Doubling Cheat for GW

1356

Comments

  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,060
    @Happygilmour11 in your calculation you have 4 extra attacks in 1 high mission, I know for a fact that we didn’t have 4 extra attacks after clearing all the sectors we did, so you’ll have to remove 1 sector complete to on bonus and the lowest one we could leave would be 3D worth 100vp. So we would actually have been worse off.
    Just saying it’s not as clear cut as you are making out at the moment. (Granted it will be game be breaking once the maps are named which I’ve never been a fan of happening anyway).
    I still wouldn’t be upset if they stopped it or if it continued we will play our way and we will still win some and lose some and have fun doing it!
    xbamfxTCBRITO
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    @Firekid I know doubling is a really hard concept to understand for some. I'll try to make it clearer

    Step 1) 4 people save 1 attack each
    Step 2) While a top player is clearing out a level and finds a map that everyone can do, they inform the team to come in
    Step 3) Everyone joins and finishes the easy high level map

    Give it a try your next war. For some people doing actual makes more sense, than words

    A couple things to also note:

    You don't need to know the names of the maps. There is no scavenging, since your top player is already clearing out the sector.
    Also if you're saying that your team runs a completely efficient ship and doesn't have any free attacks at the end, then bravo sir. You have a perfect team.

    ignasBurmeliinisSCBMA
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,060
    Oh I understand how it works and will be discussing it with the guild soon, just feel that 9 out of 10 times it’s better to use you’re extra attacks to guarantee clearing 4F and 5E. The best time to use it will be if it’s a choice of doubling up or going back to 1B. Certainly adds another level of strategy.
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    Firekid said:

    Oh I understand how it works and will be discussing it with the guild soon, just feel that 9 out of 10 times it’s better to use you’re extra attacks to guarantee clearing 4F and 5E. The best time to use it will be if it’s a choice of doubling up or going back to 1B. Certainly adds another level of strategy.

    If you feel that it's 9 out of 10 not to use it, then you definitely don't understand it...
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,082
    edited April 2020
    I've been thinking about this and I feel like this is not really an exploit. The extra points you get from doubling are easily offset by the node reward, so it only makes sense to double missions if you are left with spare swords. And obviously in the middle of the war (or even in the late stages) it's quite risky to not leave any swords, in case you fail on one of those final, hard, missions. And it's not like you can wait with the doubling to the end, you need to do it right away when you find one of those easy missions.

    To take my example from before. You have a good team which can do up to lvl 41 without too much trouble, but going further is too risky to be worth it. So you start at Nightmare (1-C), do the whole C line, do the whole D line, as well as 3-E and 4-E. You also do one bonus map. That's 105 maps and 3741 points.

    So what to do with the remaining 20 swords?

    Do also 1-B and 2-B, which are low level missions. But clearing both nodes boosts your points to 4216. This requires that you can only lose 2 missions in total.

    So if you instead opt for doubling, you spend the 9 swords required for 2-B on doubling some lvl 41 missions, worth 44 points instead of the 17-20 points of the 2-B node. Let's say the gain is 25 points per mission. So 9 * 25 = 225 points. Which is less than what you get for completing 2-B, 230 points.

    So to really benefit of this strategy, you perfectly need to anticipate how many overflow attacks you will have in the war. More realistically, you need to set up a game plan at the start of the battle about which nodes to complete, then keep communicating so the game master knows how many missions have failed and then make the decision to double or not (so in this example, if 3 or more missions have failed when a doubling opportunity arises). Just blindly doubling when an easy high level mission pops up might actually result in less points overall.

    EDIT: I messed up the calculations by comparing the extra points of doubling vs the total points of not doubling.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    TJCartJayZTCBRITO
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,740

    I've been thinking about this and I feel like this is not really an exploit. The extra points you get from doubling are easily offset by the node reward, so it only makes sense to double missions if you are left with spare swords. And obviously in the middle of the war (or even in the late stages) it's quite risky to not leave any swords, in case you fail on one of those final, hard, missions. And it's not like you can wait with the doubling to the end, you need to do it right away when you find one of those easy missions.

    To take my example from before. You have a good team which can do up to lvl 41 without too much trouble, but going further is too risky to be worth it. So you start at Nightmare (1-C), do the whole C line, do the whole D line, as well as 3-E and 4-E. You also do one bonus map. That's 105 maps and 3741 points.

    So what to do with the remaining 20 swords?

    Do also 1-B and 2-B, which are low level missions. But clearing both nodes boosts your points to 4216. This requires that you can only lose 2 missions in total.

    So if you instead opt for doubling, you spend the 9 swords required for 2-B on doubling some lvl 41 missions, worth 44 points instead of the 17-20 points of the 2-B node. Let's say the gain is 25 points per mission. So 9 * 25 = 225 points. Which is less than what you get for completing 2-B, 230 points.

    So to really benefit of this strategy, you perfectly need to anticipate how many overflow attacks you will have in the war. More realistically, you need to set up a game plan at the start of the battle about which nodes to complete, then keep communicating so the game master knows how many missions have failed and then make the decision to double or not (so in this example, if 3 or more missions have failed when a doubling opportunity arises). Just blindly doubling when an easy high level mission pops up might actually result in less points overall.


    Good points. Honestly, now that this doubling strategy is out there, I'd be interested to see if it meaningfully changes the standings of the top 10-15 guilds by the end of the next war/season. My guess is that you are correct and not much will change and the top 5 guilds will still be the top 5 guilds because the gains of doubling may be offset by the loss in completed sectors so final scores won't change that much, and it'll come down to which guild has better players.
    Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild.
    Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.

    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSePrANMyf_S_YKJyfJodg
    Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium
    TCBRITOavelardezxbamfx
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55

    I've been thinking about this and I feel like this is not really an exploit. The extra points you get from doubling are easily offset by the node reward, so it only makes sense to double missions if you are left with spare swords. And obviously in the middle of the war (or even in the late stages) it's quite risky to not leave any swords, in case you fail on one of those final, hard, missions. And it's not like you can wait with the doubling to the end, you need to do it right away when you find one of those easy missions.

    To take my example from before. You have a good team which can do up to lvl 41 without too much trouble, but going further is too risky to be worth it. So you start at Nightmare (1-C), do the whole C line, do the whole D line, as well as 3-E and 4-E. You also do one bonus map. That's 105 maps and 3741 points.

    So what to do with the remaining 20 swords?

    Do also 1-B and 2-B, which are low level missions. But clearing both nodes boosts your points to 4216. This requires that you can only lose 2 missions in total.

    So if you instead opt for doubling, you spend the 9 swords required for 2-B on doubling some lvl 41 missions, worth 44 points instead of the 17-20 points of the 2-B node. Let's say the gain is 25 points per mission. So 9 * 25 = 225 points. Which is less than what you get for completing 2-B, 230 points.

    So to really benefit of this strategy, you perfectly need to anticipate how many overflow attacks you will have in the war. More realistically, you need to set up a game plan at the start of the battle about which nodes to complete, then keep communicating so the game master knows how many missions have failed and then make the decision to double or not (so in this example, if 3 or more missions have failed when a doubling opportunity arises). Just blindly doubling when an easy high level mission pops up might actually result in less points overall.


    Math is wrong

    9 attacks doubling at 44 per attack is = 396 vs finishing 2-B is 230

    Also if you used those 20 extra attacks doubling the whole way:

    Lets say avg 38 per doubling attack while the team is completing regular levels.

    20 attacks 38 = 760

    Total from 1B and 2B = 475

    Net gain 285

    Doubling completely takes out the need of the B track.


    miori199373
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 386
    Of course the mat is wrong.

    If you want to close 1b+2b+3b you need to use 27 swords and you gain 705 points

    If 4 people will double 4e sectors. They will use 24 swords and you gain 936 points

    So the difference is 231 points and you still keep 3 swords.
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,082
    You're right of course. Then it's much more straight forward and always worth it.

    Does feel like an exploit now.

    I'll edit my post a little bit.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    SCBMA
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,082
    But you still lose out on the reward points, yes?
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55

    But you still lose out on the reward points, yes?

    You keep reward points. Enjoy my friend
    SCBMA
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,208

    Billbam said:

    Those who do it think its great those who dont hate it....get over it it is in the game and NG approved.

    I can't discuss it on a forum? Seems like Fluxx is discussing with his team.


    We don't consider this cheating or exploiting, so no worries about any action being taken against you if you played this way. However, we will discuss whether or not we keep it working like this in the future, I can't say that it will stay this way.
    Please show me were I said we could not discuss it? I just think it is loser whining since dog piling IS allowed.
    image
    15 Guilds cover all skill levels & game motivations
    Entry level Boot Camp & Badge System 101 Chat
    Our top 3 Global Guilds form a team of 60 Top 20 in Elite Mid 20 in Recon and Bottom 20 in Hellcats
    Private Message Billbam or Red111 to reserve your spot!

    TCBRITO
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    Billbam said:

    Billbam said:

    Those who do it think its great those who dont hate it....get over it it is in the game and NG approved.

    I can't discuss it on a forum? Seems like Fluxx is discussing with his team.


    We don't consider this cheating or exploiting, so no worries about any action being taken against you if you played this way. However, we will discuss whether or not we keep it working like this in the future, I can't say that it will stay this way.
    Please show me were I said we could not discuss it? I just think it is loser whining since dog piling IS allowed.
    HDD was allowed....until it wasn't. We're name calling now? Big man. I won't go down to your level though
    BillbamEngAamie
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,336
    edited April 2020
    Great read.
    romeo
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412

    But you still lose out on the reward points, yes?

    You still gain the individual RP (10/attack), but of course you're missing out on the sector clear RP bonuses which may be offset if the doubling strategy led you to a win whereas you wouldn't have won otherwise.
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,336
    edited April 2020
    great read.
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    edited April 2020
    ignas said:

    Of course the mat is wrong.

    If you want to close 1b+2b+3b you need to use 27 swords and you gain 705 points

    If 4 people will double 4e sectors. They will use 24 swords and you gain 936 points

    So the difference is 231 points and you still keep 3 swords.

    So I assume we're posing this argument for a very specific group of similarly abled players at that range, yes? Otherwise, there's no guarantee that everyone can simply beat all sectors in 4E with ease.

    I thought the earlier argument was positing that a higher ability player comes across an easy "Kill All" map and calls out for all players to double up which makes the benefit much more situational and risky (not all sectors are guaranteed a "Kill All" or even "Get to the Exit" map).

    Also, it's not a scalable strategy, since the VP distributions are different at lower levels. If you had a team of players that couldn't get much past B line and used a 4 bonus / 11 sector strategy, then they wouldn't get any benefit from skipping A (45 attacks for 1039VP) to do additional B enemy survivor missions (45 attacks x 20 VP = 900VP) (chosen because the difficulty scaling is relatively negligible in these missions).

    Still, for teams in a specific range, it could have significant benefits. It's just not a one size fits all strategy.
    avelardezFirekidJayZ
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    TJCart said:

    ignas said:

    Of course the mat is wrong.

    If you want to close 1b+2b+3b you need to use 27 swords and you gain 705 points

    If 4 people will double 4e sectors. They will use 24 swords and you gain 936 points

    So the difference is 231 points and you still keep 3 swords.

    So I assume we're posing this argument for a very specific group of similarly abled players at that range, yes? Otherwise, there's no guarantee that everyone can simply beat all sectors in 4E with ease.

    I thought the earlier argument was positing that a higher ability player comes across an easy "Kill All" map and calls out for all players to double up which makes the benefit much more situational and risky (not all sectors are guaranteed a "Kill All" or even "Get to the Exit" map).

    Also, it's not a scalable strategy, since the VP distributions are different at lower levels. If you had a team of players that couldn't get much past B line and used a 4 bonus / 11 sector strategy, then they wouldn't get any benefit from skipping A (45 attacks for 1039VP) to do additional B enemy survivor missions (45 attacks x 20 VP = 900VP) (chosen because the difficulty scaling is relatively negligible in these missions).

    Still, for teams in a specific range, it could have significant benefits. It's just not a one size fits all strategy.
    This isn't a one trick pony. There's many ways to do it. Funny how you keep coming up with situations where it won't work. How about moving forward and talking about situations where it will work. Which is plentiful.

    The range of players this will help are those that can reach 36+. Let's be honest, this is a forum of people that love the game. The majority is at that level and above.

  • maku11maku11 Member Posts: 60
    I was not aware of this strategy.
    Thanks for bringing it to light. @Happygilmour11
    Happygilmour11SCBMA
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412
    edited April 2020

    Funny how you keep coming up with situations where it won't work.

    Huh? What other situations have I come up with where it work won't work?

    The range of players this will help are those that can reach 36+. Let's be honest, this is a forum of people that love the game. The majority is at that level and above.

    Well that's quite a generalization, but yeah just because I can hit base difficulty+8/9 doesn't mean that everyone in my guild can. There's even some I have rated at +2/3, while others can hit around +11.

    I don't know where you get off with your attitude unless you're trying to role play some Adam Sandler persona reflecting your forum name, but it's quite rude. For my part and in my post I was analyzing how this could help guilds not mentioned otherwise and more applicable to me. If I'm so dense that I'm missing how, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I had written in response to @ignas who had given an example where it was quite effective which I acknowledged and said it could have "significant benefits" for the right teams.

    I love going through all these little strategies, and find the math and data behind the game as interesting as playing it. However, if you want to be a jerk about it you should go find a YouTube comments section to troll.

    Good day to you, sir.

    TCBRITOrogueDSJayZromeo
  • rogueDSrogueDS Member Posts: 616
    Cant beat a dead horse as they say. I am out of here. Good day ladies and gents have a happy and safe weekend.
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    TJCart said:

    Funny how you keep coming up with situations where it won't work.

    Huh? What other situations have I come up with where it work won't work?

    The range of players this will help are those that can reach 36+. Let's be honest, this is a forum of people that love the game. The majority is at that level and above.

    Well that's quite a generalization, but yeah just because I can hit base difficulty+8/9 doesn't mean that everyone in my guild can. There's even some I have rated at +2/3, while others can hit around +11.

    I don't know where you get off with your attitude unless you're trying to role play some Adam Sandler persona reflecting your forum name, but it's quite rude. For my part and in my post I was analyzing how this could help guilds not mentioned otherwise and more applicable to me. If I'm so dense that I'm missing how, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I had written in response to @ignas who had given an example where it was quite effective which I acknowledged and said it could have "significant benefits" for the right teams.

    I love going through all these little strategies, and find the math and data behind the game as interesting as playing it. However, if you want to be a jerk about it you should go find a YouTube comments section to troll.

    Good day to you, sir.

    It's funny how my attitude is bad, when i have been constantly attacked in this thread. It's the internet i understand it will happen especially from people who don't want everyone to use this strategy. I'm not going to cry about it. I am active in NML, taking part in Nation war, and i just found out that guilds have been using this for a long time, but keeping it close to the vest. I understand, this strategy greatly improves your chances at a win... But i believe it's only fair for everyone to know about it and have an even playing field. Over 1600 people have read this thread so the info is out. My job's done

    I'm sorry if i mistook your post for another person trying to automatically shit on such an easy exploit/strategy.

    Take care
    maku11TJCartADPaqromeo
  • TJCartTJCart Member Posts: 412

    I'm sorry if i mistook your post for another person trying to automatically shit on such an easy exploit/strategy.

    Take care

    Thank you. I appreciate the civility. I am sorry that you had a rough go of it with the response you had to bringing this up and your opinions of it as well.

    Yes, it is the internet and you get all types of attitudes, but there's no need let bad ones get to you and to respond in kind during a rational conversation for anyone.

    (By the way, since it can be hard to tell in written response, I'm being sincere, not sarcastic.)
    romeo
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    TJCart said:

    I'm sorry if i mistook your post for another person trying to automatically shit on such an easy exploit/strategy.

    Take care

    Thank you. I appreciate the civility. I am sorry that you had a rough go of it with the response you had to bringing this up and your opinions of it as well.

    Yes, it is the internet and you get all types of attitudes, but there's no need let bad ones get to you and to respond in kind during a rational conversation for anyone.

    (By the way, since it can be hard to tell in written response, I'm being sincere, not sarcastic.)
    True words my friend. Take care of your self and all the best.
    romeo
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    Lmao you did not let any cat out of the bag @Happygilmour11 it specifically has been stated over a year ago that all player who play any GW map if they win the map they will be rewarded both points and RPs. If I’m not mistaken it even says it in the update thread as well from back when beta was arriving. This is not “News” to many as you may believe. Perhaps you were oblivious to it and maybe like 10-15% of players who don’t read the forums or FB pages but the fact still remains that this type of play has been around for OVER a year LOL. I know ground breaking, earth shattering knowledge being spit on this thread about a cheat mode. Perhaps you should look at people being able to place level 30 weapons and gear on a level 15 survivor? You know those player who can play even lower RSL than me and still get the same points even tho they have stronger gear and flat badges LOL now there is a glitch in the matrix, and don’t forget about the FLIGHT Club ✈️ 😆😆😆😆😆
    TCBRITOavelardezBurmeliinisromeo
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    edited April 2020
    xbamfx said:

    Lmao you did not let any cat out of the bag @Happygilmour11 it specifically has been stated over a year ago that all player who play any GW map if they win the map they will be rewarded both points and RPs. If I’m not mistaken it even says it in the update thread as well from back when beta was arriving. This is not “News” to many as you may believe. Perhaps you were oblivious to it and maybe like 10-15% of players who don’t read the forums or FB pages but the fact still remains that this type of play has been around for OVER a year LOL. I know ground breaking, earth shattering knowledge being spit on this thread about a cheat mode. Perhaps you should look at people being able to place level 30 weapons and gear on a level 15 survivor? You know those player who can play even lower RSL than me and still get the same points even tho they have stronger gear and flat badges LOL now there is a glitch in the matrix, and don’t forget about the FLIGHT Club ✈️ 😆😆😆😆😆

    Here we go again. LOL

    1) Did it also say it the notes - If 5 people go in on the same mission at the same time, you can get 5x the points from one mission? LOL

    2) Just because you've been doing it for a year, doesn't mean that everyone has known about it.

    3) Why hasn't anyone talked about a strategy that can get you some serious extra points during GW, on a board for strategies?

    4) Fluxx would have just said, it's an accepted strategy and be done with it. But they're discussing whether it stays or not.


    My team never heard of this and we're a top 30 team. There's a bunch of teams, and people on this board hearing about this for the first time. So guess what, for us the cat IS out of the bag.
    BurmeliinisSCBMAromeo
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    > @Happygilmour11 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Here we go again. LOL
    >
    > 1) Just because you've been doing it for a year, doesn't mean that everyone has known about it.
    >
    > 2) Why hasn't anyone talked about a strategy that can get you some serious extra points during GW, on a board for strategies?
    >
    > 3) Fluxx would have just said, it's an accepted strategy and be done with it. But they're discussing whether it stays or not.
    >
    > My team never heard of this and we're a top 30 team. There's a bunch of teams, and people on this board hearing about this for the first time. So guess what, for us the cat IS out of the bag.

    1. If everyone doesn’t know about it that’s their fault.

    2. No one discusses strategies for obvious reasons. TO WIN

    3. The only reason they “may” plan to change it is because they will be labeling maps, which will no doubt do what? You guessed it Identify all the EASY maps as you say.

    Finally, as I said earlier you can be a top 30 team or top 10 whatever, was that the same a year ago? Probably not. Doesn’t matter. The strategy had to be changed because NG changed the format but you always have some group trying to dictate how people play when time after time we deal with bugs etc that warrant more time and dedication vs making it how “you feel” the game should be played. Our team lost to a team who had a player banned for exploit. I’d rather NG focus efforts on that than worry about a team actually coordinating their attacks. That’s my opinion don’t care if you agree as I clearly disagree with your statements but plz stop with the whole Im under attack bullshit. This entire thread has been click bait af with a stupid title calling something a cheat that was DEBUNKED by NG admins 😆 gather the facts next time before you call something an exploit is all Im saying..... #FakeNews
    TCBRITO
  • Happygilmour11Happygilmour11 Member Posts: 55
    Typical
    xbamfx said:

    > @Happygilmour11 said:

    > (Quote)

    > Here we go again. LOL

    >

    > 1) Just because you've been doing it for a year, doesn't mean that everyone has known about it.

    >

    > 2) Why hasn't anyone talked about a strategy that can get you some serious extra points during GW, on a board for strategies?

    >

    > 3) Fluxx would have just said, it's an accepted strategy and be done with it. But they're discussing whether it stays or not.

    >

    > My team never heard of this and we're a top 30 team. There's a bunch of teams, and people on this board hearing about this for the first time. So guess what, for us the cat IS out of the bag.



    1. If everyone doesn’t know about it that’s their fault.



    2. No one discusses strategies for obvious reasons. TO WIN



    3. The only reason they “may” plan to change it is because they will be labeling maps, which will no doubt do what? You guessed it Identify all the EASY maps as you say.



    Finally, as I said earlier you can be a top 30 team or top 10 whatever, was that the same a year ago? Probably not. Doesn’t matter. The strategy had to be changed because NG changed the format but you always have some group trying to dictate how people play when time after time we deal with bugs etc that warrant more time and dedication vs making it how “you feel” the game should be played. Our team lost to a team who had a player banned for exploit. I’d rather NG focus efforts on that than worry about a team actually coordinating their attacks. That’s my opinion don’t care if you agree as I clearly disagree with your statements but plz stop with the whole Im under attack bullshit. This entire thread has been click bait af with a stupid title calling something a cheat that was DEBUNKED by NG admins 😆 gather the facts next time before you call something an exploit is all Im saying..... #FakeNews

    There it is folks. Thanks for proving my point. Keeping this little exploit a secret huh. Lol

    2. No one discusses strategies for obvious reasons. TO WIN
    rogueDSSCBMATCBRITO
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    I mean it is competitive yeah? Why would i reveal my team strategy to help another team I may end up playing? Lmao what the point of calling it Guild Wars then? You must be new to NML lmao this is not the same as say challenge vids or distance vids. Also it’s not a god damn exploit lol NG literally let’s you play the map!!!! Stop the misinforming @Fluxxx has already stated this 😆😆 i mean it’s clear at this point your just seeking Attention and got your ass bust in GW battle mwuahahaaha
    rogueDSTCBRITO
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    Which team beat your ass @Happygilmour11 ill hunt them and kill them for you using my high speed exploits from China 😆 I’ll bring some corona for thirst as well.
    rogueDSgrzechExpavelardezSCBMATCBRITO
This discussion has been closed.