Player petition to NG to reconsider the pace/cost of GW

JayZ

Dear @Fluxxx and NG,

This is a petition from the guilds and guild leaders below to reconsider the pace and cost of GW. While many players love the new version and the amount of time put into the design, there are aspects of the mode that quickly burn out a player.

While we may all never agree on the perfect solution, there are two main problems we’d like to raise.

1. Pace - Having four weeks of battles and only a one week break in between is too much for most of us. Because of the amount of coordination needed to succeed, GW feels like a full-time job on battle days. We strongly encourage NG to reconsider the amount of time between wars and seasons.

2. Cost - GW has motivated players, and with that motivation comes a desire to succeed at all costs and not let the team down. The Tools introduced a new tactical advantage in GW, but the cost of staying competitive is simply too high for a lot of players and impossible for f2p players. Healing costs, Tool costs, etc. at its current levels are turning many players off from the game mode, especially when GW runs 4 out of every 5 weeks.

We hope you agree these are issues, and would like to engage in a productive discussion on how to best remedy them.

Signed,
- The Mavericks Guild Family (16 guilds)
- The Wild Walking Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The DTP Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Eh Guild Family (10 guilds)
- The DoomSquad Family (15 guilds)
- The Watch Tower Guild Family (22 guilds)
- The Red Machine Guild Family (8 guilds)
- The GK Crew Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The KillerFüchse Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The Anti Walkers Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The La Fenice Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Sisters Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The LegenzSquad Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Zellenblock Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Austrian Army Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Greek Survivors Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Québec Guild Famliy (5 guilds)
- The CzSk Elite Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Lithuanian-HQ Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The Breaking Deads Guild Family (8 guilds)
- The Dead Stalkers Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Den Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The HerdReturned Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The Asylum/BJNB Guild Family (7 guilds)
- The Brexit Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The Anonym Crew Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Super Greens Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Dixon Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Expendables Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Morbid Survivors Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The Polska Moc Guild Family (8 guilds)
- The Reborn Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The FEAR Guild Family (10 guilds)
- The DarylsGoneRogue Family (2 guilds)
- The Safehouse ü30 Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Blutwölfe Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Renégats Guild Family (6 guilds)
- The LegioXX Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The Amatic Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The KILLMONGERS_UTD Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The Retribution Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The DieAuserwählten Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The Le Royaume Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The DasHausStark Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The СПАРТА Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The DARK SIDE Guild Family (2 guilds)
- The Путь в Эдем Guild Family (4 guilds)
- The Ветер перемен Guild Family (3 guilds)
- TheLastOfUs
- Daryl's Spirit
- 20 Phoenix
- DAMAGE INC
- Sweden
- Team Poland
- España Legends
- On Our Own
- Top Secret
- Dragons Weyr
- Stunde Null
- Zombieschubser
- GermanVIP
- Germany
- NML_ITALIA
- FamilyHouse
- Walkers War
- Jäger
- The Royal Guard
- Schreibers
- Nachtwächter
- Infected Legion
- SpiritOfPhoenix
- Wielka Polska
- La Cura
- Aussie DIGGAZ
- Remnants
- Belarus
- Moscow
- добро
- The Zombrex Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Taiwan Guild Family (9 guilds)
- The NL United Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The Husaria Guild Family (2 guilds)
- Sons of Norway
- NRW Fighter
- Damaged Goods
- London Warriors
- Зов Припяти
- АРМИЯ
- KAT'S WARRIORS

JayZ

By the way, this is not just a few voices. There are 290 guilds on the initial list, representing over 5800 players. The response was overwhelming - all of the guilds on this list responded within 24 hours of me posting a message in three community Line channels.

Top guilds in the U.S., Canada, U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Sweden, Russia, Lithuania, and many other countries all agree that the current version of GW is unsustainable. More than 25 out of the current GW top 40 agree. This next season of GW in 2 weeks may be inevitable, but we hope this will lead to a productive discussion about the future of GW.

Danski_46

Thank you for voicing our concerns @JayZ, this needed attention for sure.

Katz_Killers18

@JayZ don't know how I missed it, sure I probably got it. On behalf of KAT'S WARRIORS (Independent Guild) We also are in agreement with your petition.
Kat

MrChris

Asked team leader and rest of team and looks like everyone agrees, so I have permission to "sign" your petition feel free to add The Husaria Guild Family (2 guilds)

Koolo

Hi JayZ,

Thank you for initiating the signing, we strongly agree to your opinions and join the petition.

Sign,
The Taiwan Guild Family (9 Guilds)

Edd8

How about 2 days battale duration instead of 1. It will be comfortable for those coordinating the battle.

Grendel

(Brief sidetrack...)

Guilds / players who put an intense effort into every battle understandably feel like the current system is too much.
Guilds / players who play more casually and don't take it as seriously often want more attacks and more battles because it gives them something to do in the game.

I don't know how NG can balance this without splitting it. Guild Wars and Guild Wars Pro?

TimurRock

Fluxxx

Hi all,

While it's a petition that addresses significant problems that you guys are experiencing, I am very happy to see this as it shows just how tightly knit of a community you guys are! So first off, I want to give massive kudos @JayZ and all the guilds that took part, for giving us feedback in such a constructive way - we definitely appreciate that you gave this a chance.

We have been discussing this over the past couple of weeks, as an example, the main reason behind the reduction in Master Mission difficulty was to alleviate the stress a little bit, but we do recognize that there's more work needed.

Just so everyone is aware, let me reiterate that one of the big drivers behind how we run the GW schedules, is their alignment with our development cycles. For obvious reasons, we don't want to release an update mid-season, so we always have to wait until the end. This means that to extend breaks or alter durations, we would also have to push back update dates and adjust schedules.

So after this week when Season 3 ends, we're going to have a week-long break before season 4. There isn't much that we can change in season 4, however one option would be:

• First war of season 4 starts on the 15th of June
  
• The following week is a break
  
• The 2nd war starts on the 29th of June
  
• A longer 2 to 3 week break, starting on the 6th of July, and during which we'll release an update.
  
• The 3rd war continues after the update, with another week-long break before the 4th war
  

What do you guys think about this? Essentially, it would be a mid-season hiatus until late July.

As for the pacing and schedule of Season 5 onwards, we're open to making changes, so I've initiated a poll with a couple of different options, so that we can hopefully arrive at a consensus on the ideal schedule. Please encourage all of your guildmates to vote!
After this season ends, we will also review all of the feedback and data regarding the cost aspect, so I will come back to you on this a bit later.

Danski_46

Thank you @Fluxxx for a very quick response, I like the timetable, it will help a lot with gw burnout.

Billbam

would love to see how the Summer Event will schedule out with the War Weeks....this is what has caused so much of the issues from players who I have spoken with. Being forced to 2x distance (and spend gold,) play challenge competitively (and spend gold,) and GW battles (and spend gold,) plus the huge time commitment for all in one week. Is there anyway we can include Event tokens in GW shop that might replace the 2nd distance rest?

Grendel

Regarding spacing between seasons, couldn’t guilds simply skip seasons if they want a break? A lot of players don’t want a large break between seasons.

bladgier

I didn't even know I was sign up for this but hell yeah I am 😁🤘

JayZ

I'm not sure a petition is needed any more, because NG has already listened and quickly responded (thanks @Fluxxx!), but there have been 26 new guilds added in the last 24 hours, bringing our total up to 316 guilds and over 6300 players. I'll probably stop updating the list now given that we are already starting productive conversations about what can be done.

New guilds
- The Zombrex Guild Family (5 guilds)
- The Taiwan Guild Family (9 guilds)
- The NL United Guild Family (3 guilds)
- The Husaria Guild Family (2 guilds)
- Sons of Norway
- NRW Fighter
- Damaged Goods
- London Warriors
- Зов Припяти
- АРМИЯ
- KAT'S WARRIORS

Firekid

I’m not sure about a 3 week break in the middle of this up coming season with a week between wars as well. I think I’d prefer just to get this version out the way then have a 2-3 week break after.

chihuhuas

> @Billbam said:
> would love to see how the Summer Event will schedule out with the War Weeks....this is what has caused so much of the issues from players who I have spoken with. Being forced to 2x distance (and spend gold,) play challenge competitively (and spend gold,) and GW battles (and spend gold,) plus the huge time commitment for all in one week. Is there anyway we can include Event tokens in GW shop that might replace the 2nd distance rest?

chihuhuas

YES. I’ve been saying this the whole time!! It’s way to much at once...Challenge, GW, Spring event, double distance and at least a portion of the daily quest everyday

Baksdirtydozen

I am a Fear family member we have 6 to 8 guilds just putting my 5 pence worth in the meter. I personally love GW it's by far my fav part of the game and if anything un this is only Imo the only thing it's missing is them going back to 25 swords that would be better. I appreciate other peoples opinions and did read through alot and got the just that the overriding opinion of most is that between the challenge re-do distances daily tasks that the GW this regular is too much...... but I did like 1 persons response I seen which was players dont have to sign up for the wars if they dont want or havent got the time it's a personally choice there they havent got 2 play in every war if they dont want. The GW rewards are fantastic so for me it's the best thing to play for enjoyment wise, shared game play with other members and choice of great rewards with your war points so as far as I'm concerned....LONG LIVE THE REGULAR WARS!!

Governator

I'd be happy seeing a different hospital time between GW and the other game modes. When you are pushing later in the Challenge and you get your A-Team hurt, you have to wait for healing or pay gold to get them into the GW battle. I'm looking at moving my GW days to earlier in the week to avoid this, but the weekend are the best time for me. Hard to play both the Challenge and GW on the same day.

Infinite_M0nkey

It's been whittled down enough. 25 blades down to 18; 8 days down to 6.

High-end guilds who don't want to lose ground against each other are using their muscle to deprive mid-level guilds of one of the best features of the game.

This isn't 'voice of the people' and don't pretend it is. It's the elite players wanting things organised for their benefit, and to hell with everyone else.

They could take days off, it's easy to do. Just stop worrying about what your posh neighbours will think.

avelardez

The cost to heal is high. Consider reducing the healing cost to a standard 10 gold. The cost ranges from 25-27-29 gold to heal each survivor. I spend money on gold 2500 gold for $19.99 or only while in game $4.99-$9.99 for the 500 or 1200 gold bundle. That’s 86 replays at 29 gold and with three survivors needing healing that 28 attempts to play another round or wait 2hours30 minutes to heal for free. I believe NG is just taking advantage of us and have never reduce the cost to heal but only increased the cost. Come on NG. You give us the reduced healing to 15 gold flat rate. Just make it permanent. We play hard and buy gold but you never seem to ever reduce the cost. Please explain why? The tool bag grenades and med kits being reduced in power and added threats and usage cool down time was increased was just wrong. You can make quick adjustments to a tool bag but cant reduce cost seem wrong. That’s a quick code punch on a key board. It will not mess up any game mechanics either.

avelardez

Bring back guild was as the original format. Have two classes normal for FTP and hard for P2P and use GW gas. Let us buy more attacks and allow us to play all we want.

JayZ

> @Infinite_M0nkey said:
> It's been whittled down enough. 25 blades down to 18; 8 days down to 6.
>
> High-end guilds who don't want to lose ground against each other are using their muscle to deprive mid-level guilds of one of the best features of the game.
>
> This isn't 'voice of the people' and don't pretend it is. It's the elite players wanting things organised for their benefit, and to hell with everyone else.
>
> They could take days off, it's easy to do. Just stop worrying about what your posh neighbours will think.

Sure. Over 300 guilds on board. Most of the competitive leaderboard guilds, yes. But also a lot of independent guilds with diverse players.

Do I selfishly want the pace to be different? Is it hard for me to sit idle while my guild is battling? Hell yeah. Don’t get me wrong, I very much want GW to be tweaked to be a format that is convenient for me. I’d be lying if I didn’t say otherwise.

But don’t fucking come in here and pretend like I/we don’t give a shit about anyone else. A lot of people want this change, from all kinds of different guilds and communities. It seems like you’re the outlier here.

Also, check your damn math before you come in here with your “holier than thou” bullshit. You imply it was whittled down from 8 battles to 6, but in reality, it changed from 2 battles per player every 2 weeks to 2 battles per player every week. 36 attacks per week now, instead of 50 attacks every 2 weeks.

Grendel

JayZ said:

>
But don’t fucking come in here and pretend like I/we don’t give a shit about anyone else. A lot of people want this change, from all kinds of different guilds and communities. It seems like you’re the outlier here.

In fairness, I feel like I have seen as many posts from players wanting more attacks and more battles per week as I have from players who want it scaled back. Your reasons are valid; the other side's reasons are also valid. It's a tough situation.

Make 2 options:
Guild Wars
Guild Wars Pro

Your guild leader picks which one to participate in like players do with Normal/Hard distance. The seasons are the same length, but the pacing / breaks / # of battles / # of attacks is different. Ultimately, Guild Wars Pro plays 1/2 to 2/3 as much as Guild Wars.

Without an option, NG is inevitably going to disappoint a big chunk of customers.

paeaeaesch

I totally agree with the petition, but i think another big problem is playing against guilds with more participants. It's just a lottery if you win or lose, because you basically have no chance if you are down one player. Yesterday we had a perfect round with no fails, that still wasn't enough.

Joeo462

I remember being a quasi/beta tester when the game started. Flux and his team have grown, listened and improved the games from its birth. If they were to make everyone happy, it would be a first in gaming history. Personally, I would not mind the ability to join up to 50% of the available wars. Another wish would be 20 swords per war. The cool thing with wars is if you don't want to join, you don't need to. The lower level players in a guild always suffer against higher level players.
I wonder how upset the current players would be if the were to see the original game where characters that died in attacks were added to the shrine of the fallen?
Months of building up a character and then they die, now that's an upgrade I am glad to see gone.

nadecir

NextGames has a financial incentive to maintain the pace of GW. Simply put, they make money with every war.

So asking the company to slow the pace is asking them to make less money. Now will attrition slow and make up the dollar difference? Your guess is as good as mine.

Perhaps the players should focus on what makes wars so time consuming. 18 attacks twice a week are not too much for the average player.

However, the arduous coordination that is required to maximize a guild's score is one area that could be improved without having to change the pace of play.

If the entire map was initially open at the get-go, and if missions could be replayed, much of the tiresome guild coordination issues would go away and player satisfaction would increase with guild wars.

If the answer to a game issue is do it less, fix the issues that cause the player to want to play less. Don't force players who want to play more to play less.

A few simple GW changes like these would encourage players to play just as much as now with higher levels of enjoyment, and allow NextGames to keep the revenue flowing at the same rate.

SnewfDiggity

Haven’t we done in game polls before for things like this?