Wrestling needs to be limited - and the time is NOW

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Comments

  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    edited September 2017
    Serp said:

    I've read through the majority of this post and I just can't seem to get my head around it. Why do people care SO much about how other people play the game?! If some one found a power up star, ala super Mario bros, that no one else could get and were able to just walk through every level of The Distance, how EXACTLY does that affect ANYONE else's game experience? A player with no connection to the forum is blissfully unaware of all of this upheaval or of anyone using this trait to beat The Distance and guess what, it has NO effect WHATSOEVER on their game!

    For the same reason they nerf/fix/balance things in every other single player game ever made or in mmorpg PvE raiding.
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited September 2017
    Bill_ZRT said:

    WeekOne said:

    Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.

    Wrestling isn't 100% insta-kill. Multiple times last week I had survivors get into a struggle that lasted more than one round. If all three characters get into a struggle, the map ends - you've failed. Wrestling is neither instant or 100% effective.
    I disagree with you here @Bill_ZRT ... perhaps you were using the silver wrestler trait on your surivors but mine have worked excellent with gold wrestler and it was a guaranteed kill.
    Bill_ZRT said:

    WeekOne said:

    Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.

    I agree that it would be nice to have some more interesting and varied tactics to use.
    YES! We agree on something today! <3

    @Shteevie thanks for dropping in on this thread and providing us with valuable information... much appreciated.

    Cheers everyone.... Love live NML!
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    edited September 2017
    When you have 40% luck on a survivor. The chance that you will kill the walker is 99.6%.

    (1-(1-0.6*1.4)^3)*100%= 99.6%

    Edit-
    Without luck
    (1-(1-0.6)^3)*100%= 93.6%
    TechfallWeekOne
  • I_Am_PsychoI_Am_Psycho Member Posts: 1,431
    WeekOne said:

    I disagree with you here @Bill_ZRT ... perhaps you were using the silver wrestler trait on your surivors but mine have worked excellent with gold wrestler and it was a guaranteed kill.

    It's not actually a 100% kill, but with gold wrestler and lucky trait, the probability is sufficiently high enough, that on any specific turn, you'll kill substantially more often than not :wink:
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  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    Mabiki said:

    I have to disagree @WeekOne

    I have used survivors with gold wrestler and experienced times when the trait did not activate on the first turn, and sometimes when it did not activate after 3 turns, and the survivor in struggle died.

    I have wondered in the past how accurate the percentages are, since wrestler does seem to be highly effective, but I have never attempted to calculate the odds when stacked with luck trait. In any case, it is absolutely not 100 percent effective nor always insta-kill.

    It is also true that 3 survivors in a struggle at the same time is always mission fail.

    Fair enough @Mabiki .... that’s your experience. Mine is different.

    As much as possible, I try to make sure to not have all three in a struggle at the same time. I will usually send one or two and leave one behind to take care of the rest.

    That would be a strategy to increase the effectiveness of your wrestler trait during that mission. Example for this challenge would be BBQ.

    With regards to The Distance, if you bring in a sacrifice survivor with the gold wrestler trait, click on FLEE after the wrestle since it’s a weak survivor, then grab another one and repeat. Save your strongest survivors for later.

    OK... off I go now. I have exhausted this subject and I am looking forward to seeing what NG comes up with.

    I really really want to have more that just the gold wrestler trait to feel confident going in to high level playing maps. That’s all I am asking really and I think NG can be creative for us in this regard.

    Peace out! :)
    Putchuco
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    @I_Am_Psycho I have luck on almost all my survivors and I think pretty much all of them are min 7 star pinkies.... so good point! ;)
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503
    edited September 2017
    I've often complained about wrestling trait and wrestlers in general, the percentage of it working needs to be brought down to the 30% level, if anything another survivor should have to save you out of the grapple you're in if your wrestle trait doesn't work, would make for much more interesting game play. Not only that having to receive almost all high end armor now almost always includes a wrestling trait to some affect. I miss the days of getting armor that has bulletproof percentages/concussion proof percentages and either dodge/shield/or extra life percentage. I think people who agree with me are part of a silent majority more than anything. Wrestlers are just performing a cheap trick that hasn't been around very long. Maybe they should build their characters up so they don't die so quickly without the wrestle trait to begin with
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
    CaptainslayerGuapoFester17Putchuco
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503
    Pig said:

    What's utterly hilarious to me is that we wouldn't even be in this position except that NG buffed wrestler because it was so useless back in the day. Wrestler trait used to be automatic scrap on any piece of armour. Back then we would have loved to see wrestler removed.

    Now it's a useful trait, and calling for it to be removed is silly. @Putchuco's suggestion here is pretty reasonable, it seems to me. It won't utterly kill any part of the game, and it will make The Distance the kind of challenge it was meant to be.

    I'm curious how many players are regularly wrestling level 32 walkers in challenges. It can't be too many. Speaking for myself, @Putchuco's suggestion wouldn't change anything for me... except The Distance.

    Exactly, if I remember developers suggested that the distance was created for everyone to play but especially for them to show interest towards long time players that have built their survivor roster up and their survivors, not to let newer players that depend on wrestle that is now overpowered (compared to in the past) with low level survivors. Actually put in the work to build up your survivors and badges, then you deserve to go the distance. If you wrestle your way through I feeel you are helping destroy an gaming mode designed for people that have played this game from almost the start. Late comers to this game have already received more than enough extra benefits that original players never had the chance to receive.
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
    jimmorrison369CaptainslayerPutchuco
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503
    DLich said:

    zerosouL said:

    @DLich

    How about this then. If you dont think changing either wrestle trait or distance concept is fair then dont play it. Now you see how silly your statement was? Every player has a right to speak up if they dislike new content or the way the game is changing.

    Every player has the right to speak up yes. Opinions are one thing.
    Putchuco said:


    I know I am beating a dead horse by now, but it really makes no sense to me playing a game where 50% of the progress depends on the sole benefit of one single, overpowered trait, paired with a still existing loophole for low-lvl survivors.
    Come on, guys, we can do better and make this fun, challenging and dependent on skill again!

    If 50% of the progress depends on the sole benefit of one single trait and you suggest changing that trait to not work anywhere nearly as effective as it does now then how are players supposed to play this mode beyond the first 50%? You would rather the trait be changed so it's not effective in the second half of the game mode so that nobody can get those rewards?

    Is there a suggestion by you to change the second half of the game mode? Should it be made easier?

    It's called putting in the work to create a survivor roster that is upgraded enough with the right badges to do so, god forbid the distance is defeated by the people who have done this instead of a wrestling trait that was buffed up for challenge 2.0. How about people who defeat the distance defeat it because they deserve to, not because they found the flaw of a game option that was just released, same reason they debuffed bodyshot armor
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
    jimmorrison369CaptainslayerFester17Putchuco
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503

    I don't see the problem if you don't want to beat a game mode with the wrestler trait then DON'T!!! Why call for it to be nerfed.

    If you simply want to try and beat it with your lvl 22 survivors and a few badges good luck and go ahead.

    How does someone else beating a game mode affect you in any way, for the record I haven't beaten it and probably won't for a little while.

    You have it in reverse, they actually nerfed the wrestler trait for challenge 2.0. Let's denerf it and see how wrestlers do
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
    CaptainslayerGuapoPutchuco
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503
    NeoTheOne said:

    Know what "human nature" is? Well it's still a debate. But there are two major schools of thought. According to the Empiricists, humans are naturally selfish. People will cling to something if it serves their interests no matter how irrational that is. They will defend it. Die for it. Humanists, on the other hand, believe humans are is altruistic. People are capable of going beyond self-interest and follow the path to reason and progress even if that means giving up something personally valuable. Using that as framework, I could understand and categorize the views expressed in this thread.

    Hence why I'm a secular humanist
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    afroponix said:

    I've often complained about wrestling trait and wrestlers in general, the percentage of it working needs to be brought down to the 30% level, if anything another survivor should have to save you out of the grapple you're in if your wrestle trait doesn't work, would make for much more interesting game play.

    This already exists. The wrestler trait doesn't always work. And if it doesn't, and another survivor doesn't kill the grappling walker to save you before the clock counts down, you will die.


    jimmorrison369Fester17
  • afroponixafroponix Member Posts: 503
    Mabiki said:

    afroponix said:

    I've often complained about wrestling trait and wrestlers in general, the percentage of it working needs to be brought down to the 30% level, if anything another survivor should have to save you out of the grapple you're in if your wrestle trait doesn't work, would make for much more interesting game play.

    This already exists. The wrestler trait doesn't always work. And if it doesn't, and another survivor doesn't kill the grappling walker to save you before the clock counts down, you will die.


    Lol yes I know it already exists, that's why I'm suggesting they cap wrestling percentages at %30, so the other options can take place...wresting was nerfed up for challenge 2.0, before that it was mostly an undesirable trait, still is imo, like I've said in another post I miss the days of more anti stun/gun body armor/and dodge,shield, or extra life percentage armor.

    Now those were the days....when you actually had to build up good survivors with good traits.

    Really it was just bad foresight on the programmers/Dev, but it share did line NG's pockets....
    Guts & Glory, not always in that order.
    KaLijimmorrison369Bill_ZRTJadensbfCaptainslayerPutchuco
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    @afroponix
    I still get all those other armors. Sorry you're not pulling what you want.
    You could have all my bulletproof armor if the game allowed such exchanges. I find it undesirable.

    I won't speak for anyone else, but myself and my guild are still focused on building up quality survivors with good traits and good gear. And I don't see how wrestler has killed anything about that concept. It wouldn't be getting all this attention if it weren't for The Distance, which also suffered a major freeman bug in the last mission, now fixed we're told, and may still be altered in response to the Call, Wrestle, Retire, Repeat strategy, aka C-W-R-R (a descriptor I may have been responsible for coining, by the way :) Not the actual strategy. Just the name).

    I really don't think we would be having this discussion at all if not for people using this method in The Distance. I have no reason to believe the wrestler trait is somehow being abused in any other game mode, and it's highly debatable that it qualifies as an "abuse" in The Distance, as evidenced by the debate in this thread and the response so far by NG. I use the wrestler trait to survive a handful of really tough challenge levels so that it's not an automatic fail if I can't kill that heavy walker coming at me before he starts a grapple.

    And, worst-case scenario, if high-scoring players are throwing LLS with wrestler at level 30-something walkers in the Challenge; I personally could care less. I'm not going to waste my time with it, but I don't care if they do. I do have some issues with how C-W-R-R defeats the purpose of The Distance as being the hardest game mode ever, but I've explained my argument and preferred solution in length elsewhere in this thread, and it comes down to the fact that I think it is cheesy but I'm not going to call for nerfing a trait just to make it harder. There are other, better ways to fix The Distance, and I wish the people who are now calling for Wrestler trait to be nerfed would make an argument that doesn't invoke this new game mode, if they have one.
    jimmorrison369JenngCaptainslayerFester17Putchucoafroponix
  • zerosouLzerosouL Member Posts: 190
    My god. Dont you understand that all the whining about the wrestle trait is not about telling how how to play your game? Its about balancing it out for everyone else since without wrestle NGs gonna have to make some balance adjustments. We dont give a crap about if you plan to use it or not. The End.
    Captainslayerafroponix
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    Who is that directed to, @zerosouL ?
    jimmorrison369
  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,353
    Please keep it civil,
    zbot said:

    Teeceezy said:

    @Fearofabotplanet 's comment (here: http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/259840/#Comment_259840) reflects our current stance on the issue.



    And regarding tactics and the feelings of players regarding those tactics, of course we'll take our data and community feedback into account when looking at how to move forward with The Distance.

    We're keen on collecting as much as we can of said community feedback, so please do share your thoughts and opinions. That being said, forum rules apply and we won't tolerate any abuse, trolling, baiting and so on. Cheers.

    Re-posting this. Keep things civil and constructive.
    Keep the discussion civil and constructive.

    David_H79MadPuppyI_Am_Psycho
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    I love this thread.

    Personally I like @Mabiki's proposal now. He's pretty persuasive on this point. But NG has made their move and The Distance is close on the horizon. Your move now, N00Bz.
    Bad Pig
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    jimmorrison369Jenng
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