# Do Defensive Stance and Iron Skin/Damage Reduction stack or multiply?

Boukephalos
Member Posts:

**263**
I've heard two different stories about the interaction between DS and IS/DR.

The first is that they stack, so that damage reduction is calculated something like this:

The other is that they apply sequentially, something like this:

The How Badges Affect Survivors thread claims the first forumula is correct but the author admits that's an untested assumption.

Does anybody have data/evidence to back either one? Or a different one?

It'd be very useful to know for sure; with some toons (e.g. Morgan, who has both DS and IS), it could sometimes free up a badge slot for another use.

(Yes, I know there's an 80% cap on damage reduction and that DS has to be triggered while IS always works. These things were left out of the equations to keep them simple).

The first is that they stack, so that damage reduction is calculated something like this:

**(100 - (Iron Skin + Defensive Stance + Damage Reduction badges))% * Damage**

The other is that they apply sequentially, something like this:

**Damage * (100 - (IS + DR badges))% * (100 - DS)%**

The How Badges Affect Survivors thread claims the first forumula is correct but the author admits that's an untested assumption.

Does anybody have data/evidence to back either one? Or a different one?

It'd be very useful to know for sure; with some toons (e.g. Morgan, who has both DS and IS), it could sometimes free up a badge slot for another use.

(Yes, I know there's an 80% cap on damage reduction and that DS has to be triggered while IS always works. These things were left out of the equations to keep them simple).

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## Comments

1,3592,1391,550Example:

50% DS

28% badges + 32% iron skin = 60% damage reduction.

100-60= 40

40 * 50%= 20

20+60=80% max

Remember to use your charge abilities

263(bladgier, I did put a note at the end saying that I know all those extra details but they aren't relevant to the "which of these two is the correct basic mechanism?" question. I know those details, I don't need them spoon fed and they aren't relevant here unless they play a special role in the calculations that makes them different yet again to the two alternatives)

1,550“Increase Damage resistance by xx%”

After reading it now for a couple times it is even more clear for me that it is multiplicative. It’s like with luck when it says “improves chances that .... by xx%” and we all know how luck is “added”.

First your initial damage is calculated and then defensive stance is factored in.

Remember to use your charge abilities

2,139All you need to do is add every single damage reduction you have, such as survivor trait, gear trait, badge, then add them all together.

Then if you're in d stance add it to. If you're not in d stance then don't add it. If its over 80%, you get 80% damage reduction, if it's less, that's what you get.

That's it.

1,289100 - ( 100- sum( all IS + Dmg Reduc)) * ( 100- sum( all DS))

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1,4702,1391.Damage reduction is one thing.

2. damage reduction towards damage received calculation regards to rsl and walker damage this is 2nd thing.

This thread question was about damage reduction only. At least that's how I've seen it.

263My question was about how Iron Skin, Damage Reduction Badges and Defensive Stance combine to reduce damage. What is the algorithm when all three are in play. I really don't understand where you have gone with this or who you are arguing with or about what.

I posted two simple alternative algorithms. You think it's the first one, everybody else (so far) thinks it's the other. The others at least are clear about what they are talking about and why. You're just insisting it's the first, not saying why, and having some other argument I can't follow, quite possibly one that nobody else is having with you.

807In @bladgier 's defense, it may have been the case in the past that Defensive Stance followed that model, but something has changed with an update, or the addition of badges perhaps.

The testing I saw was more involved, but I ran my own tests (although limited) and here is what I found.

Ran tests using my Level 24 Bruiser with Defensive Stance.

Survivor Stats:

Gold Iron Skin on Armor = 15%

Iron Skin Trait = 17%

Defensive Stance Trait = 51%

If we add those together, we get 83% Damage Resistance. Exceeds the 80% DR cap. No need to even put any DR badges on this Bruiser since I have him in Overwatch if there is the threat of him being struck, right? Let's look at the numbers when I have NO Damage Resistance badges on my Bruiser:

(6 hits from a Level 26 Fattie while in Overwatch. No Criticals, No Body Shots. All Normal strikes)

Strike 1 = 479 Damage

Strike 2 = 451 Damage

Strike 3 = 403 Damage

Strike 4 = 415 Damage

Strike 5 = 406 Damage

Strike 6 = 478 Damage

Now let's look at the numbers when I put a combination of Damage Resistance badges on my Bruiser that equal to 29%:

(6 hits from a Level 26 Fattie while in Overwatch. No Criticals, No Body Shots. All Normal strikes)

Strike 1 = 251 Damage

Strike 2 = 280 Damage

Strike 3 = 270 Damage

Strike 4 = 270 Damage

Strike 5 = 286 Damage

Strike 6 = 233 Damage

[Edit: fixed a typo]

4662,139@tabernac nothing has changed in that regard since damage reduction (iron skin) was introduced.

Which is like looooooong time ago.

Only thing that has changed is more ways to add up damage reduction and the cap.

All you need to do guys is sum up, that's it. And not go over 80%.

No need to get fancy pants wise about it. Like I said, it's simple.

2,139807If we're going by your math, why would there be such a difference in the damage taken in my first scenario (at 83% DR) and my second scenario (112% DR)? If DR is capped at 80%, wouldn't the damage numbers be pretty close to each other in both scenarios?

1,289A ) NO Dmg Reduc badges

100 - ( 100 - (15+17) ) * ( 100 - 51 ) = 66.68% in Overwatch

B ) +29% Dmg Reduc badges

100 - ( 100 - (15+17+29)) * ( 100 - 51 ) = 80.89% in Overwatch, capped at 80

Which all adds up, as the original damage is around 1320:

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1,550Remember to use your charge abilities

1,550Remember to use your charge abilities

1,289contact us via email at [email protected]

2,065Pretty sweet.

3,442That’s all I got @bladgier

It’s real mathy up in this bitch at the moment lol so it’s above my understanding

1,273EDIT: **game's MATH

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1,273From 2.2 Update Notes in October 2016

Several sources of Damage Reduction now combine in such a way that total immunity to damage is no longer possible. This includes Damage Reduction from Cover, Traits, and buffs.

For example, a character taking 100 damage from an incoming attack who has Iron Skin at 10% and is benefitting from cover will now take 45 damage.

In this example, 100 times .9 [-10% for Iron Skin] times .5 [-50% for cover] = 45.

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3,402Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

Concordia

4212,065Not sure they changed defensive stance there. It was more about cover being potentially a loophole to get zero damage.

2,065263360This is the stuff that really pisses me off... We have two Survivor Traits that are related to Damage Resistance but they don't get add, they get multiplied, making both traits less effective... Can we get some clarification here? Why can we get real good info on things that matter? The in game explanation of traits are so random, vague and inaccurate that you could just delete them. Why has to be so hard to make an informed decision in this game? Oh yes, because we don't have any info and we live in the darkness...

I'm not asking for a formula... we should know what is our total damage reduction, total damage, total critic chances.... you know basic stuff.

A lvl 26 fatty should do 1063 (according to other posts here) so I'm thinking that maybe if @tabernac increases the damage resistance on his badges he may even drop a bit the damage received and therefore the formula may need some tweaks.

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