Wrestling needs to be limited - and the time is NOW



  • JackBauerJackBauer Member Posts: 1,550
    @Fearofabotplanet Can you please tell us how many people finished the Distance ? Or, if you don't want to disclose that can you tell the percentage of players started the distance who successfully finished it ?
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  • NeoTheOneNeoTheOne Member Posts: 83
    Know what "human nature" is? Well it's still a debate. But there are two major schools of thought. According to the Empiricists, humans are naturally selfish. People will cling to something if it serves their interests no matter how irrational that is. They will defend it. Die for it. Humanists, on the other hand, believe humans are is altruistic. People are capable of going beyond self-interest and follow the path to reason and progress even if that means giving up something personally valuable. Using that as framework, I could understand and categorize the views expressed in this thread.

  • zerosouLzerosouL Member Posts: 190

    "First, using LLS and/or wrestler armor and calling it an "exploit" is just plain ignorant. No matter what kind of challenge you put in front of a human being, there will be players that will eventually use the given game mechanics to outsmart the game. Some may not agree with the choices of using these given game mechanics, but if people figure it out...they will 100% use it to their advantage. "

    Well. I would say that if you feel something is broken and you keep using it just cause you can, thats just your own fault. Tons of people got banned over the years for same ignorant attitude in lots of different online games and its their own fault. Some people have that kind of attitude regarding blatant hacks claiming that its devs fault and thay did it cause the game allowed them to "outsmart the game". lol

    I hope you wont be offended and look into things with wider perspective :)
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  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 633
    @Cantrip said:
    Because currently the game mode seems to only be designed to be beaten using exploits, and for as long as this is the case, it can't be beaten by any conventional strategy.

    If the game mode is "designed" to be beaten(your words) by those means, than how can you call those means an "exploit?" If working as designed, then by definition NOT an exploit.

    The LLS strategy goes back a long time. It's not the way I play, never has been, never will be. But, I don't have any animosity towards, nor would I seek to hinder the strategies of, those who do.

    Wrestler has its place for all players.

    Live, and let live.
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  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited September 2017
    Nope, player can still buy slot or bundle with free slot before the event start, this only limit most F2P but not spender.
  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    > @DLH said:
    > @Techfall I think that would actually fall under the "cheating" category because said someone would have to hack or manipulate the Random number generator that determines what falls in each crate.
    > Whereas using a trait created by NG to its fullest potential would simply be smart strategy. Those using wrestle have not changed or manipulated how the trait works or anything for that matter. So it's really apples and oranges.
    > However, IF someone figured that out and used it so be it. I will still get to level 27-28 in challenges and I will still get to level 14 on the distance. And I will still enjoy playing this game with the great people in my guild. What you do in your sandbox is your business. No one should be forcing anyone to play the way they think is the correct way.
    > Having played this game from the beginning asking for anything to be nerfed is like asking the cat to watch the canary.

    Using a trait combined with 1 star level 9 survivors to 1 shot high level walkers, then retire them and call another is not "using the trait to it's fullest." It's surely circumventing what NG had anticipated for the distance and I'm sure we will see a fix in either locked roster or something to address it
  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289
    edited September 2017
    @Mabiki thanks for your thought-out response.

    The wrestling trait being OP has been discussed a few times already here, at least once by myself. You mightve missed it.
    Maybe we got so used to live with it, that we can't imagine NML without it anymore ;)

    I see your point on separating Wrestling OP from The Distance.
    Yes, normal challenges are different from The Distance in terms of wrestling.
    The way I see it, The Distance exacerbates the problem with wrestling being overpowered. Yes, one needs skill and a good team+equipment in the challenges to push past 1000*, let alone past 1500*.
    The simple fact that one uses their three wrestle opportunities on the biggest/meanest walker in the challenge is still there, and overpowered.

    This turns into total wrestling festivals in The Distance, clearly highlighting what is wrong.

    And the real problem I see is that the mission designers are trying to make missions challenges harder DESPITE the broken wrestling trait. This race is unwinnable and reduces the game more and more to wrestling.

    So, The Distance appears to be another step down the rabbit hole of trying to make missions tougher just because of the wrestling trait.
    What step is next?

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  • NeoTheOneNeoTheOne Member Posts: 83
    Kids...please move to Forum Jr.
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @Putchuco Tell me how player wrestler Freeman if there are more Freeman only map in between like say map 18? This you called overpowered trait is useless against human enemy was as stated in the first page of thid thread I posted, but you didn't respond to how adding more Freeman won't fix the problem when the Freeman bug was fixed? There's nothing wrong with wrestler trait & no need to nerf it. Just tweak the map & fix the Freeman bug, problem solved.
  • DBonesDBones Member Posts: 800
    @Monsuta , If I understand correctly, your proposed solution to the issue is to remove walkers from the maps because Wrestler doesn't work against human enemies (which, if you read between the lines, is a tacit acknowledgement that Wrestler is in fact overpowered, at least against walkers). I would respectfully disagree that this is a reasonable solution. You can't start removing walkers from a game that is based on killing walkers.
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  • TroublemakerTroublemaker Member Posts: 1,471
    Proposed options so far:

    - Locked roster within "The Distance";
    - Limit Wrestler to a certain lvl difference;
    - Remove the Flee button;
    - Tweak Wrestler functionality (needs more discussion).

    What else was proposed?
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @DBones it's not completely removing walkers by replacing them with Freeman, it's add Freeman to the mix so this will force player to stay & fight, also rendering wrestler useless.
    Like having first half of the map is walkers, then Freeman near the exit, the objective change to kill all enemy.
  • QB34QB34 Member Posts: 60
    Disclaimer: I didn't read every post in this thread.. I have gold wrestle trait on a few pieces of gear but have never really used it as a strategy more like a fail safe. I noticed several times in the last distance against walker level 28 and above my survivors would get in a struggle but wouldn't kill the walker. That happened more often than not actually.
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited September 2017
    Bill_ZRT said:

    First of all - a sincere congratulations to anyone who finished the Distance, whatever method you used.

    The first thing I want to make clear, because I don’t think this is very well understood, is that there was an additional bug with the freemen on the last Distance map that allowed people to complete it without actually beating all of the enemies. If that bug was fixed players could not beat the final map and complete The Distance using wrestling. I think this is an important fact that’s being overlooked.

    Beating The Distance by using a bug is not something I would celebrate or brag about. Some players got a temporary ban not so long ago for using a bug in the game and this method is no different in my eyes.

    Back on topic: I hate wrestler trait, have voiced it since day one, and my stance still stands. I had no choice but to use it for The Distance since NG doesn’t give us any other strategies for high level playing. It is not fun for me to have to solely rely on Wrestler/Insta-Kill to feel confident going in a high level map. I wish we had other options/strategies.

    Before we got this thing called Wrestler/Insta-Kill, we had to dance with the fatties and it took us 20 mins to kill one.

    Do we have other traits that work 100% of the time that are guaranteed kill with no regard to what level the walkers?

    100% interrupt at least wasn’t a guaranteed kill.

    That’s what is bothering me about Wrestler trait right now.
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited September 2017
    No it’s not different @Bill_ZRT , it was called FLEE so that is a bug that is not intended. And the last map was make calls to make sure you have 7 survivors in your roster and you get an automatic win and get the rewards. Nothing to celebrate or brag about in my eyes.

    The one and only way you could beat some of the maps was to use the wrestler trait so yes, I had no choice. I think I’ve been playing long enough and acquired enough skill over the last couple of years to know what I am talking about.
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