Understanding what an Exploit is

The term exploit gets thrown around on the forums all the time and is often misused... I find that extremely frustrating because it's frequently used to call someone a 'cheater' inappropriately. So... how do we know what an exploit is/isn't?

An exploit is, generally speaking, taking advantage of a bug in the game/code to get an unfair reward. How do you know if something is an exploit in this game? First, it's against forum rules to talk about an exploit, so if there's a thread talking about a particular tactic and NG is chiming in and allowing and encouraging discussion, then it's not an exploit. If there was a thread about a legitimate exploit, NG would delete and remove that thread immediately. There have been cases of that happening in the last week. Also, using an exploit is a punishable offence - especially using it again and again for some advantage.

People often use the word exploit to describe "some tactic that I think is cheesy and don't like". That's not what an exploit is here, as defined by NG. If you don't like a tactic... that's fine. Feel free to call it a cheesy, lame, boring, lazy tactic but let's stop referring to these as exploits which essentially amounts to calling someone a cheater. We can have an intelligent conversation without resorting to that.
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Comments

  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    But they are not defining what the term or concept stands for.

    You are just assuming it is not because they have not censored the discussion of it. It can be still an exploit and their decision or right to not censored it. I'd think the Distance it's been a tremendous fiasco for NG, I don't think they have accomplished any of the objectives that they had for it. Be a "fun game mode to play", to stand for several months before anyone beats it, to be extremely hard, etc... It is just a big mistake, and it is hard to accept that type of things, I'll understand, they don't want to take a quick decision and screw it even more. At the end, they didn't see this coming, it is their fault and censoring the community for it, would not help.... and I still think is a clear exploit just because if we accept it is not, then we are talking about a very poor design.

    This is not a new debate, when the exploit concept appears there is always controversy.
    thebull
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    Yeah I know the quote: "Kill a man and you'll be a killer, kill a thousand and you'll be a conqueror, kill them all and you'll be God" Same action, different quantities, different result... Still is the same action, repeating it doesn't make it better... Just my opinion

    I don't agree with it. I just don't think that taken any advantage to reach a goal makes you successful.
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,388
    mik81 said:

    But they are not defining what the term or concept stands for.

    Yes they are - they are absolutely defining what an exploit is in the context of their game. I've already linked to the appropriate forum rules. I'm not trying to redefine the dictionary definition of exploit - I'm clarifying how NG defines an exploit in the context of their own game.

    I 100% agree that this was not a situation that NG anticipated, but it's not an exploit. This is how the wrestling mechanic has worked for months. As @jester stated, the low level survivor thing is a bit of a red herring as you could beat most levels of the distance with wrestling by using your normal, full roster of max level survivors... no radio calls or low level survivors needed.

    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    MattOfEarthjesterJadenFester17
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,915
    You got it backwards though, NG has their own definition of exploit. Wich is fine, and I'm all for agreeing on semantics.
    Makes communicating more easy.

    But the defenition of the word, in common english (in this context), is better explained by @mik81. Wich makes your definition a personal definition, and his the more common definition. (The backwards part)
    TJSthebull
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    Ok. Then I just don't see the definition of the concept game exploit anywhere. It has to be me

    I'm not saying that wrestler is an exploit itself, is the combination of using it on a LLS on the Distance game mode. Seriously I cannot believe that devs wanted us to use it to progress on the game mode. If it is what they wanted then I'm afraid to say that they designed a very poor game mode...

    Instant killing a 32 armored walker with a lvl 9 survivor is....??? yeah doesn't make any sense. If that is the "new game mechanic" it is very sad
    WeekOnethebull
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,388
    mik81 said:

    Instant killing a 32 armored walker with a lvl 9 survivor is....??? yeah doesn't make any sense. If that is the "new game mechanic" it is very sad

    This is not a new game mechanic.
    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    MattOfEarthFester17
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,915
    Mea culpa on that part, still stand by the fact you don't need it to be a bug/glitch for it to be an exploit.
    Bill_ZRTthebull
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    I see the controversy if you don't want to call it exploit let's call it just poor design... But I think we can all agree that instant killing lvl 32 zombies with lvl 9 "bomb suicides" is not the way that the game mode was designed to be finished.

    At least that is what I would like to believe.... otherwise I may be looking somewhere else to find strategy games.
    DBonesthebull
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,388
    mik81 said:

    I see the controversy if you don't want to call it exploit let's call it just poor design...

    That was the exact intent of this thread... let's not use the term exploit to imply that someone is a cheater. I 100% agree that this was an unanticipated strategy and that almost certainly something will be done about.
    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    DBonesjimmorrison369Jaden
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    I never use it to say that someone is a cheater... If you want to call someone a cheater you just say cheater, xDDD . I always understand an exploit for taking advantaging of something on the game that wasn't intended to be played like that. It is not that the user/gamer is doing something illegally, the game as it is allowing you to do it.... but you also know that these should not be the way to do it....

    Let's say that there is a hard boss, but if you position exactly on the X part of the map, he can't get you.... therefore is just a stupid fight where you just attack, and attack until you kill it. I call that exploit. Am I doing something illegally? No, but I also know that this is not the way I should be facing the fight. At some point the game developer should come and fix it...

    If it is a better term for this I'm happy to use it, I always called exploit, and I always see a huge difference between that and cheating and hacking.

    Bill_ZRTthebull
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,949
    Whatever that is in anyones book it doesnt matter. There is a guideline, a definition.

    Anythink like "in my book" its just basically a misinterpretation.

    Its very much the same like you would say "murder" in my book is not a murder, its just taking someones life away because he deserved it. This sort of thing.

    In the end it doesnt matter what it is in "your book". Its not rocket science. World is not black and white I know. This prticular case is. Something is an exploit or it isnt, nothing in between or more or less.

    Bear in mind that I have used murder as an example, not calling anyone anything.
    mik81
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360



    NG said only the best players would go far/beat the distance, not the best survivors,weapons, etc

    in life, successful people are successful because they take advantage of all available options to reach a goal.

    Only the players who have the most powerful Survivors and unmatched skill will be able to make it to the end of The Distance

    NG dixit: forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/29029/update-notes-the-distance#latest

    Are really lvl 9 survivors the most powerful Survivors????



  • BttlOpenerBttlOpener Member Posts: 849


    I gotta say, it has been some fun reading...
    SCBMAkjmia421
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    The problem it isn't "only" on the trait by itself but also on the design of the Distance that allows you to carry over any kill that you had previously on that map. In any other game mode, wrestle is kind of an extra life, and it makes sense. You can't really abuse of it in any other mode.... the lvl 9 survivors thing is extending without limits (as long as you have phones) your roster.... so the problem it isn't only in one thing but in a combination of several ones

    Regardless of the survivor level these "thing" doesn't not involve Powerful survivors or unmatched skills. And by the way I'm not saying that changing the trait is the way to go. That isn't really my job, I'll leave it for the people that gets paid for it. I'm just saying that it would be great to fix it so the game mode makes sense and can be what NG originally expected of it
  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    Exploit doesn't necessarily mean bug in the code it can mean unintended strategies. I used MMORPgs in another example. If a dev team releases a new raid boss and players realize a d existing mechanic allows for them to defeat the boss without following the intended manner I would consider that an exploit. In some instances is if it was dev oversight they will allow progress to stand but in other instances they will roll back progress and rewards earned by people who continually used said strategies.

    I think it's pretty obvious NG did not expect people to roll through tons of radios calling and trashing low survivors. You can't compare to prior lls strategy because there was no progression saving in challenges
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    If my lvl 22 survivor with wrestle trait gets hit vs a lvl 30 walker it's typically instant struggle. If my wrestler trait goes off and kills that walker; lets even go as far as to say all 3 of my lvl 22 survivors with wrestler go off vs 3 walkers the 3 walkers die and the 3 survivors live.

    I can then "flee" and leave 1 of them behind.

    I can then swap out the one that's "dead" for a different one with wrestler gear.

    I can then spend 40 gold to get them out of red into green.

    And since I'm no longer in the red and get hit wrestler could potentially go off again with all 3.

    Is that correct?

    Sorry to post this in this topic but I don't use wrestler but it seems many in this thread do and understand it's full potential. If my survivor is in the red does wrestler still go off or is it a 1 hit kill (assuming the survivor hasn't used wrestler in the current map even if they did in the previous one... map meaning "turn")

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  • I_Am_PsychoI_Am_Psycho Member Posts: 1,431
    edited September 2017
    @DLICH - Wrestler has probability to kill walker when struggling. It's not a 100% guarantee. But with lucky trait it's gotta be close.

    I don't think it's worth as much anger. It's been reported in the forum as a concern for some, and has been acknowledged by NG, who will no doubt study game data and trends, as well as any video footage out in the open.

    I thought about doing an in depth post on different types of exploits, but looking at how people have taken this so personally, I decided to spend my day getting on with life:)

    Edit: corrected typo on last line
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  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    edited September 2017
    > @paintbeast said:
    > There's a big difference between "exploit" and "design oversight". The thing previously mentioned about using airplane mode to game the system is an exploit. Using existing game mechanics in a way that was not anticipated (see The Distance) is a design oversight.

    If something is obviously a design oversignt and you continue to abuse it for reward it could be considered exploiting by some game developers, as said I've seen as much in other games where roll backs were conducted usually followed by a post by the devs along the lines of "while some people reported it to devs and continued to play as expected others abused it and will have their gains removed"
    mik81
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