Has this happened to you? - Potential Trait Reroll token bug

2

Comments

  • ThanosOfTitanThanosOfTitan Member Posts: 236
    edited July 11
    Seems follow through comes up a lot I have done three rerolls and got it every time, a lot of my guild mates seem to get that as well also always on the left hand side
    Member of the Super Green and amazon Family Leader of Green Horns
  • ThanosOfTitanThanosOfTitan Member Posts: 236

    >opted to keep your trait after using

    >the tokens, and you try to reroll

    >that same trait again



    I trait rerolled on Morgan 3 times on the same trait—the Vigilant slot



    The first time I got a choice between Follow Through (left) and Power Strike (right). I kept the new trait on right side and got Power Strike (I wasn’t aware you get tokens back if you kept the original trait initially).



    The second two times again Follow Through appeared on the left— all 3 times I got Follow Through on the left side. Strong was on the right side for these two.



    I figured this was a bug after the second roll so contacted help in game. They said it was just bad luck and would not happen again—so I rerolled the 3rd time and it happened again.

    Same here I have done three rerolls and it’s always on the left and all three times,
    Member of the Super Green and amazon Family Leader of Green Horns
    RiverGhost
  • FluxxxFluxxx Community Manager Posts: 307
    @RiverGhost did support tell you it would not happen again? If so could you PM me a screenshot of that?

    On the whole, trait rerolls seem to be working as intended, but when you have suspicions please keep reporting it to support because it definitely helps us monitor the situation.
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,028
    edited July 11
    @jimmorrison369

    I was almost too scared to re-roll DS on Morgan the second time (after keeping the old trait).

    So what I described in the re-roll thread was what I actually did - stopping the game, clearing the cache, installing the optional update, and then doing a mission before re-rolling.

    I got two completely different traits, normal animation and all.

    Now I don't know if it had anything to do with what I did or not, but since I already read that players got different results doing something else before re-rolling while others didn't and got the same results again, I thought it couldn't hurt...
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

    Morbid Survivors are looking for you! If you are looking for a new guild, PM me.
    jimmorrison369RiverGhost
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    So my first reroll on Morgan, vigilant, I got a choice between power strike on the left and ruthless on the right.
    When I rerolled power strike today I got a choice between follow through on the left and ruthless again on the right...
    Does seem a little odd.
    RiverGhost
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    @Fluxxx I just rerolled strong on my bruiser and got the EXACT same two options as I did the first time I rerolled strong on June 29th. Are you telling me this is not a bug? What are the odds of that happening? You're saying this is chance? Those tokens are hard to obtain. Why would anyone pay for them when this bug exists? I won't anymore. I would send a ticket to support but it would be a waste of time. Things like this further discourage me from NML. People should know this is definitely a bug and unscrupulous of NG to turn a blind eye while they profit from it.
    RiverGhostCaryl
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    They were in the exact same spots, follow through on the left and vigilant on the right. I could accept it being "random" if they were in reverse order but come on! Check the log. I hope you do the right thing and return my 40 tokens. I don't care about the lost bruiser tokens.
    ladre5TCBRITO
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    Here are both screenshots for proof. Notice the weapon difference? I hope you do the right thing @Fluxxx
    TCBRITOCarylromeo
  • BWilsBWils Member Posts: 90
    Just happened to me on my, perhaps 9th re-roll on bruiser Morgan Jones....Support says sorry survivor, because there are only a 'few' traits available like trait re-roll is natural and intended. The 'odds' do not support this hypothesis...thus the link (see above complaints).

    psychwolfTCBRITO
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    Thank you @BWils
    Another case of it @Fluxxx . I think it demands attention and it's irrational to deny this bug exists.
    RiverGhost
  • RiverGhostRiverGhost Member Posts: 5
    I agree. I did 3 tries on Morgan to get the same options and the reroll tokens are rare. They should definitely change this so the traits you already rejected will not reappear because otherwise it just feels like a waste & unfair to the unlucky/bugged.

    I will not reroll again (not that I even can yet!) until they address and change this.
    psychwolfTCBRITOJankel
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,696
    @RiverGhost that would mean you were guaranteed the trait you wanted every 3rd reroll. Believe it or not NG don’t want everyone to have perfect survivors in a couple of months. It feels like we don’t get many but basically get a reroll evey 2-3 weeks. Give it a year and you’ll be rolling in reroll tokens and nothing to do with them!
  • RiverGhostRiverGhost Member Posts: 5
    > @Firekid said:
    > @RiverGhost that would mean you were guaranteed the trait you wanted every 3rd reroll. Believe it or not NG don’t want everyone to have perfect survivors in a couple of months. It feels like we don’t get many but basically get a reroll evey 2-3 weeks. Give it a year and you’ll be rolling in reroll tokens and nothing to do with them!

    It could also mean years before you even receive one trait you would like :p
    FirekidbigbeanoZette
  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 464
    edited July 20
    Sometimes I feel like some of us are guilty of forgetting that the house wins if the house controls the odds.

    Just look at the odds tables in game and you will see that results have some level of predetermined nature to them. Why do we claim the system is broken when it isn't designed to be in our favour odds wise?
    I plan for the best and I plan for the worst - Dbl Edge
    Show and prove, otherwise humble thyself
    Catch me on LINE app - Line ID: dbledgedep
    Firekid
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    > @Dbl_Edge_DEP said:
    > Sometimes I feel like some of us are guilty of forgetting that the house wins if the house controls the odds.
    >
    > Just look at the odds tables in game and you will see that results have some level of predetermined nature to them. Why do we claim the system is broken when it isn't designed to be in our favour odds wise?

    So rerolling is fixed and we're supposed to accept that? I don't see your point. It's supposed to be random. This is obviously a bug. It isn't just "the odds" giving me and many others the exact same reroll options when you reject them the first time. NG should be transparent and acknowledge this. Especially when people are paying into a faulty system.
    RiverGhost
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    I did send in a ticket anyhow and got a quick response straight from the script. "Seems to be working as intended" is not definitive. Either it is working as intended or it isn't. There is no in between. I'll be waiting on @Fluxxx to take sone accountability. After all, HE is the one who made this thread titled, "Potential Trait Reroll token bug" and yes, it has happened to me as I've stated my case.
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    It has nothing to do with me complaining because I didn't get the traits I wanted. I would've gladly accepted getting bullet dodge and defensive stance as bad break or "bad luck."
    This is about me rerolling twice on the same trait and getting the same two options in the same order. I'm certainly not the only one this has happened to. It is a bug and needs to be addressed, not so hastily dismissed.
    RiverGhost
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,028
    Okay, 2 times in a row I might accept as unlucky, but 3 times... I dunno...

    It also really discourages people from trying again - or from buying the tokens, which can't be in NG's interest.

    Now we can certainly not expect to never see the traits we have rejected ever again (and that would also not make much sense since we might want to get a trait back in the future for some reason) - but maybe at least prevent one of the rejected traits from appearing again for the next roll on the same toon/trait? That way you should at least get a fresh one every roll.

    Could still end up trying to replace DS on Morgan (after already having replaced vigilant) and get offered BD/vigilant, then next roll BD/strong, then next roll strong/vigilant... so you could still get unlucky. But it wouldn't feel as bad as rolling BD/vigilant 3 times in a row...
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

    Morbid Survivors are looking for you! If you are looking for a new guild, PM me.
    psychwolftabernacjimmorrison369
  • GovernatorGovernator Member Posts: 3,577
    I'm going with a strategy of not re-rolling with the same Survivor twice in a row. I started with Morgan, went to s Shooter, and then to Shooter Rick. I'm going back to Morgan next, but with a different trait to replace. I figure rotating might "reset" the RNG algorithm if that's the real cause of what we are seeing.
    bigbeanoJaden
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    My bruiser was the first toon I rerolled. Then Morgan 3 times. Then back to my bruiser and it still gave me the same 2 options. Rerolling Morgan in between didn't change anything. I would say, if you reroll, never reject one of the two options because that seems to trigger this bug. It may not happen every time but it is happening and HOPEFULLY will be addressed or else this game will never see another penny out of me.
  • THCrossTHCross Member Posts: 452
    edited July 21
    I know I'm the unluckiest player ever :( I accept it and JSS
    But c'mon even I deserve a break for a change
    I rerolled Morgan 3 times
    On the left all 3 were follow through
    Right were bd
    ruthless
    And luck (that I still haven't decided what to do with)
    On my 3 try I got a message connection issues (there were none on my side) the game didn't even reset
    No animation or anything
    I also suck at math but 3 times the same trait on the same position @Fluxxx -ing RNG
    Feels like



    posthuman
    psychwolfladre5
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,028
    Luck isn't so bad for Morgan. Want to get that eventually, when I have good enough DR to get to 80% without IS.

    Maybe if you pick that and re-roll another trait, you'll get punish? You definitely deserve a break!
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

    Morbid Survivors are looking for you! If you are looking for a new guild, PM me.
    psychwolf
  • RiverGhostRiverGhost Member Posts: 5
    > @THCross said:
    > I know I'm the unluckiest player ever :( I accept it and JSS
    > But c'mon even I deserve a break for a change
    > I rerolled Morgan 3 times
    > On the left all 3 were follow through


    The exact thing happened to me, follow through on the left every time for 3 rerolls. So if you are the unluckiest player, I must be too, which seems not like bad RNG but a possible bug. But either way it is depressing and makes the bad luck players weary of rerolling.

    I don’t think choosing one helps since the first time I did choose the right trait (power strike). But the follow through continued (and I got Strong on left the following 2 times).
    psychwolfromeoJaden
  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 464
    Quoted from @psychwolf :smile:
    "So rerolling is fixed and we're supposed to accept that? I don't see your point. It's supposed to be random. This is obviously a bug. It isn't just "the odds" giving me and many others the exact same reroll options when you reject them the first time. NG should be transparent and acknowledge this. Especially when people are paying into a faulty system. "

    What I'm saying is this is an online gambling / gacha game before it is a strategy game. What benefit does it bring the house to allow us foolproof outcomes? You'll do up your favourite toons and then you're done, no?

    I think it is working as intended, it's just the pool of traits allows for finite variants in the mix. Whether the trait lands on the left or the right, the outcome is the same.

    I'm saying that if you had 100 retries, you're bound to see the same pairs come up multiple times in that trial. Doing it over a few isn't a confirmation of a pattern. Ultimately, neither of us works at NG, I'm simply offering my perspective, as another player, on the matter.
    I plan for the best and I plan for the worst - Dbl Edge
    Show and prove, otherwise humble thyself
    Catch me on LINE app - Line ID: dbledgedep
    romeo
  • GrendelGrendel Member Posts: 153
    It was previously calculated that the odds of getting the same 2 traits for Morgan in the same order 2 times in a row are 1/8 * 1/7 = 1/56 or 1.79%

    The odds of getting the same trait in the same slot twice in a row for Morgan should be 1/8 = 12.5%

    The odds of getting the same trait in the same slot three times in a row for Morgan should be 1/64 = 1.6%

    These things should happen relatively rarely, but we aren't talking astronomical odds.

    (Not saying everything is working as intended or that there isn't a bug; just doing the numbers. It would be nice if NG de-randomized it a bit to prevent duplicate results.)
    psychwolfJaden
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,204
    A percentage of 1.79 is very rare. It should not be happening this often. Of course it's a bug. The programming is not right. There's an element of predetermined selections at play. Even if it's not happening all the time, it still can't be considered random.
    TCBRITORiverGhostJaden
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