Adjust Fast Walker Balance

There have been numerous reports from the player base talking of the difficulty spike which fast walkers produce. I try to keep an optimistic outlook in NML, but this is a stretch.
They are new: this is appreciated, however, the stated stats of 20% bullet dodge and 10% dodge don't seem accurate, as they appear to dodge much more often.

One major thing which comes in to question; why are we only allowed to dodge at high level with rhe requirenent of 2 or more factors, i.e. Mullet Time + Dodge / Hazard Suit + Dodge, yet FWs can dodge regardless of ASL, and not having the aforementioned abilities? Another related matter to take in to consideration: Without the prior mentioned abilities we CAN NOT dodge critical attacks, whether charged or regular attacks. So, why are FWs allowed to? The text "body shot" and "dodge" pop up when they dodge any of our attacks. Their sensory range is far and their movement is far, there seems ro be little way to overcome them without resorting to repetitive or cheap methods.

Please address this matter NG... You're better than this.
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Comments

  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,528
    It's because of the level difference

    We only need those things to dodge when the enemies are way higher level than us.

    Very low level fast walkers wouldn't be able to dodge our attacks in the same way.

    Pretty sure.
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  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 473
    I don't think level is a factor for FWs. They don't operate from the same rule book as us. As found when we stun freemen, they go for us and avoid stunned freemen, but when we are stunned they will attack us for example. The inconsistency is shocking to say the least.
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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 230
    edited October 11
    I am pretty confident the fast walkers dodge exactly as our survivors. They are not able to dodge a critical attack, but if dodge triggers, a critical hit will turn into a regular hit. Also bruisers and assaults don't have automatic critical attacks, so a charge attack from those classes can be completely dodged.

    Also I don't see them dodging a lot, at least to me the stated percentages look right.

    That said I agree with everyone else that the fast walkers are overpowered. Drop the bullet dodge to 10% as well and change to 3 move radius and it's ok.

    EDIT: the damage of those dodged attacks is interesting. I did a charge attack with stabby Rick against a fast walker, and the end damage was around 27,000 (regular damage 12,896). So it seems charge bonuses are included, like ruthless and stabby Rick's bonus, but none of the critical damage bonuses, like Destructive or Critical Damage badges.
    Dbl_Edge_DEPjimmorrison369
  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 473
    I know for a fact that they dodge shooter, scout, warrior and hunter charge attacks. Shouldn't be possible unless they have a body shot mechanic built in to themselves. Your experience seems to be the exception to the rule.

    Either way, I'm not pleased. @Fluxxx please answer the queries om this. The community would like to be enlightened on the state of play.
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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 230
    edited October 11
    I would like to see video evidence backing up that claim.

    Of course they have a body shot mechanic, like all zombies of a much higher level than your survivors.
    jimmorrison369bigbeano
  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 473
    Okay.
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  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    edited October 12
    Please leave freeman bugs out of this...

    Like @ATLAS-Z said.
    They keep dodging because we have much lvl difference.

    @Burmeliinis
    Scout charge attack is called a "brainstab". It does extra damage because of it. It is only right that damage stays even though the critical hit is converted to a normal attack. Same should go for ruthless btw.

    @Dbl_Edge_DEP
    People keep saying the walkers are able to dodge guaranteed critical hits. I don't believe that.
    Like @Burmeliinis I've experienced a guaranteed critical be reduced to normal attack.
    That in itself is proof that it works. (At least for regular dodge)( bullet dodge is yet to be proved)

    Please, somebody show a fast walker dodging or bullet dodging a hunter, shooter or scout charge attack...
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    edited October 14
    Your suggestion is mostly based on what appears to be false premises.

    The dodge difference is explained by atlas.

    Their sensory range isn't far at all.
    ****EDIT_ After closer inspection I realised you were talking about how they can get from wandering to aggressive based on your movement when you are within their walking range. I guess you do make a good point there. _EDIT****
    I've had some good time at the garden not getting noticed the entire opening of the gate.


    This DOESN'T mean I think they are balanced. But please let the arguments be correct.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,528
    > @jimmorrison369 said:
    > Please leave freeman bugs out of this...
    >
    > Like @ATLAS-Z said.
    > They keep dodging because we have much lvl difference.
    >
    > @Burmeliinis
    > Scout charge attack is called a "brainstab". It does extra damage because of it. It is only right that damage stays even though the critical hit is converted to a normal attack. Same should go for ruthless btw.
    >
    > @Dbl_Edge_DEP
    > People keep saying the walkers are able to dodge guaranteed critical hits. I don't believe that.
    > Like @Burmeliinis I've experienced a guaranteed critical be reduced to normal attack.
    > That in itself is proof that it works. (At least for regular dodge)( bullet dodge is yet to be proved)
    >
    > Please, somebody show a fast walker dodging or bullet dodging a hunter, shooter or scout charge attack...
    >
    >
    Or warrior, now that it's guaranteed
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  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,528
    The diagonal movement should be tweaked, that's my only real gripe.

    I was gonna start a thread to address it, but after digging around I found this one

    Pasted again
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  • Dbl_Edge_DEPDbl_Edge_DEP Member Posts: 473
    There doesn't appear to be a kryptonite to fast walkers. They are comparable to tanks and spikeys in that sense. Main new method of ko is probably the harpoon gun, for keeping distance and hiding behind bruisers while shooting perhaps.
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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 230


    @Burmeliinis

    Scout charge attack is called a "brainstab". It does extra damage because of it. It is only right that damage stays even though the critical hit is converted to a normal attack. Same should go for ruthless btw.



    I think you misunderstood me. My point was that Rick's semi-dodged charge did more damage than a regular attack, but less than a critical attack and far less than a critical charge attack. My Rick's critical hits deal around 40,000 damage and charge attacks around 90,000 so the fast walker's dodge removed the critical aspect and dropped the damage down to 27,000.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    edited October 14
    @Burmeliinis
    I understand you exactly.
    You charge attack.

    Normal damage, Critical damage, brainstab and ruthless will be in the formula. **Edit_Also powerstrike_*

    Now, the walker dodge.
    You keep
    Normal damage, brainstab and ruthless.

    That is higher than a normal attack and lower than a critical hit.
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,746
    I don't think that they really increase the difficulty all that much. Yes their movement is insane, the way they can move crazy distance on a diagonal and phase through multiple walkers to get to a space that you thought is safe is a little imbalanced and that needs addressing IMO. I wouldn't put them in the same category as tanks or spiked walkers though. Both can't be stunned, have a huge amount of health and cause status effects like bleeding/stun on attacking you. One blocks charge attacks, the other completely incapacitates you. Not to mention that a spiked will completely end the mission if it takes one of your survivors into struggle.

    The dodge aspect can be a little annoying but in the end you can stun them and they have relatively low health. It was a tank spawning in dumpsite that really ramped up the difficulty, not the fast walkers. I'd also be interested to see a clip of a completely dodged scout/shooter/hunter/warrior charge attack. I saw assault/bruiser charges get completely dodged but had multiple moments where a scout charge did normal damage only so I think that part is working as intended.

    I agree they do need to be balanced though before I see them making their way into the weekly challenge. 20% is too high and the movement needs toning down.
    jimmorrison369ATLAS-Z
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