Upcoming Changes to the Wrestler Trait - Question For Advocates

This is a serious inquiry, no cheek or snark intended.

@WeekOne and @Putchuco were the most vocal lobbyists for changes to the Wrestler trait from what I saw so I'm going to tag them on this post, but feedback from people that were advocates for a change are also encouraged to respond.

The change NG is implementing to the Wrester trait in 2.8:

"This survivor automatically attacks any walker it struggles with each turn, dealing 40% of normal attack damage." [Silver: 65%; Gold: 95%].

(Wrestle attack will ignore body shot calculations)

Do you feel that:

- The change is spot on and you're happy with it?
- The change went too far?
- The change didn't go far enough?

Appreciate your time

tabernac
jimmorrison369PigcapibarabigbeanoCaptainslayerJadenbanzaiMack105GovernatorR2runfastKARAZIPKALITripodPutchucol2wannabezeowerus
«13

Comments

  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    edited October 2017
    The change is align with the existing meta.

    This was the only trait that could insta kill any type of walker regardless health and level. If scouts had a charge attack capable of insta killing a walker, and I don't know if a bruiser crits with his charge ability it also kills the target etc... then wrestler would make sense on that meta.

    Based on our current meta wrestler was too Over Powered and I'm guessing that is the reason why they are adjusting it. In my opinion it took too long, and it was perceived as "minor" issue until the Distance was released. Based on NG comments saying that they don't expect players to finish it, and that they designed for a mode where you will need to advance and progress by improving your survivors (via badges) I'd think they didn't expect what happened and that force them to prioritize this issue. I know what they said, but I think differently. Wrestling the Distance was too easy and they didn't accomplished their main goal with the game mode, it was a fiasco and it needed to be adjusted, they didn't do it listening to players but analyzing the way that they can accomplish their objectives. The own the game.

    But NML meta is base on building up damage, revenge, punish, retaliate, etc... the adjustment to wrestler now is comparable to other traits( comparable to retaliate or revenge). In my opinion I would also let bruiser stun while wrestling(I'd think bruisers need more love), but I don't think that is how it will work... and that would be my only addition to it, I'd think it will be usable but maybe not a must trait on every single class and on every single piece of armor.

    If you don't agree that wrestling was too powerful compare to other traits (the only reason to have in any class and as mandatory trait for any armor) and it wasn't aligned with the existing meta, then there is very little we can discuss about it.

    I'm happy with it just because I'd like a balanced meta(not only here but in any game). I don't like to have an unique and single answer to any challenge. I'd like games where you have different resources that needs to be used in different situations. But of course that is just me.
    tabernacjimmorrison369DBonescapibaraCaptainslayerKyrusEdd8
  • paintbeastpaintbeast Member Posts: 1,188
    @mik81 Where did you get the idea that you'll be able to crit with the new wrestler functionality? The description clearly says it will do 40%, 65%, or 95% of NORMAL damage.
    kjmia421zeowerus
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,931
    I see lot's of call-back to @Putchuco idea. I'm not sure about the details, but if it meant that wrestling stopped working all together at RSL+3. Then current change is better imo. Still sucks, but still usable up to at least RSL+7.
    TheLostOnescapibarazeowerus
  • TroublemakerTroublemaker Member Posts: 1,255
    edited October 2017
    Using Wrestler to kill walkers and move on (both in Challenges and The Distance), and then spending a ton of gold to heal and repeat is just absolute unhealthy gaming. No thinking, no variation, just repetitive “pay for progress”.

    That’s the main point IMO, not if it’s an exploit or no.

    I’m glad it has ended.

    * edit for typo
    ::
    Mavericks Guild Family
    DBonesjimmorrison369CaptainslayerKyrusTimboskikjmia421Edd8zeowerus
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    edited October 2017

    @mik81 Where did you get the idea that you'll be able to crit with the new wrestler functionality? The description clearly says it will do 40%, 65%, or 95% of NORMAL damage.

    You are right I thought we will get a normal attack (with some damage reduced based on the quality of the trait) that ignores body shoots and therefore it would open the chance to crit. But know that I read correctly is not an extra attack, is an special attack, that ignores body shoots. Looks to me like an additional retaliate/revenge attack. We use those traits, and in high RSL a walker attack could be an instant struggle, so this will help to bild up more damage out of a regular attack.
    paintbeastkjmia421zeowerus
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    @crambert_nec That's a nice question and I can only guess an answer.

    When I read all the pre info that NG was releasing I was thinking that maps will be less populated with maybe 1 or 2 big "bosses"(I'd think they even call them like that). So you will need to get there with survivors that have their charge abilities already up, good amount of stars, good epic and leg badges, burning damage (-10% off each turn is great) etc.. and you'll need to run and some point even die strategically. You may use a good set of survivors to kill 1 of those, then another good set for the other "boss" and so on...

    So in order to really beat the Distance you'll need an extensive roster of good to very good survivors. Nice badges, weapons, etc... And therefore when it was released no one could really beat it. You'll need to increase your roster, get tons of good badges, use gold to heal, etc...

    Since they are releasing new traits this new game mode could be an opportunity for long players to keep those survivors investments, those pinky guys, 7, 8 and 9 stars, would be really good even with old traits, so that people could keep them and at the same time start building new survivors with newer fancier traits.

    Right now you can beat the distance just with a big roster, quantity over quality. I though they wanted you to do quite the opposite, to invest en quality and not in quantity. Basically because those are long term decisions that usually help with the revenue.
    Captainslayer
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,243
    DBones said:

    I was in the boat with @Putchuco and @WeekOne, and I still am. However, I do not think NG made the right change. Putchuco's idea, to me, was FAR superior. Simply apply the same rules to wrestler that apply to bodyshots. In other words, the % chance at killing the walker in one shot starts getting reduced the more levels above RSL you go. At some point, bodyshots are essentially 100%. What Putchuco was suggesting (I think - please correct me if I'm wrong), was the same idea (but sort of in reverse) - at some point, wrestling ability is eventually reduced to 0%. I was - and remain - a big supporter of THAT plan. I am definitely not thrilled about the way NG is "fixing" the wrestler trait.

    This actually seems like a terrible idea. The walkers that I need to be saved from are the ones that I body shot 100% of the time to begin with. If Wrestler won't help my 2-pink star Hunter against a level 30 fatty, then what's the point of the trait? While I obviously prefer the current Wrestler, even the new one might be better than this proposal.
    Elder in Legacy Eh, a top 10 global Challenge and Guild Wars guild
    PM me or visit this link to join the Eh family!
    Visit this link for my Distance and Challenge strategy videos
    tabernacTheLostOnescapibaraKillersZ
  • crambert_neccrambert_nec Member Posts: 1,357
    @mik81 I just don't see how it's possible unless they completely abolish the body shot system, get rid of the seemingly exponential spawns on each turn, and let damage to walkers/raiders carry over with each restart.
    Leader of WATCH TOWER RoD
    Timboskikjmia421
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    I see your point and I'd think the quantity of walkers could be adjusted. Or level of walkers adjusted on spawns.
    crambert_neckjmia421
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited October 2017
    tabernac said:

    This is a serious inquiry, no cheek or snark intended.

    @WeekOne and @Putchuco were the most vocal lobbyists for changes to the Wrestler trait from what I saw so I'm going to tag them on this post, but feedback from people that were advocates for a change are also encouraged to respond.

    The change NG is implementing to the Wrester trait in 2.8:

    "This survivor automatically attacks any walker it struggles with each turn, dealing 40% of normal attack damage." [Silver: 65%; Gold: 95%].

    (Wrestle attack will ignore body shot calculations)

    Do you feel that:

    - The change is spot on and you're happy with it?
    - The change went too far?
    - The change didn't go far enough?

    Appreciate your time

    tabernac

    100%

    I love the idea of having to wrestle with the walker instead of instant kill.

    Instant kill does not belong in NML as far as I’m concerned and I don’t believe one trait should give us a guaranteed instant kill, period.

    Before some try to tell me wrestler does not instant kill “all the time”, let me reassure you all that I have the documentation to prove that it does [with a lvl 2 common wrestler armour no less] which is a complete farce to me.

    Instant kill has got to go and I am happy that NG is finally getting rid of it.

    As a player, I want goals and building up my survivors to be able to tackle the tough walkers and any other obstacle NML will give us is what gets me excited instead of what we have been dealing with for almost a year now.

    I am looking forward to 2.8 and can’t wait to test our new wrestler trait.

    WeekOne
    TroublemakerDBonesCaptainslayerKyrusTimboskikjmia421zeeblackEdd8TripodMrSorrowbladgierzeowerusKillersZFragzietdiddy
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited October 2017
    @Monsuta I used wrestler to instant kill the spikey with my LLS with my lvl 2 common wreslter armour in The Distance after I shot it with my incidiary riffle [charged up] on a lvl 22 survivor.

    The 2nd spikey took a couple of tries to take him down since my hunter wasn’t charged up.

    I don’t remember After The Wildfire Challenge... sorry :/
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited October 2017
    @paintbeast sure.... it would be nice to be able to use something like brain stab to kill a walker which would be considered instant kill but we would need to have our weapon charged up.

    Wrestler’s instant kill and the success rate is non sense to me.

    At this stage of the game, I shouldn’t feel confident going up against a lvl 41 walker and instant kill on wrestler trait gives us that which is wrong to me.
  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    edited October 2017
    If we look at Jesus as an example, he will be giving a nice % of damage per turn while he is wrestling with the walker.



    If we are properly equipped, proper level, etc.... and other strong survivors helping him out, there is a good chance we will get out of the struggle and continue with the mission.

    Not knowing if I am going to get out of the struggle 100% is exciting to me.

    I believe this will encourage us to work on upgrading our survivors, equipment, and adding nice badges so we can properly handle the tough walkers instead of relying on wrestler’s instant kill to do the job for us.
    sbfJadenMack105Timboskikjmia421Edd8DBoneszeowerusFragzie8N8
Sign In or Register to comment.