"Ultimate Challenge" event - DLich's assessment

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  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,007
    @DLich I agree the crates are the same/better in this new format, but the TG are not. Would you be willing to do a table in individual TG rewards?
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November 2017

    @DLich I agree the crates are the same/better in this new format, but the TG are not. Would you be willing to do a table in individual TG rewards?

    Based off OLT's site it's

    Round 1: 400 Trade Goods
    Round 2: 450 Trade Goods
    Round 3: 475 Trade Goods
    Round 4: 525 Trade Goods
    Round 5: 575 Trade Goods
    Round 6: 625 Trade Goods
    Round 7: 650 Trade Goods
    Round 8: 700 Trade Goods
    Round 9: 750 Trade Goods
    Round 10: 775 Trade Goods
    Round 11: 825 Trade Goods
    Round 12: 875 Trade Goods
    Round 13: 925 Trade Goods
    Round 14: 950 Trade Goods
    Round 15+: 1,000 Trade Goods for each Round

    In my own individual example 27.1 was round 30 in the old format. In this format 27.1 is round 19. So I'm losing out on rounds 20-30 for TG's at 1,000 TG's per round (total of 11,000 TG's less)

    Since it costs 5 gas per map at this level, 6 maps per round, 11 rounds I am saving 5x6x11= 330 gas in lieu of that 11K TG's.

    Edit - I know everyone doesn't play outposts but I am estimating...

    330 Gas = 165 outpost runs at 2 gas per run
    165 runs assuming 80% success rate = 132 successful runs with those 330 gas
    132 runs averaging 400 TG's per run = 52,800 TG potential

    Again this means nothing for players who don't play outposts.

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  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,007
    DLich said:

    Since it costs 5 gas per map at this level, 6 maps per round, 11 rounds I am saving 5x6x11= 330 gas in lieu of that 11K TG's.

    It's not quite that for me. While I too stopped at 27.1 in the old system (6 round passes) because the healing time did me in, I should be able to go a bit further in this new version. So let's say that I can go for the gold to get 7 round passes and finish at level 28.2.

    So on the plus side, if the round pass system were working, I should probably be able to earn 1 more round pass than I did in the old system, which would give me an extra 1,000 - 650 = 350 more TG. Add to that the extra TG I get from playing 3 more rounds, which is 3,000.

    So I will get be getting an additional 3,350 TG. But I will be losing out on the 11,000 TG I earned easily in the other system, giving me a net loss of 7,650 TG. That's a legendary crate every week that won't happen for me.

    Yes, I'll be saving gas, but the scavenge missions are more expensive than the challenge missions. And since I don't play Outposts, there is no way for me to make up the missing TG.

    Please let me know if you find an error in my calculations. This loss of TG is the major stumbling block for me with the new challenge system.

  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    27.1 old system was 30 total rounds (24 played rounds with 6 skips) giving you 27,025 total TG's from playing (first 6 skipped, next 6 doubled, last 18 singled)

    28.1 new system is 21 total rounds (15 played rounds with 6 skips) giving you 18,025 total TG's from playing (first 6 skipped, next 6 doubled, last 9 singled)

    28.1 new system is 21 total rounds (14 played rounds with 7 skips) giving you 18,600 total TG's from playing (first 7 skipped, next 7 doubled, last 7 singled)

    27,025 finishing 27.1 (round 30) old compared to 18,600 finishing 28.1 (round 21) new = 8,425 less TG's

    Here is a table I created for the old system which can still be used. Note the Green is when you are earning double rewards. It goes up to 7 skips. **Please note the round is played round TG's

    So if you are on 0 skips you will play 21 rounds but if you are on 7 skips you will play 14 rounds. The key is to compare 21 rounds on 0 skips (16,500 total TG's) to 14 rounds on 7 skips (18,600 TG's). I want to point that out to people.



    @TransmuteJun

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  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,007
    Thank you for your thorough analysis @DLich !

    So I'm losing more TGs than I thought. Yuck.
    DLichromeo
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 312
    @Dlich you are not only 11k TG behind but also a lot of supplies, chances of phones and gear and additional fuel in crates, which you won’t get from outpost.

    I would also say that the chances of visit in hospital are bigger in outpost.
    romeo
  • JerryDixonJerryDixon Member Posts: 386
    @TransmuteJun you also now have time to play outposts on days you would have played challenge. So you can still play the same amount of time and end up with even more TG. I’m assuming your aversion to outpost was playing on “off” days. We have several in my guild that don’t play Monday/Tuesday.
    Jerry Dixon
    JSS
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,171

    @TransmuteJun you also now have time to play outposts on days you would have played challenge. So you can still play the same amount of time and end up with even more TG. I’m assuming your aversion to outpost was playing on “off” days. We have several in my guild that don’t play Monday/Tuesday.

    If only it were that simple. TJ categorically dislikes Outposts regardless of when it is, so he is kind of screwed, TG-wise. The rest of us should be fine though.
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  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,007

    @TransmuteJun you also now have time to play outposts on days you would have played challenge. So you can still play the same amount of time and end up with even more TG. I’m assuming your aversion to outpost was playing on “off” days. We have several in my guild that don’t play Monday/Tuesday.

    Actually my aversion to Outposts is twofold. First, I don't like PvP. I started playing this game because Road to Survival was driving me nuts, and I didn't want to have to head-on battle other players and lose resources. While NG eventually 'removed' the possibility of losing TG while you weren't playing, because another player raided you, I don't trust them not to bring this back. We've all seen how NG will change rules when it suits them. The second issue is that NG has been attempting to 'force' players like me to play Outposts (for example, from back when you needed minimum 2000 influence to participate in supplies exchanges) and I really resent that. When they introduced Outposts, they said it was voluntary. Spending phones and using heros are also voluntary, but you'll notice that they try to get us to spend phones on crappy 10-radio hero calls (although I'm quite pleased with the 15-radio hero call they had recently) and try to get us to unlock/level heros by giving us tokens for the useless ones (e.g. Eugene). People resist those things, and I resist Outposts for similar reasons.

    Also, I haven't heard much positive about Outposts reasons, only complaints that the system isn't working right and that people are having problems. That's not exactly encouraging me to try it either. I don't plan to try Outposts until NG implements a way that you can delete/destroy your Outpost if you decide that you no longer want to play it. Notice that while they have 'removed' the 'stealing' of TG, they haven't done that... which also leads me to believe that they are leaving the door open to TG 'stealing' again.
    Timboski
  • crambert_neccrambert_nec Member Posts: 1,354
    @TransmuteJun It's been over a year since they removed "stealing." Let's entertain a situation where they decide to bring it back. You will still lose your TG that you've acquired in other areas of the game even if you don't play outpost, so I don't see how not playing now would change any of that. Why not play now while there's definitely no "stealing" and rack up huge TG amounts? Especially with all the newly freed up gas from the lessened challenge grind (hopefully permanent). There's probably still lots of minor problems with outposts, but if you're just using them to raid for TG only, you really have nothing to worry about. I really just don't get it.

    Unless you actually haven't even built your outpost or walker pit. Then I can somewhat understand your paranoia.
    Leader of WATCH TOWER RoD
  • JerryDixonJerryDixon Member Posts: 386
    @TransmuteJun I’ve literally raided outposts for hundreds of hours. To me it’s no different than scavenge except the reward is TG instead of XP, cans or gear. I understand your reasoning but how do you get tokens? The extra TG has enabled me to get many more pink stars than I would have otherwise. Hope you’ll reconsider.
    Jerry Dixon
    JSS
    crambert_necDLichEdd8Jaden
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 312
    > @JayZ said:
    > @Dlich you are not only 11k TG behind but also a lot of supplies, chances of phones and gear and additional fuel in crates, which you won’t get from outpost.
    >
    > I would also say that the chances of visit in hospital are bigger in outpost.
    >
    > Yes, but you can get those things in scavenger missions. Would you rather use 4 gas on a level 20 challenge mission or 5-6 gas on a level 25-27 scavenge mission? Saving gas on crappy low level missions is almost always beneficial to players.

    DLich was comparing ONLY TG to gas cost which is 100% incorrect because of the reasons I stated in previous comment.
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    ignas said:


    DLich was comparing ONLY TG to gas cost which is 100% incorrect because of the reasons I stated in previous comment.

    This is true. In the old style you could use those gas to get the rewards for completion as well as round TG's. I wish there was some type of compromise, believe me I don't want to lose ANYTHING that we were getting before.

    I am only trying to see the benefits of the challenge and compare the changes to what is being lost/gained.

    Round passes will be the same (or higher in some cases)
    Individual threshold rewards will be the same
    Guild threshold rewards will be the same

    We are playing less challenge therefore the main loss is TG for round rewards (since we are playing less rounds). In the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, I'd rather play less challenge and use that gas for other things than continue playing 24 rounds and using 270 gas and the time it takes to play those rounds for 9K TG difference.

    To be technical, if a player uses that gas saved on the distance they are getting tokens, something crates don't offer. In some cases you are getting more xp (100K distance map) than you would opening crates.

    Players can use that extra gas on whatever they wish, and yes at the end of the day if they choose to play scavenger missions they will make up for the crate rewards but still lose TG's. I understand there is a desire to "play less but not get less" and overall the main loss is the round TG's since that gas can be used to play scavenger missions if a player chooses to.

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  • mimicamimica Member Posts: 326
    Why not increase the tg earned per round to compensate
    TransmuteJunPig
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,081
    DLich said:

    ignas said:


    DLich was comparing ONLY TG to gas cost which is 100% incorrect because of the reasons I stated in previous comment.

    This is true. In the old style you could use those gas to get the rewards for completion as well as round TG's. I wish there was some type of compromise, believe me I don't want to lose ANYTHING that we were getting before.

    I am only trying to see the benefits of the challenge and compare the changes to what is being lost/gained.

    Round passes will be the same (or higher in some cases)
    Individual threshold rewards will be the same
    Guild threshold rewards will be the same

    We are playing less challenge therefore the main loss is TG for round rewards (since we are playing less rounds). In the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, I'd rather play less challenge and use that gas for other things than continue playing 24 rounds and using 270 gas and the time it takes to play those rounds for 9K TG difference.

    To be technical, if a player uses that gas saved on the distance they are getting tokens, something crates don't offer. In some cases you are getting more xp (100K distance map) than you would opening crates.

    Players can use that extra gas on whatever they wish, and yes at the end of the day if they choose to play scavenger missions they will make up for the crate rewards but still lose TG's. I understand there is a desire to "play less but not get less" and overall the main loss is the round TG's since that gas can be used to play scavenger missions if a player chooses to.



    This is correct but could they do a 1.5 version of guild rewards? For us at NOC it we would likely still lose TG but would gain additional radios to me that is a more fair trade off. Right now this week I think Guild rewards replaces the lost TG and the radios by far blow out the XP/Supplies lost from the lower levels.

    So if proposed keep this format and yes we lose some TG, but instead of reverting guild rewards back to the previous have it go to 1.5x the previous. We know they will not keep the current rewards as they are because that is wayyyyy too many phones to be giving away for free :)

    Then the additional gas is there for disposal where players can do scavenge or raids. So if same amount of time and gas is spent each week the player comes out with a few more radios and their choice of supplies or TG.
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,081
    That being said the chances of that legendary frag will be decreased dramatically. I tend to find most my frags during the challenge so by doing less missions I will lose frags and as I have level 19 toons I have no chance of completing distance on hard. But again give me radios and I will take this trade off.

    romeo
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    Speaking for myself and with the knowledge of the opinions of the development team, I think the chances of restoring resource stealing to outpost to be slightly less than the chances that we make "Increased Chances of Legendaries" permanent in the radio calls.

    We have lots of plans on the list, and some do involve ways to get players' survivors to... interact. We do want everyone to at least try everything, but we know people will always have preferences and favorite / least favorite game modes, and that is perfectly OK with us.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    TJS
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