Update 3.9 Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • PastePaste Member Posts: 843
    I hope they just remove flat badges. It would stop GW level abuse too. Othwise the speculations have been that the Health, Damage and Critical Damage recipes include both flat and relative values.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    Karajoca
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,221
    @Grady I completely agree, this will massively affect those who are aware of the badge maps, understand them and can use them to their advantage. However, that is quite a small minority of the games player base. You could say it’s their fault for not joining the forum/discord. However any DR badge no matter the condition bonus is going to be better than no DR badges or a CC badge if you aren’t aware of the lists and it’s all completely random. 
    PasteShezza10ghost_pepper
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 843
    I wish I could be more positive about this upgrade. I know a lot of thinking and hard work went into it, and it's great that NG keeps this game from going stale. The new crafting system will also be better for beginners and people unwilling or unable to put the time on learning the complex current one. Overall these changes are great, but for me personally I think they're not.

    Waiting for the upgrade notes, and hope they will prove me wrong.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    DiElElghost_pepperAdamski316
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @Fluxxx looks like you didn’t leave room for flat badges. Are they going away? Or is it a chance in crafting health and damage? 
  • SpikedSpiked Member Posts: 160
    NG should tread VERY carefully on the badge crafting...

    if they are just making it harder for people to craft badges they want under the guise of making simpler, it is a problem.

    don’t piss off your customers..
    3vilrineghost_pepper
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    Spiked said:
    NG should tread VERY carefully on the badge crafting...

    if they are just making it harder for people to craft badges they want under the guise of making simpler, it is a problem.

    don’t piss off your customers..
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.

    This game has been around quite a while now. There's a lot of players that are end-game.  I imagine that the redesign goal of NG was "how do we change the badge system to increase revenue?"

    Perhaps the new recipes will yield better badges, so end gamers have to chase more badge components to stay on top.

    Or it could be that NG saw players quitting after badge creation, so they surmised some were frustrated with it 

    One thing is for sure. There's some data NG has that indicated they make this change.  NG does very little in this game where they are not looking at the gameplay data.
  • MudMoccasinMudMoccasin Member Posts: 912
    I wonder if the option of changing the rarity/position/set/bonus hero teammates/bonus class teammates of a badge could be a possibility? As well as increasing the % Damage/Health/DR/CD/CC of any particular badge at the cost of supplies or unused components???

  • SpikedSpiked Member Posts: 160
    nadecir said:
    Spiked said:
    NG should tread VERY carefully on the badge crafting...

    if they are just making it harder for people to craft badges they want under the guise of making simpler, it is a problem.

    don’t piss off your customers..
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.

    This game has been around quite a while now. There's a lot of players that are end-game.  I imagine that the redesign goal of NG was "how do we change the badge system to increase revenue?"

    Perhaps the new recipes will yield better badges, so end gamers have to chase more badge components to stay on top.

    Or it could be that NG saw players quitting after badge creation, so they surmised some were frustrated with it 

    One thing is for sure. There's some data NG has that indicated they make this change.  NG does very little in this game where they are not looking at the gameplay data.
    They could see simply that more and more people are using the map to craft the badges they want and they are trying to put a stop to it
    ghost_pepper3vilrine
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    I highly doubt that. In my experience, it often equates with rocket science or advanced logic proofs.

    I am constantly reminded of tyrion lannister in the last season saying "some people you just can't teach."

    They don't want a few of us to have a clear edge which doesn't even need to be monitized. It's that simple. Any optimism about this change is naivete. Come and see. This change gets pushed out no matter what. The numbers will be worse than before. I will spoon out your bonuses and let my dogs do the rest. Come and see. 





    (Oh come on that's a funny reference)
    MudMoccasin
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    NG is in the game business to make money, period.

    They make changes in the game to hopefully make more money.  That could mean adding more play to win features, or increasing player satisfaction to encourage more game play or lower player attrition.

    NG spent money to develop the system to support these new recipes.  If they did not want players using the existing badge crafting maps any more, they could just have easily just changed the patterns.

    If you change the crrafting patterns regularly, eventually players will give up trying to discover the patterns.  Or just make everything about a badge completely random.  Both of these are easier to do than they did.

    NG is not in the business of making changes like this to piss off customers.  That's not a money making proposition.
    3vilrineSarge_
  • marroba2000marroba2000 Member Posts: 259
    Today, two main streams of badge wizards exists. Those which use the monopoly map and the evil people using plane mode. This change is the victory of the dark side over the researchers. 
    Am I wrong?
    sSINTOMASs
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    Nope you're not wrong. And if they're not careful they will make a system which encourages airplane mode as the means of crafting top badges. That game is not worth playing.
  • MacVMacV Member Posts: 165
    @Fluxxx Sorry if you have already been asked this, didn't see it. Can you confirm whether flat badges are going away?
    It's going to be a major drawback for those of us who have invested significant time and money if we can't be assured of % badges. 
    I sure wouldn't spend money on components if I couldnt control that. Anything you can share with us on that is appreciated.

    Excited for the other changes in the update! 
    MacV (Trinity)
    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." Tolstoy
    JimiFaithTCBRITO
  • rogueDSrogueDS Member Posts: 616
    I just made some nice damage % and cd% badges I would rather get what I know I can get for sure then gamble after update.  The risk for a certain spot is not to bad when you can choose bonus and type of badge. And if odd or even. 
  • JimiFaithJimiFaith Member Posts: 866
    I think we all agree at this point that Queen Carol archer is a must... espacially now that bringing Shane is a reality... prepare yourselves for the wave of old characters requests NG :p

    I always thought that silent killing, stealth, and threat reduction should have more protagonism in a world like that... also silent weapons for range survivors, and the implementation of a trait that combines with Silenced, I'm glad that Razor opened the door to that game syle...
  • ReeconnReeconn Member Posts: 540
    Totally agree , i just want to play and have fun , not spend hours trying to figure out charts , graphs and data sheets on how to craft a good DR badge  
    JimiFaithm4saquilaRealClareB
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    Besides, I think @Grady did a Lions share of the work on cycles and I think I read him saying he's a big math fan number cruncher... The equation had been solved, and he'll happily move on to the next equation?

    Big math fans don't solve an equation and then sit around admiring their work... They're looking for the next big equation to solve.

    We are all grateful for the work they've done, but I don't think they're too angry. 

    Unless I'm wrong @Grady ?


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
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    Send me a PM
    ShadowWalkerMacV
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 239
    Fluxxx said:
    nadecir said:
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.
    Actually, this was the main driving force :D We were planning to do this for a while now (I hinted at it last year), and it was actually put on hold when the badge crafting patterns were shared on the forum so that players could utilize it. The thing is, the very vast majority of players in the game, are not at the end-game, and the majority of that group also does not engage very much in crafting.
    Hence, we wanted to make crafting more accessible and understandable to anyone who unlocks Craftsman.

    While we do use data, player / community sentiment and feedback are equally important to us - a lot of the changes we bring into the game are strongly driven by your feedback. Of course, we want to balance both to drive engagement and monetization - but it's never as straightforward as you might think. Otherwise, Pizza Guy Glenn and Sheriff Rick might have been alt heroes 😅

    As for some clarification on badges, we are indeed removing flat-rate badges from crafting. The ones you have will remain, but you will no longer be able to craft them.

    Finally, the seasonal campaign dates are correct - 3rd to 23rd of August. This one will be 3 weeks instead of 4, and will require only 2 distance resets instead of 3 to reach the final reward.
    If might have believed this statement if NG had changed the system so we could craft the badge we wanted @fluxxx. slot, position, shape, effect. Now that would have made it simpler, that would have been an improvement.

    Hey if you wanted to make things simpler you could even have removed the different shapes so we could easily match badges.

    The only thing I see as things stand is adding more randomness to the badge crafting system.

    It's a sad state of affairs if the only way a game company can make money is by encouraging even more gambling with it's player base.

    Maybe NG could add a condition to the tools as in "has a 40% chance not to explode" to make absolutely everything in the game random and chance based.

    @WellyLuga

    where you say that few people are aware of the existence of the cycles i have to say that all the information needed is available right here on the forum. You don't have to visit some obscure website or join a secret chat somewhere.
    You just have to read through the forum.
    I doubt people who never read any information about the game are really that into it.
    In any case, the information is there for you if you wish it. Readily available.

    To say that you are happy about going back to a state of complete randomness (or as someone said in a chat: going back to the dark ages) is surprising to say the least.

    I guess we're just all gamblers at heart?
    [Deleted User]3vilrineghost_peppercyclon98
  • GradyGrady Member Posts: 149
    edited July 2020
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Besides, I think @Grady did a Lions share of the work on cycles and I think I read him saying he's a big math fan number cruncher... The equation had been solved, and he'll happily move on to the next equation?

    Big math fans don't solve an equation and then sit around admiring their work... They're looking for the next big equation to solve.

    We are all grateful for the work they've done, but I don't think they're too angry. 

    Unless I'm wrong @Grady ?

    Well the map was only fully figured out on July 3rd, 2 weeks before this update preview. Before that we only had partial knowledge of it. Charting the badge monopoly map also happened to be the longest running and largest scale community project.
    I don't mind moving on to the next set of equations, but it would appear there won't be anywhere near the same level of complexity.
    I understand people don't want to spend 2 hours understanding how crafting works to get a perfect DR badge. However most don't realize if they had spent 10 hours farming components to get 1 perfect DR badge before, after the update they need to farm over 110~220 hours to get the same perfect DR badge based on what we know so far.
    Compare to mindless grinding for mats for hundreds of hours, the effort spent understanding a guide is hardly any time spent.
    Imagine people complaining the Distance is too long and time consuming, they then shorten it to 5 missions but lower the reward to 1/11th.

    This also create a gap for newcomers. For anyone who hasn't already reached Lv2 Craftsman, getting to the same level of stats as an end gamer is now a lot more difficult. This update is the worst for people who spent the time to understand how crafting used to work, but had being saving up material and waiting for their Lv2 Craftsman to drop.

    By the way:
    - I do like most of this update, there is so much new content and mechanics to be explored. My favorite is Shane's LT causing explosions.
    - The badge system does need to be beginners friendly. The current system is beautifully crafted and a work of art from my POV, however there is too little in-game hints for navigation, so most people wouldn't get it. That could have been helped by showing a preview of the step/jump map positions similar to the preview on Tetris or other visual clues.
    - The new implementation is rather brutal and it's a pity to see the old system abandoned. The numbers don't seem to be well thought out though and I expect complaints rising in a few months.
    - We already had an issue of Badge Fragments dropping at 16% while Components drop at 21% each. In the long run that created a 5% gap of excess components that people always complain about.
    - The new system will create an imbalance within the different Components themselves - shortage of Metal/Edible and excess of Chemical/Cloth that is far worse than 5%. (If they don't change the recipes shown in the preview.)
    [Deleted User]Paste3vilrineBurmeliinisfearofthedarkghost_pepperMaD VapoR
  • SuperheroSuperhero Member Posts: 358
    The minority of players is reading the forum and from that amount of players the minority is patient or skilled enough, to dive into the math and sheets.

    The change in system is a democratize step for the majority of the players, even if it feels like a slap in the face for the math- and finetuning geeks.

    A lot more determination for most of the people, but a bit more randomness for a few people.
    Firekidjimmorrison369ATLAS-ZKarajocaghost_pepper
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,221
    @magic not sure where the level 2 craftsman come into it but I can assure you there are 1000’s or endgame players who also haven’t had a chance to craft the badges we have because they haven’t been on the forum/discord and not in a big guild family. Even then someone in my guild tried to jump 4 times and gave up. 
    As I said earlier, those who know the badge maps lose out a bit. New players and those who didn’t know the badges win massively. A DR badge with a rubbish condition is still better than using all legendary components and getting a CC badge. 
    Shezza10ghost_pepperRickMSACarl_s_Hat
  • DeadheadsDeadheads Member Posts: 738
    It would just be nice to have SOME kind of control over position/shape/bonus ... if those truly are random i may never change a badge again because i need very specific ones for improvement.
    PasteJayZghost_pepper
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    Another possible solution is Craftsman 3 with % values 2-3 points higher.

    Then folks will be able to reach 80% DR more easily without bonus conditions.

    Food
    For
    Thought
    @Fluxxx


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
  • 3vilrine3vilrine Member Posts: 259
    edited July 2020
    Fluxxx said:
    nadecir said:
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.
    Actually, this was the main driving force :D We were planning to do this for a while now (I hinted at it last year), and it was actually put on hold when the badge crafting patterns were shared on the forum so that players could utilize it. The thing is, the very vast majority of players in the game, are not at the end-game, and the majority of that group also does not engage very much in crafting.
    Hence, we wanted to make crafting more accessible and understandable to anyone who unlocks Craftsman.

    While we do use data, player / community sentiment and feedback are equally important to us - a lot of the changes we bring into the game are strongly driven by your feedback. Of course, we want to balance both to drive engagement and monetization - but it's never as straightforward as you might think. Otherwise, Pizza Guy Glenn and Sheriff Rick might have been alt heroes 😅

    As for some clarification on badges, we are indeed removing flat-rate badges from crafting. The ones you have will remain, but you will no longer be able to craft them.

    Finally, the seasonal campaign dates are correct - 3rd to 23rd of August. This one will be 3 weeks instead of 4, and will require only 2 distance resets instead of 3 to reach the final reward.
    If might have believed this statement if NG had changed the system so we could craft the badge we wanted @fluxxx. slot, position, shape, effect. Now that would have made it simpler, that would have been an improvement.

    Hey if you wanted to make things simpler you could even have removed the different shapes so we could easily match badges.

    The only thing I see as things stand is adding more randomness to the badge crafting system.

    It's a sad state of affairs if the only way a game company can make money is by encouraging even more gambling with it's player base.

    Maybe NG could add a condition to the tools as in "has a 40% chance not to explode" to make absolutely everything in the game random and chance based.

    @WellyLuga

    where you say that few people are aware of the existence of the cycles i have to say that all the information needed is available right here on the forum. You don't have to visit some obscure website or join a secret chat somewhere.
    You just have to read through the forum.
    I doubt people who never read any information about the game are really that into it.
    In any case, the information is there for you if you wish it. Readily available.

    To say that you are happy about going back to a state of complete randomness (or as someone said in a chat: going back to the dark ages) is surprising to say the least.

    I guess we're just all gamblers at heart?

    Well said, there is nothing more to add.

    Superhero said:
    The minority of players is reading the forum and from that amount of players the minority is patient or skilled enough, to dive into the math and sheets.

    The change in system is a democratize step for the majority of the players, even if it feels like a slap in the face for the math- and finetuning geeks.

    A lot more determination for most of the people, but a bit more randomness for a few people.

    That means as much as laziness is rewarded from now on. Everyone who is "really" interested in the game and tries to get better is looking for it and thus you inevitably come across sooner or later via the forum, chats, charts etc.

    JayZghost_pepperMaD VapoR
  • IgorGGTIgorGGT Member Posts: 55
    i see another solution, make legendary components easier to get, so you can make more good badges and not get frustated when comes a bad condition
    fearofthedarkghost_pepper
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,252
    edited July 2020
    Fluxxx said:
    nadecir said:
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.
    Actually, this was the main driving force :D We were planning to do this for a while now (I hinted at it last year), and it was actually put on hold when the badge crafting patterns were shared on the forum so that players could utilize it. The thing is, the very vast majority of players in the game, are not at the end-game, and the majority of that group also does not engage very much in crafting.
    Hence, we wanted to make crafting more accessible and understandable to anyone who unlocks Craftsman.

    While we do use data, player / community sentiment and feedback are equally important to us - a lot of the changes we bring into the game are strongly driven by your feedback. Of course, we want to balance both to drive engagement and monetization - but it's never as straightforward as you might think. Otherwise, Pizza Guy Glenn and Sheriff Rick might have been alt heroes 😅

    As for some clarification on badges, we are indeed removing flat-rate badges from crafting. The ones you have will remain, but you will no longer be able to craft them.

    Finally, the seasonal campaign dates are correct - 3rd to 23rd of August. This one will be 3 weeks instead of 4, and will require only 2 distance resets instead of 3 to reach the final reward.
    If might have believed this statement if NG had changed the system so we could craft the badge we wanted @fluxxx. slot, position, shape, effect. Now that would have made it simpler, that would have been an improvement.

    Hey if you wanted to make things simpler you could even have removed the different shapes so we could easily match badges.

    The only thing I see as things stand is adding more randomness to the badge crafting system.

    It's a sad state of affairs if the only way a game company can make money is by encouraging even more gambling with it's player base.

    Maybe NG could add a condition to the tools as in "has a 40% chance not to explode" to make absolutely everything in the game random and chance based.

    @WellyLuga

    where you say that few people are aware of the existence of the cycles i have to say that all the information needed is available right here on the forum. You don't have to visit some obscure website or join a secret chat somewhere.
    You just have to read through the forum.
    I doubt people who never read any information about the game are really that into it.
    In any case, the information is there for you if you wish it. Readily available.

    To say that you are happy about going back to a state of complete randomness (or as someone said in a chat: going back to the dark ages) is surprising to say the least.

    I guess we're just all gamblers at heart?
    As mentioned by @Superhero - think about how many people play the game. This forum is in English/German so that rules out any countries who don't speak those languages. At the end of the day this is a mobile game, it's not e-sports and you shouldn't have to go through the lengths to learn about the crafting system that you do now. Not everyone wants to sign up for a forum, or even know to look for one and not everyone wants to scan through data and spreadsheets. They just want to kill some zombies, chat shit with their guild and maybe craft a good badge once in a while. They don't know it but they will likely never craft a DR badge with a solid bonus to it and it shouldn't be that way.

    You don't know that it isn't totally random or going back to the dark ages. All the information we have now is based off a 3 minute video where Fluxxx barely delves into any detail on the new system. There might be a sequence to what bonuses you get like there is now for the player base to figure out. Then it will be about using the right components at the right time.

    Like I said it will divide opinion but I think this is a step in the right direction.
    SuperheroStalker20ATLAS-ZShezza10KarajocaRickMSABigGunner
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