3 lvl 22+ start at lvl 17 just like lvl 23’s & 24’s

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  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    Drunken said:

    So if level 22 is doing 4 more maps and earning more stars they are likely getting 1-2 more Challenge crates and 24 more end of mission crates.

    So wouldn't that be a wash in your eyes? I see it as trading one aspect of game for other. This aspect I just used benefits a guild where the distance only benefits you.

    Out of curiosity what level are you reaching in the distance on the norm? I know I can get to 18/21 if I try weekly, but honestly it takes additional gas/time/effort for minimal reward after legendary crates.

    Even with the UC, I found myself with levels left to play on Sunday, so I guess the gear thing didn't impact me too much. If I run out of challenge missions, I usually run Outposts, which is a very cost (but not time) effective way of getting legendary gear (indirectly through TGs). The next few weeks, I won't feel bad about not playing challenge missions because I definitely need to grind for supplies.

    I typically get to the second set of Aaron tokens on the Distance with no problems. If I have enough gas, I can usually get through 1-2 of the component levels. The fragment level depends a lot more on what the spawn settings and objectives are.
  • _Lily__Lily_ Member Posts: 597
    @JayZ With 6 round passes I started the challenge on 22.1
    anniesprinklesmudpie
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @JayZ

    And you have no 8 star toons? I have 1 7* toon for each class, so I have to becareful to protect them for later rounds. I think this Saturday I am gonna try to see how far I can actually get if I watch videos and play out each map. That takes more time and effort maybe more than it is worth

    I typically grind my ass off on Sundays to get stars on a UG cause I am hungover and don't want to do anything else haha.
  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @JayZ

    I had 5 round passes. But before you start the challenge it says the starting round difficulty and then once you hit start challenge the 5 passes move that number up. So I definitely started at RSL 17 with lvl 22 being the highest level survivors I have on that account.

    On my 2nd account that has highest lvl 20 survivors it started at RSL 15.

    I made a point to look at the numbers because in the old system my lvl 20 survivors would have started the same as everybody else above me and was quite surprised when it didn't match my main account.

    I honestly thought that my main account was still going to be the same start as everybody higher then me anyway, because why should that have changed. I just thought you guys might want to know the information you have been given is WRONG.
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  • anniesprinklesanniesprinkles Member Posts: 267
    @JayZ

    And you should know I'd be getting more than only 2 round passes by now. :D
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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    @Mabiki the conclusion is based on the fact that if I make it to 28.1 with multiple lvl 23’s that a person with only 2 lvl 23’s can make it to 27.1 and still get about 9 more stars than me.

    3 full rsl 27 rounds less than me. 9 more stars than me.

    But once they upgrade their 3rd lvl 23 then it goes back to less than me if they make it to that same rsl 27.1. (135 less). If they get to rsl 27.2 it’s 90 less than me. If they get to rsl 27.3 it’s 45 less than me.

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  • Japes87Japes87 Member Posts: 1,399
    @Mabiki There's nothing imaginary about the star loss , I believe you are confusing two separate issues .. I have 5 level 23 survivors , the rest level 22 and 21 with no level 23 base gear. I had 8 round passes from last week and started this challenge at RSL 23.2 , I have a very real star loss of 145 stars compared to someone with only 2 level 23 survivors , compared to last week . Sure , once I collect about a billion tomatoes and manage to upgrade hundred million or so xp to get level 26 gear , I might be able to break even or get a small amount more stars than before, but these will be earned with the very top end of the challenge where there is healing penalties and much more time taken to achieve stars .

    This is a very real star loss for some players and we have been through this already before , the imaginary star loss you may be referring to , is the one from the UC where every one equally loses stars (which is where people were confused when NG started attempting to adjust the grind) .. This was one of the main reasons I left the game in the first place, and I'm completely baffled why they have gone down this road again .
    ignas
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    @anniesprinkles and @_Lily_ got it! Sorry, had to check. Anyways, hope your starting RSL gets sorted out soon!
    anniesprinkles_Lily_
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,519
    @Drunken nope, one 7* in each class. Just a lot of Sasha + charged Shooters or Assault based teams
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    edited March 2018
    @Japes87

    I am most definitely NOT referring to the Ultimate Challenge.

    I consider this star loss imaginary for a couple reasons - one being that we haven't even completed this Challenge yet to have any real basis from which to judge. At best, it's currently a projected star loss. I think it's patently unfair to come to the conclusion this new format is bad for maxed out players before we've even had one complete challenge cycle to gather actual data.

    And two - the "star loss" assumes someone with 2 level 23 survivors will get to nearly the same place in the Challenge as someone with a full roster. I don't think that's likely to happen. I didn't buy into this argument the last time it was made either. Players with a full roster of level 23s will get farther than some with just 2, and should have no problem getting far enough on their triple rounds to earn more stars, and more of those stars will be coming at actual high level Challenge play - the kind of play I'm interested in.
    .
    There's no way I can convince you or DLich you're wrong, so I'm not trying. But I think it's important to point out that not everyone agrees with this assessment.

    If the actual data bears out that players with just 2 level 23s have a star advantage, I will have no problem acknowledging it. But it wouldn't change my own play style, even if I could go back in time and un-level all my 23s, I wouldn't do so, nor would I advise anyone else to avoid upgrading.

    I, for one, am happy to see an improvement to the grind, even if it turns out to be true that players who work the system have a mathematical advantage.

    And frankly, players can't have it both ways. If you want less grind, you're going to play fewer rounds. If you then complain that someone else has more stars because they get to play more low-level rounds, then you're going to have to accept the grind of more low level rounds. I don't want that. I remember what happened the last time they "fixed" the lost stars problem by doing that very thing and adding to the low-level grind so many of us have been complaining about for months.

    At the very least, I feel like we should let one actual challenge cycle finish before we start drawing conclusions. @DLich can LOL on my posts all he wants, but waiting for actual data before again promoting the idea that no one should level survivors seems to me the more reasonable and responsible position.
    Japes87SCBMAPhalanx44xbamfx
  • Japes87Japes87 Member Posts: 1,399
    I feel like there has been some great middle ground ideas suggested over the past while for the grind fix , I was never a proponent of the UC anyways because I believed that all they had to do was make round passes optional to use. But I think this comes down to a fundamental paradigm I have about any video game I have ever played , you earn your way to the top . If you want to compete with the top players , you have to earn your way to the top and spend the time and grind , then be rewarded with your characters having value. I understand where you're coming from and I know that the exact 135 stars or whatever can't be substantiated the same in every case , but the fact is that I have to work harder and spend more gold to get the same stars I did last week and others don't. I'll let this all settle and see how things go , just took issue with the "imaginary" part of your statement @Mabiki
    Jadenignas
  • JechumJechum Member Posts: 58
    edited March 2018
    @DLich or @Drunken can one of you translate what I’m asking for in game jargen.

    I just realized looking at the spreadsheets that using average of high three toons is broken. It allows gaming of the system... keep all toons low level with only 1 very high. Thus NG created what I saw as an illogical Challenge System.

    I’m a proponent for a simplified challenge system.

    Challenge starts X difficulty levels below your highest toon. (X= Highest level toon divided by 3 round down.)

    +1 difficulty level for the first X rounds (Until difficulty equals Highest toon level)
    +1 difficulty every 2 rounds for the next 10 rounds (Difficulty +5 of highest toon)
    +1 difficulty every three rounds after difficulty is +5 of highest toon.




  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    Shteevie said:


    However, we also believe that the system that is in place gives players a good reason to continue upgrading, trying new strategies, looking for new gear, and collecting components for badges. That is what the system is intended to do.

    I will agree with you players should always look for new strategies and gear especially since they are going to need it once they upgrade their third lvl 23 survivor :dizzy:
    Shteevie said:


    If two players play the same number of rounds, the one that started at the higher difficulty will get the higher score. If two players have the same starting level, the one who plays more missions more skillfully will get the higher score. It's just that simple.

    This is true.

    The Chart I made concurs with this sentiment. But there is 1 slight flaw with it and it's that NG continually says upgrading a lvl should allow an additional round. IE if 22's can make it to 27 then 23's can make it to 28. Based on my chart, and the 4 levels, and the double rounds...

    Round 15 for lvl 20-22 is RSL 24.2
    Round 15 for lvl 23-24 is RSL 26.2

    But I do agree that players with 23-24 will get more stars if they complete the same number of rounds as 20-22.

    I thank you for your candor @Shteevie as I said in my discussion with @ALF4reals none of this even effects me but I want to help others make education decisions based on what's important to them.



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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    @all Please look at the chart above

    A player with lvl 22 survivors makes it to 27.1.
    They get 4 RP's because they completed 20 rounds
    That's 808 stars. They're loving life!!

    Then they upgrade their their third lvl 23 survivor :dizzy:

    Now they play in the 23-24 tier.
    Their 27.1 only nets them 664 and it's only round 16 now :disappointed:
    They only earn 3 RP's now and their score went down by 144.
    They gotta earn themselves back to RSL 28.2 to get back to 20 rounds.

    "Now this player is sending help tickets into NG or blasting the forum asking "why do I earn less RP's?? 27.1 I earned 4 now I only earn 3? I have to make it to 28.2 to get 4 again? What happened to my stars? I made it further (assume they make it to 28.1) but I still have less stars than I did before why? How do I upgrade survivors and get less stars? None of this makes any sense!"

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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @DLich I was talking with @Shteevie in message yesterday and if you look at your thread players with 22 started at the same RSL as us with 23s. I asked if this was working as intended and the answer was yes. So that's why I messaged you on FB to tag me in the post that stated 20-22 were starting below us. Because they didn't. So this whole thread is based on 22 survivors starting at a lower RSL which isn't the case making this whole debate obsolete.

    If 22 and 23 both start at RSL 17 then yes of course 23 should gain higher stars. If 22 starts at RSL 15 then there is a real chance they out gain stars.


    SD Note: Dlich have you been tracking individual TG and guild TG and Radios it feels the challenge is way off on rewards. My TG is dropping fast and I buy the same stuff every 7 hours.
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    1) Yes I've been tracking them to the best of my ability
    2) If 22 starts at 17 (and that's working as intended) then the announcement should be changed no? It was changed for starting of 15 but not that it doesn't effect lvl 22's
    3) So I have to redo another chart? :angry:
    4) People should click here to watch this video No it's not a Rick Roll

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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    @Shteevie or @kaz can either confirm where level 22 toons start? This whole thread is based on 22 starting at 15. Which in this thread and others wasn't the case this week as they started at RSL17 some clarification would be great.
  • _Lily__Lily_ Member Posts: 597

    There's the answer.
    DLichanniesprinkles
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Now I'm wondering where 3 lvl 19's start at?

    Thanks @_Lily_ I never doubted you, but NG needs to update that note.

    I'll ensure any of my spreadsheets going forward are adjusted to include the fact that 3 lvl 22's should be in the tier with lvl 23's and 24's.

    My only other question is (and we won't know until next week) if any players start next weeks challenge with 3+ lvl 24's do they in fact keep on the same scale as 22 and 23... Meaning... Does having 3 lvl 24's start you at round 18 or something.

    @Kaz very important you look into that or else you'll have this same issue next week. Double check that having 3 lvl 24's will definitely still start at RSL 17

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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,530
    LOL my goodness does anyone know what is going on. So this whole thread is completely worthless. The disconnect is unreal. Come on NG not blaming Stevie or Kaz but it is def frustrating.
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Drunken said:

    LOL my goodness does anyone know what is going on. So this whole thread is completely worthless. The disconnect is unreal. Come on NG not blaming Stevie or Kaz but it is def frustrating.

    The star loss is still there but it's now from going to 2 lvl 22's to 3 lvl 22's

    The numbers will still be the same though just at a lower level (instead of it being about all lvl 22's it's about all lvl 21's)

    My concern now is next week when the whales in this game have 3 lvl 24 survivors will they get screwed? Won't know until next week. I'd be fuming if I had 3 lvl 24's next week and found out I started at RSL 18 instead of 17.

    It's very important that NG views that now since this whole debacle about lvl 22's starting at 15 or 17 was wrong.

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    OMG now I'm hearing players with 3 lvl 17's are starting at RSL 13 instead of RSL 11 as announced

    Lvl 10-14 start at 8
    Lvl 15-19 start at 11
    Lvl 20-22 start at 15
    Lvl 23+ start at 17

    Hearing lvl 22 are starting at 17
    Hearing lvl 17 is starting at 13

    WTF is going on??

    Where are lvl 24's gonna start next week? Is any of the information correct :disappointed:

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  • KratosKratos Member Posts: 345
    I listed mine in another thread but 1 L20 and the rest L19 started me at 14 instead of 11 as NG claimed.
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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    Uh oh...

    Seems (some variation of) the old formula is happening again..

    X = Highest lvl survivor
    Y = Second highest lvl survivor
    Z = Third highest lvl survivor

    Formula was

    (X+Y+Z) multiplied by .7 then divided by 3 then add 1 and remove remainder

    22+22+22 = 66; 66 x .7 = 46.2 / 3 = 15.4 + 1 = 16.4 (rounded up) to 17
    20+19+19 = 58; 58 x .7 = 40.6 / 3 = 13.53 + 1 = 14.53 (remove remainder) to 14
    23+23+23 = 69; 69 x .7 = 48.3 / 3 = 16.1 + 1 = 17.1 (remove remainder) to 17
    24+24+24 = 72; 72 x .7 = 50.4 / 3 = 16.8 + 1 = 17.8 (remove remainder) to 17

    Everything fits the old model except 3 lvl 22's... But support confirmed they'd start at 17 as intended.

    I wanna know where lvl 24's are gonna end up next week lol

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Movado said:

    With a full team of level 24 survivors, it was still a starting RSL of 17 this week.

    Council comes on tuesday morning and by wednesday morning Movado's already got 3+ lvl 24's

    Thanks Movado!!

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  • AliceRC17AliceRC17 Member Posts: 115
    edited March 2018
    All my players are 22. Two of them have 1 pink Star.I started on level 17.With 5Roundpasses my first Game started on 21/2! Now i played 3Rounds and get 238 Stars.
    Last Week I started on Round 14.With 4 Roundpasses my first game started on Level 18.
    After finished 22/2 I get 605 (!) Stars!!
    So i lost 367 Stars!
    I won't upgrade my players on Level 23 because:
    1- I have not enough good equipment
    2- I won't start on 17
    I think NG said players with 3 or more players with 23 will start in 17 Not under this!
    I'm Not Happy with this..... :-( :-( :-(
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