statement through. But the radios!
I hope I don't appear as coming off rude or anything as that's not my intention. I am also not singling anyone out. Poppy has a valid concern and I understand what he's saying.
I'm just using my mathematical prowess to try and help explain that although there is some loss regarding potential rewards that the loss is smaller than originally perceived.
Considering it takes 10 minutes to recoup 1 gas and there's 1,440 minutes in a day you're roughly not using 83% of a single days gas accumulation on the challenges anymore. BUT you can use that gas elsewhere in the game.
If a player feels that skipping 5 rounds will lose them 30 sets of rewards I wanted to portray an option for them and all other players to use that gas they aren't spending on the challenge on other modes. 4 gas for a challenge map and 5 gas for a scavenger mission is basically a rate of 5 challenge levels compared to 4 scavenger missions.
I'll conclude with I absolutely understand a players fear that they are missing out on something, but mathematically you are only missing out on 6 levels overall so...
In my opinion, skipping 5 challenge maps (30 missions) at the overall loss of all the resources playing 6 missions reward crates would be is minimal in comparison. This isn't to say a users feelings are minimal, it's my interpretation of the overall loss in general.
| OG | NOC | USA | UK | CA | CQR | UC | RAD | ZEN |
(this it more or less how I understand @TransmuteJun articulating her concern). If you're saying that you're being 'shorted' these rewards when you're not spending your time, gas or gold on them, then I don't follow you.
That's part of it. I enjoy playing the challenges far more than the scavenge missions, and I see myself being forced to start the challenge at a higher level and play fewer missions before I am done. Add to that I am missing out on cheaper (4 gas) missions as compared to the scavenge missions.
Most importantly though, I like to use those lower missions to try out new survivor combos, explore the mps and set up my strategy for when i get to higher levels. I will be missing out on that opportunity if I can't start at RSL 15.
If you feel you're missing out on opening level 15 rewards and xp, you can use the saved gas to repeat level 20 missions as much as you wish. Just don't click on move to next round. Higher rewards for the same amount of gas and time. Thanks @biter370 for pointing that out to me.
With the added gas, you can repeat the first few rounds of the chalenge level you stard for more end of mission rewards, if you want. They won´t be hardcore dificult missions anyways.
I know I'm in the minority here, but this makes me nervous. I LIKE starting at level 15, I LIKE having some easy levels to try out different strategies, explore the maps and work out how I want to do things when I get to the higher levels. I LIKE being able to use Maggie or The Governor to increase rewards in the early levels. I can't use them later on because they're not good enough to go once I get to RSL 24.
It would really be wonderful if there was an option to skip round passes, so that those of us who WANT to play the early levels could do so. Please?
I'm with you.
While I wouldn't say I love the low level grind, I do make use of Maggie, Glenn and The Governor during these levels to get bonus XP and supplies. I agree that the gear rewards are instant scrap and yield only modest XP, but on occasion a gold or even silver crate will give very respectable supplies or XP.
Just like @TransmuteJun I also use the lower levels to figure out the best strategies and I fear skipping ahead too quickly will result in me getting stuck and not being able to progress which means I'll drop out of the challenge much earlier than I do now.
As for scavenging, I don't enjoy the scavenge grind at all and I only do them when it helps fulfil a quest or there's an event, like the recent double supplies event.
Having said that, I can appreciate that many advanced players will enjoy the ability to skip low levels, but I'd prefer an option to use passes manually rather than have it being applied automatically and I'm unclear why it isn't like that.
NG gives us the chance to skip rounds and people are upset about not getting Lvl 15 rewards anymore?
The star difference although cool isn't make or break. The gas not having to be used on lower RSL is the real winner here.
I'll take saving 24 gas over opening 18 RSL 15 level crates any day. I'll instead use that gas to play scavenger missions and get RSL 23 level crates or play 12 outpost maps and get 6K TG's
Taking a second to bump this post. I don't understand why some people are having such a hard time grasping this concept and how awesome this new system is.
Skipping RSL15-18 will save you 96 gas. Instead of 24 level 15-18 missions, you can instead run 19 level 22-27 scavenge missions (depending on pink stars and scavenge difficulty) OR you can advance later in the challenges with your extra gas, both of which provides rewards that far exceed some low level challenge missions (EVEN IF you use Maggie/Glenn/Gov in the low level missions). If you're concerned about missing out on gold/radio/gas/component rewards, which are level-invariant, then you can run a bunch of Tara beach missions, which are the most gas-efficient way of getting those resources.
As a FTP player, I actually find myself running out of gas at the end of challenges before I even hit my peak. I would much rather use my gas on those tougher missions and get more and better rewards than wasting it at the beginning of a challenge.
The most valid complaint I've heard is from people who are concerned about not being able to test out maps and figure out strategies. While this is certainly valid, most end gamers will still only be skipping ahead to somewhere between RSL19-21, which means you should still have at least 5-15 runs through each mission before the missions get hard enough that you actually have to try and think about what you're doing.
This is literally a win-win in every sense, and I am absolutely flabbergasted by those of you who are complaining about this option. It's honestly BETTER that people don't have the option of not using the level passes because it will allow them to use their gas more efficiently than they otherwise would have.
In a world where I had more time and where people had reasonably valid complaints or concerns, I would do the math to prove that this new system is better in every circumstance. But that world doesn't exist, so I'll defer to @DLich if he wants to crunch the numbers.
Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild. Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.
By the way, here is some helpful reading for people that are complaining about "Missing out on min between 18-54 box openings per round". This is a total fallacy because you are ignoring that you can use the gas that you save in a more productive way.
Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild. Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.
Comments
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Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'
> > @rfg1982 said:
> > I'm amazed by this and can't say enough thanks. The grinding was killing my life.
>
> Truly. Guess I will be able to throw the ball to the dog again
Actually, sadly, Ithink the grinding will stay the same if you read @Shteevie 's comment.
You will auto-skip some lower levels but with the new badges you should be able to get to a lot higher RSL than now -- which means you might be playing just as many missions (but at higher difficulty and with higher rewards).
Right?
Check out the DMZ guild. We're recruiting. Here.
The star difference although cool isn't make or break. The gas not having to be used on lower RSL is the real winner here.
I'll take saving 24 gas over opening 18 RSL 15 level crates any day. I'll instead use that gas to play scavenger missions and get RSL 23 level crates or play 12 outpost maps and get 6K TG's
MAVERICK'S 1 Million Star Club | OG | USA | NOC
Analyze This with ALF4reals | v1 | v2 | v3 |
| My YouTube Videos | My 1st Interview | Best Analogy Award!! |
Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'
Very much looking forward to trying this out and skipping the first several levels which might give me enough time to play The Distance.
But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!
If someone is the kind of player who will buy every component bundle (just as some players already buy every gear and gold bundle they can and have a fully upgraded set of survivors 2 hours after an update with a Training Grounds upgrade) then I would imagine this would mean more grinding for them... but that's their choice.
But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!
Thanks @Shteevie @Teeceezy @Fearofabotplanet
BOOM
It would really be wonderful if there was an option to skip round passes, so that those of us who WANT to play the early levels could do so. Please?
I am the one and only Zee Black, climbed all the way to Level 75, part of SG Woot, the 3 million star guild
Pros
Grind reduced and time sink reduced
More stars
Cons
Missing out on min between 18-54 box openings per round each of which is an opportunitty to earn radios, gold, fuel, and the new crafting stuff which I also belive is not level specific (which is likely the reason they have actually done this)
Times that by 5 thats a hell of a lot of opportunities.
Missing out on the scrap xp and supplies
Missing out on the XP from kills
Sure these may not seem alot on mission but with the amount been skipped they add up.
Ultimately you will be receiving less stuff overall wether you agree with me or not it doesn't matter because it is what it is, the double stuff you get from the passes just simply wont add up to the missing resources accumulated from the missing missions. The biggest increase will be stars but we dont spend stars, stars are not a resource and the double up may earn you a couple of rewards more which again do not equal the lost rewards from the crates even if they are lower level.
Finally only last week they said stars will always have to be earned, that was obviously not the truth or they have very quickly changed their mind and developed this in a week.
And that’s how I start my videos @Teeceezy knows it
Probably making a video!
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/MultiPainproduction
The example I used listed in the "2.7" columns assumes you use 5 passes. The second section showing "rounds" is actually the rounds you play (since you are earning double stars each round)
Essentially this is all the same thing regarding not playing 5 rounds and I understand your frustration regarding it I'm just trying to see it as an opportunity to try and alleviate any frustrations.
4 gas a level x 6 levels = 24 gas x 5 maps = 120 gas
120 gas will get you 30 challenge maps ranging RSL (assuming you're an end game player) 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
So you are missing out on all the things those 30 challenge maps offer, xp from kills, scrapped supplies from lower level things, rsl appropriate xp and supplies etc.
if a scavenger map is 5 gas then you can play 24 scavenger maps finding more appropriate level things with that 120 gas instead.
So your overall loss is only 6 actual missions. Potential for 18 crates (if you only open 3) up to 54 crates (if you open all 9)
Instead of 6 maps at lvl 15; 6 maps at lvl 16, 6 maps at lvl 17; 6 maps at lvl 18; 6 maps at lvl 19 (30 total maps) you can (if you choose to) use that saved gas on playing 24 maps of scavenger RSL 23 (or whatever your survivor levels are). I am going to assume regarding supplies and xp they will average out. I am also going to assume that since the walkers are higher level your xp from kills are going to average out as well.
I agree you are losing out on 6 missions you can play comparing apples to apples, so yes there is technically some type of loss involved but not nearly the way in which it's being described.
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Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'
@Poppy: You're not 'missing out' on rewards that you're not paying for.
If you want to say that you're missing out on the potential of those rewards or the opportunity to earn those rewards if you spent the gas to run the missions, time to play the missions and gold to open the 'extra' chests, then I understand what you're saying (this it more or less how I understand @TransmuteJun articulating her concern). If you're saying that you're being 'shorted' these rewards when you're not spending your time, gas or gold on them, then I don't follow you.
Damn, this post was still longer than anticipated.
But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!
> As @jrodfr2 pointed out- skipping some grind and getting double stars/tg is great, but missing end of mission crates sucks.
>
> Radios (and good gear drops) are hard enough to come by as it is. Maybe a solution could be to have each round pass unlock 3 additional end of mission crates for the round you do play.
>
> I dont see how we could miss out on 'good gear' in lvls 15-20
Lol, you are absolutely right there. I guess I hadn't completely thought that statement through. But the radios!
I'm just using my mathematical prowess to try and help explain that although there is some loss regarding potential rewards that the loss is smaller than originally perceived.
Considering it takes 10 minutes to recoup 1 gas and there's 1,440 minutes in a day you're roughly not using 83% of a single days gas accumulation on the challenges anymore. BUT you can use that gas elsewhere in the game.
If a player feels that skipping 5 rounds will lose them 30 sets of rewards I wanted to portray an option for them and all other players to use that gas they aren't spending on the challenge on other modes. 4 gas for a challenge map and 5 gas for a scavenger mission is basically a rate of 5 challenge levels compared to 4 scavenger missions.
I'll conclude with I absolutely understand a players fear that they are missing out on something, but mathematically you are only missing out on 6 levels overall so...
In my opinion, skipping 5 challenge maps (30 missions) at the overall loss of all the resources playing 6 missions reward crates would be is minimal in comparison. This isn't to say a users feelings are minimal, it's my interpretation of the overall loss in general.
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Freemium... the "mium" is latin for 'not really'
Most importantly though, I like to use those lower missions to try out new survivor combos, explore the mps and set up my strategy for when i get to higher levels. I will be missing out on that opportunity if I can't start at RSL 15.
I agree.
While I wouldn't say I love the low level grind, I do make use of Maggie, Glenn and The Governor during these levels to get bonus XP and supplies. I agree that the gear rewards are instant scrap and yield only modest XP, but on occasion a gold or even silver crate will give very respectable supplies or XP.
Just like @TransmuteJun I also use the lower levels to figure out the best strategies and I fear skipping ahead too quickly will result in me getting stuck and not being able to progress which means I'll drop out of the challenge much earlier than I do now.
As for scavenging, I don't enjoy the scavenge grind at all and I only do them when it helps fulfil a quest or there's an event, like the recent double supplies event.
Having said that, I can appreciate that many advanced players will enjoy the ability to skip low levels, but I'd prefer an option to use passes manually rather than have it being applied automatically and I'm unclear why it isn't like that.
Skipping RSL15-18 will save you 96 gas. Instead of 24 level 15-18 missions, you can instead run 19 level 22-27 scavenge missions (depending on pink stars and scavenge difficulty) OR you can advance later in the challenges with your extra gas, both of which provides rewards that far exceed some low level challenge missions (EVEN IF you use Maggie/Glenn/Gov in the low level missions). If you're concerned about missing out on gold/radio/gas/component rewards, which are level-invariant, then you can run a bunch of Tara beach missions, which are the most gas-efficient way of getting those resources.
As a FTP player, I actually find myself running out of gas at the end of challenges before I even hit my peak. I would much rather use my gas on those tougher missions and get more and better rewards than wasting it at the beginning of a challenge.
The most valid complaint I've heard is from people who are concerned about not being able to test out maps and figure out strategies. While this is certainly valid, most end gamers will still only be skipping ahead to somewhere between RSL19-21, which means you should still have at least 5-15 runs through each mission before the missions get hard enough that you actually have to try and think about what you're doing.
This is literally a win-win in every sense, and I am absolutely flabbergasted by those of you who are complaining about this option. It's honestly BETTER that people don't have the option of not using the level passes because it will allow them to use their gas more efficiently than they otherwise would have.
In a world where I had more time and where people had reasonably valid complaints or concerns, I would do the math to prove that this new system is better in every circumstance. But that world doesn't exist, so I'll defer to @DLich if he wants to crunch the numbers.
Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.
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Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/OpportunityCost.html
Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSePrANMyf_S_YKJyfJodg
Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium