DRAGON'S TONGUE - Discussion



I've been looking over the gameplay footage of the DT and I've been having some growing concerns.

The good:
Excellent traits
Reach
2-point charge attack
Big area charge attack




The bad:
No reach on charge attack
Only one attack on charge
Power strike not useful on most charge due to no reach




I think we should discuss, this charge area looks cool, but I think it's going to be the reason this weapon (and warriors) get shelved by most top players.

Maybe there's some tweaking that can be done before players start unlocking the weapon?
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Aussom_Possum
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Comments

  • AchillesVAchillesV Member Posts: 106
    I do think the charge attack needs to either still be 2 attacks with only the first one being the donut, or a single 2-range donut. As it is there *might* be a time when it does something you otherwise can't do, but for most missions it's not a difference maker.
    TCBRITORenopwns
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    Personally, I think I'd rather sacrifice the area and keep the range on charge attacks?
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    echonapromeo
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    edited October 15
    I'd say the good far outweigh the bad but that's just me. I didn't realise the charge attack was a single attack or that it charged up in two kills. I think the fact that you can overwatch from safety, attack with PS and then move back using tactical then unleash a pretty powerful charge will make up for any drawbacks. You can still get a use from PS on a charge, you would just have to position yourself so that you are in range and use a bruiser to take any hits.

    I don't think that it will be enough to see warriors dominating the challenge, similarly I don't see hunters/shooters dominating the challenge when Alpha is released but it should bridge the gap a lot.
    ShadowWalkerimacharlie
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    edited October 15
    I think there's so much potential, but that charge attack is a swing and a miss imo. (Probably due to the short range :smiley: )

    Keep the range and have it do a standard warrior charge attack.

    Or sacrifice the secondary attack after charge in order to keep the weapon at only two charge points... that seems fair.
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  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    edited October 15
    On any warrior weapon you aren't going to safely get a full use out of a PS charge attack, it's impossible unless you're taking out auto spawns from body piles. I was more thinking if you have 1 tank walker walking towards you and then you wanted to get the most from your charge.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    > @WellyLuga said:
    > On any warrior weapon you aren't going to safely get a full use out of a PS charge attack, it's impossible unless you're taking out auto spawns from body piles. I was more thinking if you have 1 tank walker walking towards you and then you wanted to get the most from your charge.

    You'd need to let your bruiser take a hit every time you did this buddy... Fade and poke from range won't work for the charge attack. You're gonna need to kiss him up close.
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  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    edited October 15
    ATLAS-Z said:

    > @WellyLuga said:

    > On any warrior weapon you aren't going to safely get a full use out of a PS charge attack, it's impossible unless you're taking out auto spawns from body piles. I was more thinking if you have 1 tank walker walking towards you and then you wanted to get the most from your charge.



    You'd need to let your bruiser take a hit every time you did this buddy... Fade and poke from range won't work for the charge attack. You're gonna need to kiss him up close.

    Yep, but that's no different than the way it is now for warriors or a non-spear scout. Just saying there is a way to get PS to trigger on the charge if you really needed it. With gold destructive, ruthless, enough solid badges and maybe a SRick lead the charge on this weapon is going to wipe out most normal walkers without PS anyway.
  • DeadheadsDeadheads Member Posts: 619
    So is the thought for everyone is to use this on a purely offensive warrior? Have strong/ruthless/PS (possibly vigilant) as traits and 3 Damage/3 CD (possibly 1 CC) badges? Is Jesus the likely target for this?
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    I rolled Jesus and got strong and FT in place of retaliate and bullet dodge. I would rather have ruthless but he is good enough for now. I happen to have a non hero warrior with strong, ruthless, lucky, vigilant and FT who I am hoping to use a little more with this weapon. Both are full damage build badge wise, Jesus has a CC and the other is 3D/CD :smile:
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    @WellyLuga I gotta say, I love your optimism.

    And I'm certainly gonna give it a go, but... I'm not overly optimistic myself TBH.
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  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    edited October 15
    Haha yeah I do sit on the good side of the optimistic/pessimistic scale. Let's be honest, it can't make warriors any worse!
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 272
    Wait it's only 2 charge points? This weapon keeps getting better. I don't get the concern over it at all. It's basically a Tactical Spear for warriors, which I think is the best weapon for a scout. I have no problem with only one attack for the charged attack especially since Warriors have a guaranteed critical hit.
    WellyLuga
  • TWDaddictionTWDaddiction Member Posts: 196
    edited October 15
    So I’m thinking the “guaranteed critical hit” came out before the update that gave warriors a guaranteed critical hit anyways in charge attack right?

    I feel like that was one of the main pros to this weapon and they made it known by writing that, but then the update basically made it a normal warrior attack (minus getting a second attack now).

    They need to change something for sure imo. It’s almost like the harpoon now. AWESOME traits and usage, but then the charge attack has to be used under very specific circumstances. This does nothing to help warriors hitting the bench early imo

    Just like harpoon. Cool weapon, average usage
    ATLAS-ZAchillesV
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    @TWDaddiction The harpoon gun being situational I get, since it's tactical to disable one target. What's so specific about a whirlwind attack? You can just use it whenever there are a few walkers bunched :smiley:
    TWDaddiction
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 272
    > @Deadheads said:
    > So is the thought for everyone is to use this on a purely offensive warrior? Have strong/ruthless/PS (possibly vigilant) as traits and 3 Damage/3 CD (possibly 1 CC) badges? Is Jesus the likely target for this?

    Definitely Jesus, and don't laugh at me but I am considering Jerry...

    Yes his leader LT completely sucks, but it kind of works for a glass cannon. Obviously when you have a glass cannon you try to avoid taking damage, but hey shit happens sometimes. His LT can provide some sort of insurance, although on really high levels he will still get into instant struggle even if his ability does activate. He also has strength and Ruthless already.

    Ok you can laugh now...
    Firekid
  • DeadheadsDeadheads Member Posts: 619

    > @Deadheads said:

    > So is the thought for everyone is to use this on a purely offensive warrior? Have strong/ruthless/PS (possibly vigilant) as traits and 3 Damage/3 CD (possibly 1 CC) badges? Is Jesus the likely target for this?



    Definitely Jesus, and don't laugh at me but I am considering Jerry...



    Yes his leader LT completely sucks, but it kind of works for a glass cannon. Obviously when you have a glass cannon you try to avoid taking damage, but hey shit happens sometimes. His LT can provide some sort of insurance, although on really high levels he will still get into instant struggle even if his ability does activate. He also has strength and Ruthless already.



    Ok you can laugh now...

    I wont completely laugh at that... well, maybe a little :smile: isn't Jesus' base hero damage boost pretty significant though? I think Michonne's is the highest, around 40%, and those tables are somewhere, but does anyone know how Jesus and Jerry damage compare? Guess I'm going for max damage... if they're close, Jerry might not be a horrible idea.
    ShadowWalker
  • TWDaddictionTWDaddiction Member Posts: 196
    > @WellyLuga said:
    > @TWDaddiction The harpoon gun being situational I get, since it's tactical to disable one target. What's so specific about a whirlwind attack? You can just use it whenever there are a few walkers bunched :smiley:

    Because of the way the attack is laid out (and only being one space away), the walkers would literally have to be setup perfectly to hit more then 3 or so, and at that point, gold arc would be the same point but you’d get 2 attacks instead of one. I get sometimes it may end up better (as in it’s a circle swarm set up perfectly so you can attack 4 or 5 instead), but id still personally take the double attack. Especially at high rsl when you can’t quite kill them. Imagine leaving a nice swarm of 5 almost dead walkers around you lol

    Am I missing something there?
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,821
    Yeah the single attack sucks a little, as nothing like almost killing 3 walkers on the first hit and charging straight back up again on the second. It’s one way of them actually being useful at high level!
    ShadowWalker
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    I get what you're saying about the double attack, I still think the charge will be useful often and won't really rely on very specific circumstances. Obviously it's better to hit 7-8 at once to maximize the charge but it shouldn't be that uncommon to be able to attack 3-5. Plus it's only the first attack that is the guaranteed crit, more often than not the 2nd attack is going to result in a body shot.

    The way it functions in every way other than a charge attack is what makes up for the lack of a 2nd attack.
    ShadowWalker
  • DeadheadsDeadheads Member Posts: 619
    edited October 15
    My guess is basically you're getting a 'free' 4th trait on charge attacks with this. normal weapons you need gold razor/arc but with this you get gold razor/destructive with the whirlwind attack. so theoretically the hope would be 1 whirlwind attack with this would do more damage than 2 attacks with a regular weapon.... plus with only 2 charge points you'd get more whirlwind attacks vs a reg 3 charge warrior weapon.
    WellyLugaShadowWalker
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 248
    > @Deadheads said:
    > (Quote)
    > I wont completely laugh at that... well, maybe a little :smile: isn't Jesus' base hero damage boost pretty significant though? I think Michonne's is the highest, around 40%, and those tables are somewhere, but does anyone know how Jesus and Jerry damage compare? Guess I'm going for max damage... if they're close, Jerry might not be a horrible idea.

    Jesus 30% dmg & 30 % health
    Jerry 10% dmg & 30% health
    Michonne 30% dmg & 15% health

    Note that those only boost the base dmg and health (not weapon or armor) so effect is much smaller than the percentages make it appear.

    And obviously Jesus also has the damage boosting LT.
    ShadowWalker
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    Let's try a different angle, @WellyLuga optimism is like a soggy log when I'm trying to start a fire haha...

    If the Dragon Tongue charge attack functioned like this:

    Bonus Attack with guaranteed Critical

    Do you not think it would be far superior??

    Ditch whirlwind and keep the range.
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    scooners
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,989
    How about one charged attack that does double the damage on top of every badges traits etc?
    Or 2 attacks both critical only with this weapon?
    TWDaddictionxbamfx
  • MojakuMojaku Member Posts: 123
    Hi all,

    Maybe the best option is Michonne? She has a % of earning an action point that could be used to move around, can it be interesting to eliminate dodge or retaliate and get lucky?

    Maybe this is a good strategy?
    ShadowWalker
  • TWDaddictionTWDaddiction Member Posts: 196
    I personally like two critical attacks. It’s gotta be something that gives it an edge. To me, the cool edge was giving it extra reach like the spear, but then the charge attack takes that away...
    ATLAS-Z
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,806
    edited October 15
    Yeah the charge attack is the drawback and how they have decided to balance it. 2 charges needed kind of dampens it though, it can be tough to get a warrior fully charged at high level needing 3.

    The double crit charge would be sweet though, it would put it in the same league as the winter bow. That weapon is loaded with extras like the tactical part and 100% silence with none of the drawbacks other event weapons have had.
    ATLAS-ZKratosxbamfx
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,712
    How's it going early birds?
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    Jenngxbamfx
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 488
    A few in my guild have unlocked and ran on a test drive, looks good but scavenger missions are not a great test..especially for the 360 hit
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