3 lvl 22+ start at lvl 17 just like lvl 23’s & 24’s

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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    JayZ said:

    ignas said:

    Why are you all considering level of survivors and not taking into account pink stars?

    Compare player with 22 level survivors and 5 pink stars on them to guy with banch of 23 level survivors withou pink stars.

    First one not only will get way more stars and almost extra RP but also will go further into challenge, so again gain more stars and RP

    Why would that be a comparison, though? Pink stars is not really relevant to this discussion. The question is: should players upgrade their level 22 survivors to level 23? We're not trying to compare two DIFFERENT players. It's not like we're trying to compare Movado's 4 pink star survivors to someone who doesn't have any pinks.

    The fundamental question we are addressing is whether upgrading from level 22 disadvantages players.
    Because you missed or didn't read Shstevie response. I can see where the posters response is coming from. If all things equal so lets just say for this conversation all the toons are legendary with no pinks. A player who is level 23,23, and rest 22 would outscore a person who is all level 23.

    The @ignas questioning is directly from shteevie which he basically said 10 star people are gonna blow blast the difference in level starts which is a given. But majority of players aren't 10 star in fact probably only 1 percent or less have 10 star toons. So @JayZ we have to look at all things being equal. The question is does 23,23,22 legendary toons out score all 23+ toons? The answer in Dlichs data is yes. So for my example of all legendary its better to hold off for max stars, there is a tipping point tho where higher stars will earn more than 22s but what point that is depends knowledge, luck, skill in that order. We all know that maps spawn differently and that can impact our stars. Also we know that a player with 22 toons that have 10 stars are gonna out score me with 24 toons with 7 stars if everything else is considered equal.

    The stance NG has taken in this post tho is extremely flawed. Best way to gather the data would be find what range majority of players from 22-23 toon level and how many stars they have... I would venture it is probably 7* easy to obtain 7* after that it is costly. Then analyze and see okay this 22 with 7* toons is scoring hypothetically 1300 stars weekly but this level 23 with 7* is only scoring 1200 again hypothetically both are similar in play style and played same time amount.

    ignas
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 369
    > @JayZ said:
    > Why are you all considering level of survivors and not taking into account pink stars?
    >
    > Compare player with 22 level survivors and 5 pink stars on them to guy with banch of 23 level survivors withou pink stars.
    >
    > First one not only will get way more stars and almost extra RP but also will go further into challenge, so again gain more stars and RP
    >
    > Why would that be a comparison, though? Pink stars is not really relevant to this discussion. The question is: should players upgrade their level 22 survivors to level 23? We're not trying to compare two DIFFERENT players. It's not like we're trying to compare Movado's 4 pink star survivors to someone who doesn't have any pinks.
    >
    > The fundamental question we are addressing is whether upgrading from level 22 disadvantages players.

    Just illustrating how the new challenge is not fair, giving less stars/rewards to players that spend more time on progressing.

    This example maybe is a little bit exaggerated but possible. Levels of survivors are 1 thing but you know exactly that also pink stars MATTERS in body shots etc which can or not take you to higher RSLs.

    In every single game you need to progress to get better rewards and prestige (stars in this case). The way this challenge was constructed it is the opposite way.
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    Firekid said:

    I don't need understand isn't this the case all the way through, so people with level 14 survivors going up to 15 or what ever would lose stars until they got enough of their people levelled up and gear then they will be able to do bette than the people who are level 14? Also if Level 22 people get 4 rounds at easier level if you have loads of 23's should you be able to go 4 higher rounds further or there abouts to cancel it out?

    The moment you upgrade your 3rd lvl 23 survivor you better be sure you have gear ready for them... Also the misnomer of making it "4 higher rounds further" is not possible by having only 3 lvl 23's. The moment you upgrade your 3rd you IMMEDIATELY LOSE 4 ROUNDS AND NOW HAVE TO MAKE UP THOSE 4 ROUNDS TO GET BACK TO "EVEN". The logic behind this is you lose 4 easy rounds (15,16,20.2, 21.2) and make up those 4 extra rounds on the back end (27.1, 27.2, 27.3, 28.1)

    To simply say "cancel out" it's hardly an even swap to give up 4 early rounds and replace it with 4 later rounds when the only thing you did differently is upgrade 1 survivor (or in some cases unlock a hero)

    *edit - in addition, when comparing my above example, if a player has 2 lvl 23's and can make it to 26.3 (as an example) if they upgrade a 3rd lvl 23 and can now make it to 27.3 (an entire rsl higher) they still would have 1 round less stars than they did before upgrading their 3rd lvl 23. So a week or two go by, they upgrade 1 or 2 more survivors to lvl 23... They spend tens of millions of xp to upgrade better weapons and they make it that 4th round.

    So they lost out on 15, 16, 20.2, 21.2 = 72 + 18 + 18 + 18 + 18 = 144 stars... But they've now made it to 28.3 by completing 27.1, 27.2, 27.3, 28.1... that's 109 + 18 + 18 + 18 + 18 = 181 stars.

    So when it's all said and done, they've upgraded 4 pieces of gear (12 total upgrades) and 2 survivors and spent close to 25 million xp and their reward is 37 more stars than they did before doing all this upgrading. Again this assumes they "make up" the 4 rounds

    25 million xp for 33 more stars is 757K XP per star!!

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  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    DLich said:

    Kaz advised today that players with at least 3 lvl 20's but no more than 2 lvl 23's will start at RSL 15

    Players with 3 or more lvl 23's start at RSL 17

    If you have AT LEAST 3 lvl 20's and NOT MORE THAN 2 lvl 23's DO NOT UPGRADE ANY MORE HERO's/SURVIVORS!!!

    You are getting RSL 15
    You are getting RSL 16
    You are getting RSL 20.2
    You are getting RSL 21.2

    As a player with 3+ lvl 23's I don't get these RSL's. You effectively get 144 more stars than me. 4 rounds. This is the worst star loss I've ever seen. In my interview i found that 2 rounds wasn't so bad... 4 rounds is atrocious!!

    I have lvl 23's so it's too late for me. But if you have all lvl 22's or you have no more than 2 lvl 23's I would immediate stop leveling up your survivors..

    @DLich

    I have two accounts. One account has 3 or more level 20 survivors and it did start at RSL 15.

    My 2nd account however has over 3 level 22 survivors and NO level 23 survivors and it started at RSL 17. I can't have level 23 survivors on that account since my council building is only level 21 still.
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @anniesprinkles

    Are you on LINE.... I would like to track you for data purposes. Once you are able to upgrade toons to 23 only upgrade 2 and see how far and how many stars you earn. Then once you make the leap to 3rd 23 track how many stars you get. Using DLich data once you take that 3rd toon to 23 you should see a drop in stars..

    May I ask how many pink stars your toons have? Do you push to the point you can only 1 star missions? Do you use combine melee and range depending map?
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018


    My 2nd account however has over 3 level 22 survivors and NO level 23 survivors and it started at RSL 17. I can't have level 23 survivors on that account since my council building is only level 21 still.

    That shouldn't be...

    @Kaz



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  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @DLich

    I made a point to see what RSL I was starting off at on both accounts and the one with only level 22 survivors started off at RSL 17.

    @Drunken

    I'm on LINE...
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

    mudpie
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    was that with or without round passes @anniesprinkles
    DLichJenng
  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @Drunken

    That was before I hit my round passed to begin. Yes I made sure to not get that number mixed up with the number it changes to one you start your passes.
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

    mudpie
  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @Drunken

    I had 5 round passes when I started. I have completed two rounds so far at this time. My difficulty level is 23 right now.
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

    mudpie
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @anniesprinkles

    Thank you.... Will be interesting to see if they make the adjustment next week and start you lower.

    @Kaz
    Is this a case of *working as intended*
    mudpie
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    @DLich I don't want to quote your entire post because it's too long to nicely fit in a quote, but I think you're missing my point.

    1. Upgraded survivors = farther in Distance = more/better badges/tokens = more progress on challenges
    2. It's not just about "making up levels at the back end". Rather, my argument is that there are MORE levels at the backend because everyone has triple rounds at the same point, which means that end gamers will probably get to play more levels because their higher level survivors are better equipped to handle the triple rounds at higher levels.
    DLichanniesprinkles
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @JayZJayZ

    Simply taking toons to level 23 will not push them towards the back end of the distance. I have 7 star toons with paid for gear and I rarely get to the components and never to the Frags. I think with 8* I could do it
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    But also I can counter your argument of better badges. By staying at level 22 and clearing more rounds in the front end you have better odds of picking up frags and also gaining supplies. Right now because I started with 8 round passes I get 0 supplies in the challenge. I am at 19m supplies and would like to upgrade council. So do I not push on challenge to get supplies?

    So by default with new council those lower levels in the challenge are more important than the back end.
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    I think everyone makes some interesting points. I tend to agree with @JayZ on this one.

    I'm surprised no one has asked or maybe I've missed it somewhere.

    Will your start rsl change when you have 3 lvl24's ?
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
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    JayZ
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    TJS said:

    I think everyone makes some interesting points. I tend to agree with @JayZ on this one.



    I'm surprised no one has asked or maybe I've missed it somewhere.



    Will your start rsl change when you have 3 lvl24's ?

    23 and 24 are on the same system so no it wont (or shouldn't as it's been written in the notes/announcement). 23 and 24 are on the same structure

    20 - 22 are suppose to be on the same structure too but I'm hearing many with only 3 lvl 23's are starting on RSL 17 (the 23 & 24 structure)

    Idk.

    I am happy there's less grinding and I can pursue outposts this weekend for free with 1 minute gas. Time to get my TG's up and stay off the forums from friday - monday while I "Dive on in"




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  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    Drunken said:

    Simply taking toons to level 23 will not push them towards the back end of the distance. I have 7 star toons with paid for gear and I rarely get to the components and never to the Frags. I think with 8* I could do it

    I agree. I am in the same position (7 star toons that are level 23) without much paid for gear, but with gear that has "ideal" traits. A LOT of getting the epic components/frags lies with strategy and how well you use your survivors (which I really like about the Distance), but it's unquestionable that level 24 survivors will be significantly better than level 22 survivors. Given the exponential increase in survivor and gear damage (19% at each level), 2 levels can make a HUGE difference.
    David_H79Drunkenanniesprinkles
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541

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  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @Kaz

    I don't really care what RSL I start off at, but when you say level 22 survivors are starting off at RSL15 and my level 22 survivors started off at RSL 17, then there is something going on here that isn't quite right. So I only think it is right to let us know what is going on so we're not all just guessing.

    Thank You
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

    mudpie
  • _Lily__Lily_ Member Posts: 597

    DLich said:

    Kaz advised today that players with at least 3 lvl 20's but no more than 2 lvl 23's will start at RSL 15

    Players with 3 or more lvl 23's start at RSL 17

    If you have AT LEAST 3 lvl 20's and NOT MORE THAN 2 lvl 23's DO NOT UPGRADE ANY MORE HERO's/SURVIVORS!!!

    You are getting RSL 15
    You are getting RSL 16
    You are getting RSL 20.2
    You are getting RSL 21.2

    As a player with 3+ lvl 23's I don't get these RSL's. You effectively get 144 more stars than me. 4 rounds. This is the worst star loss I've ever seen. In my interview i found that 2 rounds wasn't so bad... 4 rounds is atrocious!!

    I have lvl 23's so it's too late for me. But if you have all lvl 22's or you have no more than 2 lvl 23's I would immediate stop leveling up your survivors..

    @DLich

    I have two accounts. One account has 3 or more level 20 survivors and it did start at RSL 15.

    My 2nd account however has over 3 level 22 survivors and NO level 23 survivors and it started at RSL 17. I can't have level 23 survivors on that account since my council building is only level 21 still.
    This happened to me also. Level 22 survivors and yet I started the challenge at level 17.
    anniesprinklesmudpie
  • warlordfwarlordf Member Posts: 220
    JayZ said:

    Just as a note: Challenges, while important, aren't everything. Upgrading your survivors will also help you in other game modes, especially the Distance.

    It seems silly to me to delay progress on your survivors and camp for a few more stars. If there's a major imbalance in the game causing star loss and delaying player upgrades, then NG will probably fix it at some point. At that point, your survivors will be 3 levels behind max players, and you'll have a lot of catching up to do.

    this was my first idea. is it so easy for top players with only 2 23 level warriors to finish the distance every week and get the best prizes like the 4 level components and fragments? or the prizes in high rounds of challenge are that great that justify not trying to have enough survivors to get as far as possible in the distance mode?
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @JayZ

    While I agree the #1 objective of this game is the challenge and stars. Even if say 24 can hit the 2 epic frags(really that's what we want) at 7* we also decrease the amount of crates we open in the challenge. Challenge if not mistaken has the best odds of getting legendary gear and Epic/Leg components.

    So if level 22 is doing 4 more maps and earning more stars they are likely getting 1-2 more Challenge crates and 24 more end of mission crates.

    So wouldn't that be a wash in your eyes? I see it as trading one aspect of game for other. This aspect I just used benefits a guild where the distance only benefits you.

    Out of curiosity what level are you reaching in the distance on the norm? I know I can get to 18/21 if I try weekly, but honestly it takes additional gas/time/effort for minimal reward after legendary crates.
    JayZ
  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @_Lily_

    Thank you for posting that, since I don't think anyone believes me. <3
    "A Rott's tough exterior is merely a protective shell that hides a wealth of sensitivity they have within"
    Johnny "Drama" Chase

    mudpieDLich_Lily_
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @anniesprinkles

    I fully believed you I just wish it wasn't true lol. I would love to see your total star count vs mine. I would even use similar star toons just to get a closer ideal of the star difference.
    DLichanniesprinkles
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,374
    edited March 2018
    I play this type of game for progression and levelling up. I want all of my survivors to be as strong as they can be. I honestly don't understand why you would want to gimp yourself to squeeze out a few stars on a low RSL. Ultimately it's meaningless.

    I think in this system it's worthwhile to keep 2 at 23 before taking the plunge whilst you get weapons and armour ready for your entire roster. The 144 extra stars is only there for the people who stop at RSL27. Someone with a full team of level 23 survivors and 26 equipment should be able to push well beyond this to make up for the loss of low level rounds.
    anniesprinklesJayZ
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    @_Lily_ and @anniesprinkles are you accounting for round passes? did you have 2 round passes which made you start at level 17?
    MattOfEarth
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