In Game Math and Theory Crafting Complications



  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    @Burmeliinis I can definitely see what I can dig up on that topic. I admit, I have not been able to give as much of my attention towards it as I would have wanted since it isn't something I can implement into anything I'm working on until I've got the foundation math built in first. You're definitely right about the obstacles, however. I don't expect data collection will be the way to figure that problem out.

    @javajnkie You may be surprised by just how useful it is for you to take the time to say that : )

    @jimmorrison369 Sorry to keep you waiting, but it was for a good reason. I found more information. I figured I should break it down and understand it before I shared.
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    Well everyone... I can't believe I'm saying this but I think I've found (almost) everything. At this point, I know the facts are right in front of my face. I just have to get the structure down correctly.
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 238
    edited July 11
    I've noticed a pattern. I doubt it will help but:
    With every level increase, walker health and weapon damage and maybe all other numbers too, i couldn't check yet) are multiplied by ~1.19

    Level 29 normal walker has 5921, while 30 has 7040(1.189*5921) etc.

    A new information at least for me :)
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    edited July 11
    Oh my goodness I cannot believe I just spent my day doing this. I am FINALLY... done. This is a whole new level of burnout for me.

    (Weapon Damage)*(1 + (Lethal)) = WD

    WD * Variation = Variant

    A note on this line ^ It is safe to assume all variation values you may come across are a number between 0 and 1 that represent the % that the dmg value is allowed to vary. This will depend on the class/type of attack in question.

    WD + Variant = Max
    WD - Variant = Min

    Random Number from within the range of values between Min and Max = VWD

    (Another quick note, I'm making these "variables" up as I go, so please don't think they are important. VWD seems like 'post-variation weapon damage' to me so I just went with it).

    Now, hold on to "VWD," as we still need it. First, two new variables:

    SD = The finalized 'base damage' of your survivor, having taken into account level... multipliers that are unique to individual heroes, the class, and whatever other base value influences...

    t = The sum of multipliers we typically think of as "additional weapon damage" multipliers. Negan, Rick, Dwight, Rosita, Merle, and Aaron leader abilities then + strong if melee and + marksman if ranged.

    Okay! Next!

    Z (again just choosing random letters) = VWD + ((VWD * t) + SD)

    If this is 'not' a charge attack, move to the next step... if it IS a charge attack, incorporate charge attack bonuses here like "charging" & "reckless." Traits of the same name are additive, for those wondering, so if you have it on your armor and as a survivor trait, just add them. I believe charging also adds with reckless but I am not certain. (AKA: multiply Z by 1 + the total percent charge dmg / 100)

    By this point, it is already known if this particular attack will be a body shot or not, so if it is... then Z gets multiplied by the bodyshot multiplier (estimated to be 0.5), if not, then move to the next step. I finally have the procedure for determining a body shot fully outlined, but I am already writing too lengthy of a post, so we will leave that for another time.

    This is the very unfortunate part of this post. I have no idea what to say about this part. The next section is: 'If it wasn't a body shot, we now roll to see if it was a critical strike, and if it was, we apply a critical strike modifier.' The unfortunate part is that I had gathered a ton of research on how critical strikes are determined, and none of it fits with what I've found tonight. It is possible that I have made errors, but... it is looking very likely that the info I had gathered was either outdated or just wrong.

    For one, I don't know how this mechanic works, but the first thing to get incorporated is a level difference calculated crit chance modifier (it has been known that one exists for when walkers are attacking survivors, perhaps it is an error on my end). We've also been provided reason to believe that there is a 10% starting crit chance for all attacks (except for one of the two attacks in a warrior's charge attack which I believe has 20%... and then obviously hunter charge attack, etc.)

    The good news is that your crit chance is just the sum of all crit chance sources. If you didn't move, sure shot gets added. If you have some from your badges, added. Accurate? Added. Etc. From what I had read, I had felt very confident that the total value of lucky gets added on to this crit chance as well, with a max value of 90%... but this is not what I found. I found lucky to interact as it does with other chance traits, as a multiplier. Do the same for adding up sources of crit multiplier.

    If the enemy is stunned, congratz, you're supposed to crit. Otherwise, roll for it. If you crit, take your summation of crit dmg sources, add about 1.5 (hopefully), multiply it by whatever your "Z" is by this point.

    The next section of multipliers are called final damage multipliers and I find some of them very confusing... but nonetheless:

    Things like overwatch and retaliate reduce final dmg by a % (overwatch ~ 50%). Supposedly, this is where the featured hero bonus gets incorporated (along with in other places of course, just in terms of dmg though). Sniper Vest on armor increase to dmg while in cover is applied here. Power strike if you didn't move. There are definitely more variables that get incorporated in this step, but that is why I said this is confusing... I think there is a factor that gets included here that is based on the class of the attacker, but I need to look more into it.

    Next step: If our attacker is the class of the weekly class bonus, and that bonus is +% dmg, this is where you increase the dmg by that %.

    Next step: Add any flat damage from badges. If you landed a critical strike, add flat crit damage from badges.

    The final step: All % Reduction considerations on the target. An example: Speculated 0.5 multiplier for a ranged unit attacking an armored walker.

    Okay I have got to get some sleep. I will look more into all the stuff I didn't figure out tonight or things that are still confusing... sorry for the really long wait!


  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,408
    Amazing, however the bit about crit hits on stunned enemies is wrong. It works that way when enemies hit us when we are stunned but not vis versa. If that was the case then after our bruisers stunned the walker the first time we would stun every time after that but we don’t.
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 238
    I'm very surprised about lucky being a multiplier for CC, instead of directly added.
    NG staff(Shteevie?) had declared that it is added.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,827
    Firekid said:

    Amazing, however the bit about crit hits on stunned enemies is wrong. It works that way when enemies hit us when we are stunned but not vis versa. If that was the case then after our bruisers stunned the walker the first time we would stun every time after that but we don’t.

    That's only because of body-shots.
    There is 100% critical chance, but body-shot prevents the critical hit.
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,408
    Oh interesting, thanks Jim! I’ve always been a bit peeved that walkers get yet another advantage via that. Don’t suppose you know if that’s the case for us with hazard suit too! I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of my survivors receive a bodyshot whilst stunned?
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    @aquila Exactly! I'm also very confused by it all. The information I used is guaranteed to be in the game, but it's hard to say if its conditional. This raises questions for me.
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    @Firekid as for hazard suit... hmm... hey I think you just made me realize how that works. It's on a flag system, so it should he trackable. Haz suit is incorporated directly during the boolean calculation for body shot, though... so it would surprise me.
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    Also, quick fun fact, I'm actually relatively new to the game. I've been playing for several months, but the game has been out for much longer. I mention this bc I have a question: Can anyone think of an ability, perhaps a special weapon, maybe something walkers could do, anything... where the effect would be to forcefully move something from its position? Has this ever existed in the game? Almost like a knock-back mechanic maybe?
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,827
    No knock-back stuff
  • iSkyiiSkyi Member Posts: 19
    Eh.. fair enough.. I'm gonna take a break. It is starting to hurt my head. Body shot chances look like they take the max value b/w the one provided via level diff and the base values for the various classes (prior to reduction/increases to the chance from other modifiers). This makes a lot of sense when compared to my data since Assaults seem to have ~10x the chance to body shot (no pen, ASL diff <=2) than hunters, yet once ASL Diff >= 2, their chances to body shot become the same. Just throwing another piece of the puzzle out there.
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