Tomatoe drops in higher challenge difficulties possible?

Murdoque

As most of us can surely relate ro the plight of Sisyphus it would be a nice gesture to enable tomatoe drops throughout the challenge.
I'm sure I'm not the only one using most of the available gas for the challenge and seeing the cost for upgrading the buildings, that's frankly quite a daunting task when almost only getting them in the overpriced scavenge missions and from the pitifully inadequate fields.
As it was asked several times already this kind of drop can stop as soon as one is maxed on cans again, so that even the most industrious of us (or the ones who are willing to spend a lot) are not at an disadvantage for using so much time or money to get there sooner, while leaving the ones who are mostly f2p a slim chance to catch up before the next council upgrade looms on the horizon.

DLich

We'll be playing nearly 1/2 the amount of missions that we used to with no cool down timer.

So if a player made it through 30 rounds (24 played) as f2p they'll most likely play through 16 rounds (13 played).

So that's 11 rounds less. 11 rounds of gas at 5 per map. That's 30 gas per map,
11 maps = 330 extra gas to run on scavenger missions.

Personally Even with this council upgrade thing I don't want supplies at high RSL challenges especially since we'll be playing so many less rounds now.

Murdoque

Let's hope it turns out that way!

JayZ

On a related note, upgrading the Council and Training Grounds should get me to PL68, which is the max player level.

Does that mean once I get to PL68, I will no longer be able to receive supplies from wall walkers, cinema vids, etc.? @Kaz

I get that full supplies is something that people complain about a lot, but artificially restraining progress is also annoying.

Why can't supply rewards work this way? If you have all buildings maxed, you won't receive supplies from any missions, quests, TG crates, wall walkers, camp videos, etc. If you still have even one building left to upgrade, then you should be able to receive supplies from anything in the game.

capibara

Shteevie

We don't have the ability to turn tomatoes on and off based on the player's current bar being full. If we did, players might likely leave the bar full, in the hopes that it increased the chances of getting other rewards like phones. This would be bad for them, and therefore bad for the game.

As it stands, supplies can be found in missions up to and including difficulty 22. This is an increase of level from before the balance changes went into effect. Players with level 23 or 24 survivors will get about 5 rounds of challenge play in before supplies leave the loot tables.

We're not that eager to change the loot tables so drastically because of the lack of consistency it creates. As can be seen elsewhere on these forums, editing timings, events, and drop tables can cause a lot of confusion and disappointment. Contrary to recent results, we are actually trying to improve the consistency of our messaging.

Playing supplies scavenges may not be the best way to earn stars for your guild, but it is the best way to earn supplies most effectively.

Murdoque

So I comes down to the old conundrum be selfish or help the group, well I guess I have to resign myself to being the aforementioned Sisyphus a long time to come ;-)

Mystique

@Shteevie correct me if I’m wrong, but for end gamers we will probably have 5-7 Round passes to take to the next challenge every week! So that means we skip right to RSL 22-23! So no tomatoes at all for us from the challenge?

Camel56

One thing to keep in mind, is round passes. With the new system in place now, a high level player will be skipping right over the missions where they can get cans. If I read it right, you can only get cans on RSL 22, before you stop getting cans at RSL 23. This is going to take a very long time getting cans which are now depleted!

Drunken

@Shteevie

I am not a code writer but your statement appears to be flawed. When I buy an UG I don't get gas in crates anymore or gas from videos, or walkers on wall. So there is at least on that level some form of coding that prevents that. I can still get it in daily missions.

I agree players would work the system to increase odds of other items if Supplies weren't used. But one way to keep players using supplies is to offer them in trade shop more often. Why not offer tokens bi monthly or monthly for supplies? I know you guys are attempting to make radios more rare and harder to obtain that is obvious whether admitted or not and radios lead to tokens, but offering 50 class tokens for X amount of supplies would be great for all players who are at that high level.

@kaz how about your thoughts on this?

Tripod

> @Shteevie said:
> As it stands, supplies can be found in missions up to and including difficulty 22. This is an increase of level from before the balance changes went into effect.

It's been at lvl 23 for quite a while @Shteevie , hopefully you mean it's been raised to lvl 24 that we'll still receive tomatoes in after mission crates. As it's been, once fuel cost goes from 4tanks to 5 per challenge mission, we stop getting tomatoes. I really dislike this format, instead of making supplies more useful to spend in game.

Boukephalos

JayZ said:

I get that full supplies is something that people complain about a lot, but artificially restraining progress is also annoying.

@Shteevie , suggestion for dealing with the maxed-out-supplies problem: while the player has a full supply meter, their melee survivors on overwatch should be able to throw tins of tomatoes at enemies moving but outside melee range. No (or minimal damage) but chance for interrupt and a comic "donk" noise as it bounces off their heads.

JayZ

Shteevie said:

We don't have the ability to turn tomatoes on and off based on the player's current bar being full. If we did, players might likely leave the bar full, in the hopes that it increased the chances of getting other rewards like phones. This would be bad for them, and therefore bad for the game.

That's fair. I'm not sure if you were responding to my post, but if you were, I wasn't advocating for turning tomatoes on or off based on a player's bar being full. I fully understand your concern with people trying to game the system. Rather, I was advocating for it based on a players total building points, rather than camp level.

I'm no video game programming whiz, but I do code quite frequently in statistical packages. It seems like currently, there's a toggle for wall walkers where players can receive supplies if they are below the max camp level (PL68 right now). Instead of "receive supplies from wall walker if below PL68", can't we add an "and" condition so it's "receive supplies from wall walker if below PL68 AND below 1611 BPs" (which I think is the new max if I'm not terrible at math). Similarly, can't we do the same thing with challenge missions, TG crates, etc.?

Basically, I want players to be able to get supplies in every way possible until they are truly maxed and have nothing left to build (not just at the max player level).

RoadRash

I dunno in about 3 weeks I'll probabbly be right back to not caring about tomatoes again if not sooner.

thisdoesfine

Nowwwwww the end gamers are upset they don't get supplies in challenge crates. It's been highly annoying trying to catch up and not getting supplies after RSL 23. (I'm lvl 20 survivors, about to be council 20 here soon)

Welcome to the age of scavenging end gamers. You brought it upon yourself, lol.

That being said, @Shteevie coding is completely up to how the developers see fit. I'm sure the system could recognize max level & full supplies and remove them from all drops.

It might not be a quick implementation, but, I'm sure it could be done.

Jaden

@thisdoesfine

Well... no one ever asked "make it so we don't get supplies when there are things to upgrade". And when this was implemented, there was the old challenge format which was different from the new one.

So no, we did not bring it upon ourselves. NG decided to do it the way they did. Players would have done it differently.

I agree with the last part, though: why not give supplies until all buildings are upgraded plus supplies are maxed?

Endgamers can't help but being full all the time. There are no more buildings to upgrade and only so many badges to craft. There is nothing else that can be done with supplies unless there is a trading event - which NG decides when to have.

So if the switch wouldn't be "if supplies full, no tomatoes" but "if no more buildings to upgrade plus supplies full, no tomatoes" that should eliminate the "players could be trying to play the system" concern, no? @Shteevie

I have no idea how hard that would be to implement, of course...

SPC_TORRES

Scavenging was never the problem, I had the problem with the pending update and not uncapping the max supplies
I sent @Kaz and @Shteevie some screen shots of a very small sample of the supplies being lost in a days time, and had been maxed for sometime
I started my council upgrade this morning, finished out Season 8 The Morning after, 16/21 of normal distance and only 1 supply scavenge mission and collecting from the farm plots
5 hrs = almost a million supplies




So maybe NG will get out in front of this and " soon " when the max supplies start happening they will have a solution for it.
Rather having us max supplies and still see this :

DLich

thisdoesfine said:

Welcome to the age of scavenging end gamers. You brought it upon yourself, lol.

A game that still gives out supplies when they have nothing to build & are maxed... We asked for things to do with our supplies. I don't think anyone, not a single "end gamer" asked for a council upgrade.

"You brought it upon yourself" is to be the cause of one's own trouble. Having a limit on supplies, not being able to use supplies is hardly bringing it upon ourselves.

thisdoesfine

@DLich I agree it sucks. What sucks equally, perhaps more, is feeling like you are standing still because those supplies stop coming so early in the challenge.

Getting NG to stop the supplies is what I meant by bringing it upon yourself, asking them to stop getting supplies bc you're full. It helped those that were maxed but hurt those below.

Obviously nobody intended anything other than stopping supplies for those that were maxed out with nothing to build. That wasn't what happened, unfortunately.

Council upgrades will continue to come and supplies will eventually get used. Just like early on when your XP was always full because you couldn't upgrade as fast as you could collect.

At least NG does goods for supply events now and then.

DLich

We cool @thisdoesfine

We’re all farming the “new grind” now lol. Old grind is dead (challenge)

Long live the new grind (supplies)

Japes87

I have a few level 23 survivors and mostly 22s, I will need over 60 million tomatoes to even get to the next council level and well over 100 million after that.. I farmed supplies scavenge for 3 hours straight last night with Glenn in the lead and farmed just shy of 1.6 million tomatoes..

As @Camel56 mentioned , I earn about 8 round passes a challenge pushing for max stars , which I am forced to use every challenge I start , there needs to be a solution to this so that challenge players not maxed on supplies can get them partly without scavenging.. that tomato grind makes any challenge grind I ever saw miniscule . If there's a way to fix this , please do so

Camel56

@Mystique , sorry for duplicating your post. We must have had the same thought at the same time, because I didn't see your post describing the same concerns!

@Kaz , I just thought of a way to make cans available to high level players!

You can develop a code, that when you get the XP crates at higher RSL and do nothing you just get the displayed XP. The revised code, would allow you to choose the XP, or tap on the XP to exchange it for Supplies instead. This action of tapping on the XP would in effect be the same as Scrapping gear while still in the end mission screen. Being able to choose from supplies or XP would be solved for everyone. I'm sure there is someone in all of NG that could accomplish that change.

Tripod

> @Camel56 said:
> @Mystique , sorry for duplicating your post. We must have had the same thought at the same time, because I didn't see your post describing the same concerns!
>
> @Kaz , I just thought of a way to make cans available to high level players!
>
> You can develop a code, that when you get the XP crates at higher RSL and do nothing you just get the displayed XP. The revised code, would allow you to choose the XP, or tap on the XP to exchange it for Supplies instead. This action of tapping on the XP would in effect be the same as Scrapping gear while still in the end mission screen. Being able to choose from supplies or XP would be solved for everyone. I'm sure there is someone in all of NG that could accomplish that change.

@Camel56 that is brilliant! Seriously the best idea I've heard. @Shteevie @kaz this should really be considered.

Captainslayer

Oh sh*t reading this has made me realize the new challenge has infact increased my grind If I want to get lvl 24 survivors sometime this year I'm actually going to have to actually do scavenge missions for tomatoes