Update 2.8: Balancing & Changes - Official Discussion Thread

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  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    Mabiki said:

    Players with three of more survivors of Level 20 or greater will play Challenges with the following details:

    Starting Difficulty: 14
    Single rounds for difficulties 14 through 18.
    Three rounds per difficulty from Difficulty 19 through 29.

    Four rounds per difficulty for the remainder of the Challenge.
    Players will still be able to collect Round Passes for every 5 Rounds that they complete.

    An important note here is that this is a temporary change that will be in place until at least the end of the year. We have planned additional changes to the system that will accommodate the long term growth of your survivors and teams, without reintroducing the issues we have seen since 2.4 was released. When those changes are ready, you will hear about them before they go live.

    ---

    I realize this is a temporary fix and one that many have asked for regarding the issue of challenge stars and levelling.

    But I am a little concerned that this just just going to add to the grind for players with survivors above level 20. I have level 21 survivors and made it to rsl 28 the last 2 challenges. Currently my triple rounds start at 20. Now they will start at 19, which gives me another triple round to walk thru before nearing the part of the challenge I enjoy,

    The round passes have helped the grind issue tremendously, and I feel like this takes a step backward. Now when I level to 22 very soon (only 1.5 million tomatoes left for training grounds upgrade), I won't start at any higher RSL and will actually be starting earlier than I am now at level 21. And I'll have to use that much more gas to get up to where I max out at the challenge based on difficulty. Quite possibly I'll max out on gas and time before I even ger there. And ir will get worse with level 23 survivors.

    Some people might be happy for the easy extra stars with more triple rounds, but I'd much rather get to the challenging part of the challenge without having to rely on a gas booster and more time spent grinding against level 19 walkers.

    I know you can't please everyone, but it seems like this fix to complaints over "lost" stars negates the progress made with the addition of round passes to minimize low level grinding.

    @Mabiki I think the lower starting level is because the nerf of wrestler is going to have the majority of people go less far than they do now and NG wants us to get a similar amount of stars. It's awful. We'll get lower level gear/xp/tomatoes by starting lower and therefore not get as good gear/xp at the same round number as we do now. The round passes so far have been great, but having everyone start lower means that we'll still have a bunch of grinding to do. More grind and not getting as far, but trying to give the illusion of consistency in our scores. I can't remember what side of the wrestler debate you're on, but I think there are much better solutions than what NG is implementing, and ultimately I think it's going to be negative except for the very few who for some reason don't like other players using it.
    paintbeastbradleyharvey
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited October 2017
    @sbf The extra 5 rounds in 2.8 mean those who only earn 5 round passes are screwed, the good of 2.7 that saved them those gas to use on Saturday's the distance is gone.
    And since they only earn 5 round passes, they probably didn't even use wrestler at all.
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    @Monsuta Yes and no... it all depends on how many stars you want to get in the challenge. My guess is that NG is factoring that players won't be getting to the same rsl missions as now bc of the wrestler nerf, and starting the triple rounds lower will allow folks to get the same amount of stars as they do now, or maybe even more. I haven't had the time to sit down and look at the numbers, but if NG is effectively capping the level that people will get to (if they are pushing their team to their limits and beyond using wrestler), they're add the stars at the bottom so players think they're getting as far as before. Personally, I prefer getting the rewards in crates for an rsl29 or 30 mission than an rsl19 or 20 mission. However, if they do go through with the wrestler nerf, many people won't be playing the distance as far as they've been getting so far, so that'll save gas too.
  • Pain WalkerPain Walker Content Creator Posts: 2,616
    You see every change Ng does is for the better @Fearofabotplanet

    Probably making a video!

    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/MultiPainproduction
    sbfInvaderCaptainslayerMystiquecrambert_necMrSorrowpradiJayZzeowerusKyrusAval0nEdd8GovernatorSebiLightfeetzeeblack8N8banzaitpzinhoGForce
  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    > @Invader said:
    > They aren't forcing you to level up....
    >
    >
    > No they don´t. But if you wan´t to compete in your guild, you have to in a long term.
    >
    > And if you waited last time to level up from 21 to 22 because of the imbalance in reached stars, the gap gets bigger and bigger. 2.21 million xp for ONE survivor and around 5.5 million xp AND 60 hours for just ONE piece of equipment is insane!

    So find a more casual guild or level up to keep pace, you have options
    CaptainslayerEdd8Aval0nzeowerusKillersZ
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    Yeah, indeed for the better revenue, better stock, better nerf, better gears trait dilution, better player rage, you named it.
    JadenGovernatorbanzaiPapacas
  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    > @Bill_ZRT said:
    > Changing wrestling and limiting stun resistance will open up more strategies and in general more ways to deal with high RSLs,
    >
    > You're a smart, thoughtful poster, but I can't stand this argument. Saying that changing or removing one or two strategies "will open up more strategies" is a bit silly, isn't it? What you really mean is that it will force people to look at other, less optimal strategies that already exist.
    >
    > For example, if I lost my driver's license, I wouldn't be excited about the "new strategies to get to work" that would suddenly "open up" to me.

    This is a bad comparison. To compare it to how wrestling was abused with LLS , a better comparison would be if you lost the ability of your 6 year old brother to take you to work
    CaptainslayerEdd8Bill_ZRTPutchucozeowerusJadenLightfeetbanzai
  • InvaderInvader Member Posts: 2,066
    edited October 2017
    Techfall said:

    So find a more casual guild or level up to keep pace, you have options


    Sure I have options. Looking for another guild is none.

    After this challenge I´m done with this game. Thats it.

    I´m tired of grinding for some advantage that becomes obsolete just the moment I´m starting to enjoy it.

    This game is totally out of control. They add this new trait and have to nerf that old trait. They add the distance and make it unplayable after two weeks. They add the badges, then they buff/add walkers...but they forgot to think about that all the badges shit is hard to find...except in the distance (which is unplayable).

    No thanks...I´m so sick of this BS.
    Edd8Aval0nPutchucoJadenPapacas
  • TeeceezyTeeceezy Staff Posts: 3,577
    edited October 2017
    > @Mack105 said:
    > @Teeceezy ,
    >
    > Will there be any changes to guild play with 2.8?

    There are a few minor features that help new players find guilds, but bigger ones are in the pipeline. :)
    tdiddyPain WalkerLightfeet
  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,156
    Mabiki said:


    I realize this is a temporary fix and one that many have asked for regarding the issue of challenge stars and levelling.

    But I am a little concerned that this just just going to add to the grind for players with survivors above level 20. I have level 21 survivors and made it to rsl 28 the last 2 challenges. Currently my triple rounds start at 20. Now they will start at 19, which gives me another triple round to walk thru before nearing the part of the challenge I enjoy,

    I completely agree. This new version of the challenge was SUPPOSED to increase starting level (and the level at which triple rounds started) every time you leveled up your survivors, to avoid 'grinding', because people complained about the grinding. But then this lead to people complaining about the grinding of triple rounds preventing them from getting to higher levels faster, which lead to round passes. And people complained that when they leveled their survivors they 'lost' stars, even though higher level survivors starting at a higher challenge level was the whole point.

    Now we're going backwards and adding more rounds to the front end of the challenge. Personally, I LIKE that. I have never complained about 'grinding' because IMHO it was all worthwhile when I earned the TG (and other) rewards. But people have to understand that you can't have one without the other. Either you are going to increase your challenge starting level when you level up survivors OR you will always start at the same level and have more grinding at the beginning of the challenge. It can't be both.
    Lightfeet
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 807
    Players with three of more survivors of Level 20 or greater will play Challenges with the following details:

    Starting Difficulty: 14
    Single rounds for difficulties 14 through 18.
    Three rounds per difficulty from Difficulty 19 through 29

    I like that this Challenge RSL change will also solve my "Unlock the Governor" pop-up problem...
    DLichDBones
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    > @DLich said:

    But the benefit of having round passes to saved up gas so you can use in the distance on Saturday is gone too
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    edited October 2017
    sbf said:


    @Mabiki I think the lower starting level is because the nerf of wrestler is going to have the majority of people go less far than they do now and NG wants us to get a similar amount of stars. It's awful. We'll get lower level gear/xp/tomatoes by starting lower and therefore not get as good gear/xp at the same round number as we do now. The round passes so far have been great, but having everyone start lower means that we'll still have a bunch of grinding to do. More grind and not getting as far, but trying to give the illusion of consistency in our scores. I can't remember what side of the wrestler debate you're on, but I think there are much better solutions than what NG is implementing, and ultimately I think it's going to be negative except for the very few who for some reason don't like other players using it.

    @sbf

    It makes some sense if part of the idea is to make up for people not getting as far with the changes to wrestler, but that's not something I'm personally worried about.

    At best, wrestler helps me get through a couple levels at the highest RSL. Usually it's near the end of the challenge by the time I'm at high enough RSL that the wrestler trait becomes useful for me. I have spent some money on the game here and there, but I'm mostly F2P, so I don't spend lots of gold on healing - that means anytime wrestler does activate to save a survivor, that person is out of my lineup for 2+ hours. That time adds up quick, and if wrestler comes into play on a couple levels in a row, then most of my lineup is out for the rest of the day. I'm not a fan of the wrestler nerf, but I won't be missing out on many stars because of it.
    sbf
  • JackBauerJackBauer Member Posts: 1,550
    You still can wrestle.
    You will still get a heavy injured survivor with 2h15m healing time.
    But it's no longer guaranteed that you will succeed to get that single star to finish the last round. :p
    -----------------
    Remember to use your charge abilities
    paintbeast
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    > @Monsuta said:
    > > @DLich said:
    >
    > But the benefit of having round passes to saved up gas so you can use in the distance on Saturday is gone too
    >

    I’m stuck in the 4RP cycle as it is. I start each week on RSL 19. If I earn 8 RP’s I start on RSL 20.1 and since many players don’t have 3 lvl 22’s I myself would be starting later yet playing 2 more maps and earning 4 more double round rewards.

    Let’s suppose a player already gets 8 RP’s currently and has 2 lvl 21’s. They start at 21.1. In the new system they start at 20.1. They play 3 extra rounds. Yes it’s more rounds but if they can get 8 in the current system they’ll get 10 in the new one so it’s closer to 1 extra round.

    It’s not that far off from what it is now.

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  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    > @JackBauer said:
    > You still can wrestle.
    > You will still get a heavy injured survivor with 2h15m healing time.
    > But it's no longer guaranteed that you will succeed to get that single star to finish the last round. :p

    But it'll be instant death & defeat if spiked hug any of your survivor, wrestler can't save them no more.
  • TheSittingDuckTheSittingDuck Member Posts: 208
    Teeceezy said:

    > @Mack105 said:

    > @Teeceezy ,

    >

    > Will there be any changes to guild play with 2.8?



    There are a few minor features that help new players find guilds, but bigger ones are in the pipeline. :)

    Are you considering maybe guild awards depending on ending position in the ladder like that were suggested many times before? That would be great feature and incentive to fight for best spot, also won't take too much workhours to implement it I suppose.

    Oh, and will we know in 2.8 what's coming there, @Fearofabotplanet ?

    TroublemakerJadenBBRi
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited October 2017

    @Mabiki That's a totally legitimate concern and absolutely why we say that this is only a temporary solution. However, if it does help to mitigate the problem then I can say that the way that the round passes operates will also be changing in 2.8.

    Currently we get a round pass for every 5 completed rounds, which does not include rounds skipped with the pass. From 2.8 onwards this will change and you will earn a round pass for every five rounds completed including those skipped with the round pass. This change (as well as being a change which I personally welcome a lot because 5, 10, 15 etc is far more player friendly to track than the current system which is a little more opaque) should hopefully help you all to skip a few more rounds each week and get a few more stars to boot.

    I am going to post this in this thread (which will get lost) and in my own thread but I ran the numbers regarding my individual point in the game, where I'm at now, and where I expect to be in 2.8. The quote above from FOABP advises we earn round passes during skipped rounds and I also assume based on the current system if we get double rewards during a round that would give a round pass (5, 10, 15 etc...) then we earn double. Based on that information Here is a chart which I believe is easy to read.

    First column shows players who have multiple lvl 22's (RSL 15 Start, RSL 21 Triple)
    Second column shows players who have 2 lvl 21's (RSL 15 Start, RSL 20 Triple)
    Third column shows how that will adjust to 2.8 for the first week
    Fourth column shows how that will adjust to 2.8 for the second week and on (assuming a player can make it through 27.2)
    **Note this primarily is information for players stuck within the 4 RP cycle**


    Monsuta said:

    > @DLich said:



    But the benefit of having round passes to saved up gas so you can use in the distance on Saturday is gone too

    In these 2 instances it's only the 1st week which will be affected. Players who Start at 15 now and triple at 20 now won't see any changes in the amount of gas used (beyond week 1). Players who start at 15 now and triple at 21 now will see 2 round changes (beyond week 1)

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  • JackBauerJackBauer Member Posts: 1,550
    @Fearofabotplanet
    I haven't seen the pitchfork for a long time in the bundle shop. Hoped to see it on the extra bundles this weekend. What happend ? Digital Item out of stock ?
    -----------------
    Remember to use your charge abilities
    tabernacEdd8Debbo34bigbeano
  • snafusnafu Member Posts: 227
    edited October 2017
    Is "chance of being stunned" different than "stun resistance" or is Eugene's leader trait going to get nerfed balanced by 50%?
    jimmorrison369
  • PicPic Member Posts: 1,061
    edited October 2017
    Horrible... Interrupt nerf all over again, they just told us this time. I do like some of the update.
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