Update 3.9 Discussion Thread

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  • SuperheroSuperhero Member Posts: 358
    3vilrine said:
    That means as much as laziness is rewarded from now on. Everyone who is "really" interested in the game and tries to get better is looking for it and thus you inevitably come across sooner or later via the forum, chats, charts etc.



    Its not about laziness. Its about the possibility to get into it. The knowledge about the cycles and the system behind it is floating around for some time now, but it wasn´t shared in public for a long time. It was dealed as a good kept secret from most of the top players who took advantage of it.

    I´m aware of the system for not longer then a year now. This isn´t about laziness. It was about non sharing. In this time I just spent my hardly earned components to get shitty badges, while other people crafted badges with perfect conditions.

    When I discovered the system on the Discord server shared by some pretty cool dudes and dudettes, I was still hammered by the complexity. Next problem was that it was hard for me to check what was served, because english isn´t my native language.

    Now that I´m in, I spend lots of time in my guild chat to explain it to other players, that are not into it.

    The top players are not amused about the change, because they can´t finetune their badgesets with hundreds of golden badges anymore. But the majority of the players would be lucky if they would have some good sets at last.

    Its not about laziness, its about equality.
    3vilrineBurmeliinisFirekid8900rpmJayZghost_pepperPasteMaD VapoR
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 239
    WellyLuga said:
    Fluxxx said:
    nadecir said:
    I doubt making it simpler was the major driving force behind the badge crafting re-do.
    Actually, this was the main driving force :D We were planning to do this for a while now (I hinted at it last year), and it was actually put on hold when the badge crafting patterns were shared on the forum so that players could utilize it. The thing is, the very vast majority of players in the game, are not at the end-game, and the majority of that group also does not engage very much in crafting.
    Hence, we wanted to make crafting more accessible and understandable to anyone who unlocks Craftsman.

    While we do use data, player / community sentiment and feedback are equally important to us - a lot of the changes we bring into the game are strongly driven by your feedback. Of course, we want to balance both to drive engagement and monetization - but it's never as straightforward as you might think. Otherwise, Pizza Guy Glenn and Sheriff Rick might have been alt heroes 😅

    As for some clarification on badges, we are indeed removing flat-rate badges from crafting. The ones you have will remain, but you will no longer be able to craft them.

    Finally, the seasonal campaign dates are correct - 3rd to 23rd of August. This one will be 3 weeks instead of 4, and will require only 2 distance resets instead of 3 to reach the final reward.
    If might have believed this statement if NG had changed the system so we could craft the badge we wanted @fluxxx. slot, position, shape, effect. Now that would have made it simpler, that would have been an improvement.

    Hey if you wanted to make things simpler you could even have removed the different shapes so we could easily match badges.

    The only thing I see as things stand is adding more randomness to the badge crafting system.

    It's a sad state of affairs if the only way a game company can make money is by encouraging even more gambling with it's player base.

    Maybe NG could add a condition to the tools as in "has a 40% chance not to explode" to make absolutely everything in the game random and chance based.

    @WellyLuga

    where you say that few people are aware of the existence of the cycles i have to say that all the information needed is available right here on the forum. You don't have to visit some obscure website or join a secret chat somewhere.
    You just have to read through the forum.
    I doubt people who never read any information about the game are really that into it.
    In any case, the information is there for you if you wish it. Readily available.

    To say that you are happy about going back to a state of complete randomness (or as someone said in a chat: going back to the dark ages) is surprising to say the least.

    I guess we're just all gamblers at heart?
    As mentioned by @Superhero - think about how many people play the game. This forum is in English/German so that rules out any countries who don't speak those languages. At the end of the day this is a mobile game, it's not e-sports and you shouldn't have to go through the lengths to learn about the crafting system that you do now. Not everyone wants to sign up for a forum, or even know to look for one and not everyone wants to scan through data and spreadsheets. They just want to kill some zombies, chat shit with their guild and maybe craft a good badge once in a while. They don't know it but they will likely never craft a DR bonus with a solid bonus to it and it shouldn't be that way.

    You don't know that it isn't totally random or going back to the dark ages. All the information we have now is based off a 3 minute video where Fluxxx barely delves into any detail on the new system. There might be a sequence to what bonuses you get like there is now for the player base to figure out. Then it will be about using the right components at the right time.

    Like I said it will divide opinion but I think this is a step in the right direction.
    People who "just want to kill some zombies" without wanting to learn anything about the game also could probably care less what badge they carve.
    People that look to improve (in any game) will eventually seek out sources of information to improve al aspects of their gameplay.

    As for "you don't know it's totally random", since @fluxxx said it in so many words i can assume that it is. If it isn't then i would expect the message and the wording to reflect this. 
    As it is, it was announced as random.
    Or am I being difficult basing this on the words of the community manager? :p
    3vilrineShadowWalkerghost_peppercyclon98Paste
  • SpikedSpiked Member Posts: 160
    “Simpler” just happens to be “worse” right after the map is figured out and more people are using it.

    i’m sure it is just a pure coincidence 
    3vilrineghost_pepper
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,252
    edited July 2020
    I'm sure it's not the first time something in this game has been labelled 'random' when it isn't, many things appear that way when really they are pre-determined. I bet everyone thought the previous badge crafting system was random when it wasn't. 

    The game is stale and so was the crafting system. Basically the same 38 badges over and over and over. Occasional jumps to get better badges blah blah blah.

    I have my opinion and you have yours which is fair enough. Sometimes random is good, its fun, sometimes its not. But predictability is boring after a while. At least now we might be able to get more DR badges with solid bonuses without having to spend a few weeks worth of 1-3* components.
    Shezza10
  • MacVMacV Member Posts: 165
    Thanks for the info @Fluxxx
    Looking forward to all the new stuff.
    MacV (Trinity)
    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." Tolstoy
    Deathwish19
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    Its not about laziness. Its about the possibility to get into it. The knowledge about the cycles and the system behind it is floating around for some time now, but it wasn´t shared in public for a long time. It was dealed as a good kept secret from most of the top players who took advantage of it.

    I´m aware of the system for not longer then a year now. This isn´t about laziness. It was about non sharing. In this time I just spent my hardly earned components to get shitty badges, while other people crafted badges with perfect conditions.
    I just want to correct this. The information was kept secret for a very short time. As soon as the badge cycles were shared to a few guilds it was almost immediately shared on the forums, as at that point there was only info about the 1DR and the 6DR cycles, and some players were bummed they were in the 1DR cycle. So when it was shared, the map was very incomplete and how jumping works was unknown. As @Grady mentioned, the whole map was completed just two weeks ago and all progress in between has been shared on magic’s discord and on this forum.

    Ingame username: Jubjab
    ghost_pepperSarge_PasteDeathwish19
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    @Fluxxx Are the update notes for the new release out?  Have I missed them somewhere?

    It would be better for the players to get update notes earlier in the future.  Players are going to be upset if they are spending resources now that they might want to use instead in the next release.
  • SuperheroSuperhero Member Posts: 358
    I just want to correct this. The information was kept secret for a very short time.


    Your impression vs mine. I noticed that there was more knowledge about badge crafting inside my guild, as it was shared right away.

    The other points that I mentioned are still valid. Players vs forum members, knowing forum members vs sheet geeks and so on.

    I welcome the change for all players, even if I´m into the chart system now for myself.
    jimmorrison369Karajoca
  • marroba2000marroba2000 Member Posts: 259
    Its not about laziness. Its about the possibility to get into it. The knowledge about the cycles and the system behind it is floating around for some time now, but it wasn´t shared in public for a long time. It was dealed as a good kept secret from most of the top players who took advantage of it.

    I´m aware of the system for not longer then a year now. This isn´t about laziness. It was about non sharing. In this time I just spent my hardly earned components to get shitty badges, while other people crafted badges with perfect conditions.
    I just want to correct this. The information was kept secret for a very short time. As soon as the badge cycles were shared to a few guilds it was almost immediately shared on the forums, as at that point there was only info about the 1DR and the 6DR cycles, and some players were bummed they were in the 1DR cycle. So when it was shared, the map was very incomplete and how jumping works was unknown. As @Grady mentioned, the whole map was completed just two weeks ago and all progress in between has been shared on magic’s discord and on this forum.

    Agree. I discovered the 1/6DR cycles in the JayZ ‘s Guide. I translated this into Spanish and shared within the post. In the same place there was a reference to Magic’s Discord with more information. I found the monopoly map, translated and shared again. 
    Besides this, I shared the information with at least 10 other guilds. 
    So, secret? No. Recently released? No again. 

    The only players that don’ Care about this were those who use airplane mode. And again, those are the players that don’t care about this update. They will continue using their system. 
  • SuperheroSuperhero Member Posts: 358
    The only players that don’ Care about this were those who use airplane mode. And again, those are the players that don’t care about this update. They will continue using their system. 

    Fail. I never used airplane mode, and never will. Beside that I don´t know anyway, what the airplane mode is all about.
  • GradyGrady Member Posts: 149
    edited July 2020
    WellyLuga said:
    I'm sure it's not the first time something in this game has been labelled 'random' when it isn't, many things appear that way when really they are pre-determined. I bet everyone thought the previous badge crafting system was random when it wasn't. 

    The game is stale and so was the crafting system. Basically the same 38 badges over and over and over. Occasional jumps to get better badges blah blah blah.

    FYI, there are exactly 256 map positions, and each map position can give up to 5 different results with 28 different bonuses.
    WellyLuga said:
    As mentioned by @Superhero - think about how many people play the game. This forum is in English/German so that rules out any countries who don't speak those languages.
    FYI, over 80% of the contributors I know who helped mapping the charts don't speak English as their first language. It is not mine either.
    In fact, much of the work shared here were first written in another language then translated into English.
    I don't know why people assume that. This game is made by a Finland company and localized in multiple different languages.

    3vilrineghost_pepperSarge_PasteMaD VapoR
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 370
    I stopped crafting with pattern because even when i can control bonus trait i can end up with 18+4 retaliate DR which isn't good for me anymore.
    Happened twice in row that i do all the jumping from pattern to pattern, go through full cycle only for few "great spots" to use my legendary comps only to end up with low numbers.

    I am at the point that i only need few perfect badges to make my sets complete and i stopped crafting because chances to get what i need on right spot, good bonus trait and good value are small and i can't be bothered. 

    I will wait for update to continue crafting. Why? 
    Nothing in this game is random, i refuse to believe that. Even those set/positions are probably fixed, have some pattern but it's larger and hard to recognise. 

    Fluxxx, or anyone from NG won't simply come here and tell you exactly what you need to do, how to craft more efficiently and to spend less money on this game. We also thought current crafting is all random. Then YEARS after badges are introduced, HALLELUJAH , there is pattern ! 
    So, don't tell me now won't be the same.
    I see this update great for majority of players who just want to have simple receipt to get what they want. 
    For us who need few % more to upgrade our perfect sets won't be easy but it isn't much better now too. I look forward to discover new ways of crafting and how to make the best out of it. 

    Of course, if i am wrong and this completely sucks like apparently most of you think it will - no worries. I look forward to riot here with you  :D
    Shezza10SuperheroaquilaRickMSA
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 239
    Karajoca said:
    I stopped crafting with pattern because even when i can control bonus trait i can end up with 18+4 retaliate DR which isn't good for me anymore.
    Happened twice in row that i do all the jumping from pattern to pattern, go through full cycle only for few "great spots" to use my legendary comps only to end up with low numbers.

    I am at the point that i only need few perfect badges to make my sets complete and i stopped crafting because chances to get what i need on right spot, good bonus trait and good value are small and i can't be bothered. 

    I will wait for update to continue crafting. Why? 
    Nothing in this game is random, i refuse to believe that. Even those set/positions are probably fixed, have some pattern but it's larger and hard to recognise. 

    Fluxxx, or anyone from NG won't simply come here and tell you exactly what you need to do, how to craft more efficiently and to spend less money on this game. We also thought current crafting is all random. Then YEARS after badges are introduced, HALLELUJAH , there is pattern ! 
    So, don't tell me now won't be the same.
    I see this update great for majority of players who just want to have simple receipt to get what they want. 
    For us who need few % more to upgrade our perfect sets won't be easy but it isn't much better now too. I look forward to discover new ways of crafting and how to make the best out of it. 

    Of course, if i am wrong and this completely sucks like apparently most of you think it will - no worries. I look forward to riot here with you  :D
    Nothing in this game is random??? Seriously?

    I don't know what game you have been playing but it certainly isn't NML.  :D
  • mimicamimica Member Posts: 368
    edited July 2020
    So where are the frikin update notes!!!!

    Did the guy who close the office forgot to press "Post Discussion" before going off for the weekend? 
    Shezza10ShadowWalkerPasteSuperheroGrady
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    Karajoca said:

    For us who need few % more to upgrade our perfect sets won't be easy but it isn't much better now too. I look forward to discover new ways of crafting and how to make the best out of it. 

    I'm telling you, 
    Craftsman 3 with potential of 2-3% higher badges problem solved.

    Hopefully @Fluxxx coming soon to an update near you!



    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
    ghost_pepperBigGunner
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 370
    Not speaking of playing missions @Mario_Romero but everything outside of it
    I mean... , someone show you there is pattern for badges and you still believe all is random ? That is exactly the proof how this game works and that behind everything there is a "pattern" - radio calls, gear drop, traits on gear....etc. For EVERYTHING

    Now, why we don't know about it ? Because someone need to sweat ass, to write down, to discover. And of course because "cycles" are not 38 but way,way larger. Patterns we know now are just a tiny piece of whole crafting world. If our discovery is too big NG would never let it run for this long time. In fact, i believe they make this update to really try to help us in a way that is still good for their business 

    Anyway, i am tired of talking about it... Time will show if this change is good. 
    But all this discussion we have is because update notes are not shown, no details spoken, no real conversation with players. Instead of everyone being excited to update game next week, they are afraid of it. That's what you get when you keep secrets...
    SuperheroTCBRITORickMSABigGunner
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,221
    @Karajoca it was actually giving us a sneak peek that caused the issue, not the keeping secrets. Looking at this thread then NG might decide to not do that anymore and just to give us the update notes when they are ready and be done with it. Personally I like the sneak peaks, but If people are going to fly off the handle at them then maybe it’s best they don’t. Then people could complain about not being given enough time to prepare for the update in anyway they feel fits.  
    Other than that, I completely agree with you. Enough talking time to just wait and see now. 
    SuperheroWellyLugaShezza10BigGunner
  • marroba2000marroba2000 Member Posts: 259
    Superhero said:
    The only players that don’ Care about this were those who use airplane mode. And again, those are the players that don’t care about this update. They will continue using their system. 

    Fail. I never used airplane mode, and never will. Beside that I don´t know anyway, what the airplane mode is all about.
    Wasn’t talking about you. I don’t know who you are. I was talking about people that try to manta in a control about the badges generated. 
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    Its not about laziness. Its about the possibility to get into it. The knowledge about the cycles and the system behind it is floating around for some time now, but it wasn´t shared in public for a long time. It was dealed as a good kept secret from most of the top players who took advantage of it.

    I´m aware of the system for not longer then a year now. This isn´t about laziness. It was about non sharing. 
    I just want to correct this. The information was kept secret for a very short time. 
    Agree. I discovered the 1/6DR cycles in the JayZ ‘s Guide. I translated this into Spanish and shared within the post. In the same place there was a reference to Magic’s Discord with more information. I found the monopoly map, translated and shared again. 
    I want you to know that i shared your spanish translation 6 different times. Thank you for that!

    I want to address the secrecy comment. False!

    Every bit of info discovered about the cycles and more specifically the jump locations each badge has was shared openly as it was discovered during the first half of this year. I watched that happen. I don't know about the earliest forrays into the unknown at the end of last year but i don't think there was even much of an audience for it at the time.

    Every single question from every single visitor in the #badges channel was answered. No matter how clueless someone was, that person was helped by whoever was available at the time. That beautiful alchemy of knowledge and help is why the channel grew with volunteers and the entire map was discovered. There was no shadowy dark junta cabal leading an effort to upend this game. Put away the tin foil hats and hold NG accountable so that THEY don't upend this game, even accidentally. 

    Grady has now mentioned twice how the presumed math does not favor players in this new system. No, quite the opposit. Is NG listening?
    marroba2000
  • IgorGGTIgorGGT Member Posts: 55
    simple, implement some more things when creating the badges, we can choose if we want with class condition, trait condition or no bonus condition, but with a 60% of chance to come what you chose so people wouldn't have badges with no bonus condition every time, and maybe the option between odd or even. i think it wouldn't be OP and it would help the end gamers, midgamers like me, prefer badges with condition, because when we craft a 4* with no bonus we get like 14% damage, and with a bonus condition we get a badge with 13% +3% of the bonus which is clearly better. i think that would be great to end gamers and to mid gamers
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    Maybe they could add in some special spices we can look for?

    A little paprika and increases chances of Carol hero bonus

    A little pickle juice increase chances of Eugene bonus

    Some eye of newt increases chance of fudge bonus

    Etc etc


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    NG has a plan to turn the new badge crafting system into a money maker somehow.  Perhaps not immediately, but at some point they will further monetize badge crafting.

    Perhaps their plan is to add hard to find elements that craft unique badges with special recipes.

    Every update adds more to the chase for end-gamers.  Without the regular additions to the chase, end-gamers get bored.  And without the chase, NG cannot monetize the game.

    The first most sought after unicorns were highest level survivors and equipment. Then heroes were added.  Next came badges.  Followed by grenades and medkits.  When the whales get to the point that they have it all, something new must be added to the chase.
    BigGunner
  • marroba2000marroba2000 Member Posts: 259
    Agree. I discovered the 1/6DR cycles in the JayZ ‘s Guide. I translated this into Spanish and shared within the post. In the same place there was a reference to Magic’s Discord with more information. I found the monopoly map, translated and shared again. 
    I want you to know that i shared your spanish translation 6 different times. Thank you for that!

    Glad to read this. Two weeks ago a single guild was included into Olympus Guilds. His leader shared his treasures and show me the translated monopoly that I was attached in the Badges Channel. 🤷🏻‍♂️😀
    ghost_pepper
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    I've been talking to three types of crafters all week since the bomb dropped. Crafters who have never jumped or only ever stumbled blindly from A to B when someone held their hand to help. They don't want to jump. I've also talked to crafters who knew as much or more than me about the map and who have their thoughts about what's going to happen.

    The third group has an understanding of how to jump and wants to try to get some good badges before they maybe can't anymore. Or before the chances drop significantly in a poorly executed "fix". This third group wants some help deciphering the badge map. 

    I quickly marked up the map grady released with optimum gold badge locations, suggested gold badge locations, locations to use blue when jumping, and optimum movements to be aware of for Steps and Jumps so you know where to go next. It's not perfect but it's reasonably good. 

    If it will help you or someone in your guild, please take the time to share it as widely as possible while there is still time to craft.


    Paste
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    Ok so the update notes are out, but to be honest, they are not very helpful at all.

    There is no mention about what everyone was waiting for: is the bonus condition totally random or not? It’s cleverly left out from this sentence 

    “Badge position, shape, and min-max values are still going to be randomized, only the effect can be controlled”
    I also expected a table of Rick’s hero trait values by level.

    Ingame username: Jubjab
    KarajocaGradyPaste
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 843
    Firekid said:
    it was actually giving us a sneak peek that caused the issue, not the keeping secrets. Looking at this thread then NG might decide to not do that anymore and just to give us the update notes when they are ready and be done with it. Personally I like the sneak peaks, but If people are going to fly off the handle at them then maybe it’s best they don’t. Then people could complain about not being given enough time to prepare for the update in anyway they feel fits.  
    Other than that, I completely agree with you. Enough talking time to just wait and see now. 

    Honestly, these reactions are nothing compared to previous reactions to GW and similar. NG and Fluxxx have thick skin by now, and knows better than to take every comment here at face value.

    Also, he gave us incomplete information before, with short notice. Next time we get information will be after they turn off the social servers. We have to act based on the information we have.

    I'm sick of some of the negativity on this forum too, but I think we're mostly having a healthy conversation here.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    KarajocaFirekidmarroba2000jimmorrison369ghost_pepper
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 843
    Fluxx just posted the update notes, so I guess I was wrong. This doesn't change anything in terms of the badge system though. If you have components saved up and know the badge system, then you definitely want to use them before the update.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    jimmorrison369[Deleted User]ghost_pepper
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 3,221
    Only two resets needed to get the 3000 campaign tokens but you cannot miss a daily or tradeshop. I think that’s a nice balance. Trouble is I always miss a daily! 😳
    marroba2000Stalker20jimmorrison369Paste
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 370
    Paste said:
    Fluxx just posted the update notes, so I guess I was wrong. This doesn't change anything in terms of the badge system though. If you have components saved up and know the badge system, then you definitely want to use them before the update.
    Yeah, well, you are probably right, and i'll drop it. Whoever think they profit from current system should use it while possible.

    I still think, this is exactly what they wanted - confusion, afraid of changes, then fast spend all hoarded components so you can't use them after update - while it will be way better to craft after and you will then need to buy new components. 

    We here jump into conclusions so fast, and always take the worst possibility into account. Many of you claimed here how T-Dog give  punish to warriors and scout and for himself(and bruisers who has punish) just adds damage on it. While now we see that his trait actually comes after punish, as totally new hit, increasing chance to stun, making him way more useful then some of you thought. 

    I have no proofs of course, that same will happen with badge crafting, but it's the fact that all claiming how it will suck is conclusion based on ... well, probably just disappointments and bad experience from past updates. 
    jimmorrison369BigGunner
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,073
    Karajoca said:
    We here jump into conclusions so fast, and always take the worst possibility into account. Many of you claimed here how T-Dog give  punish to warriors and scout and for himself(and bruisers who has punish) just adds damage on it. While now we see that his trait actually comes after punish, as totally new hit, increasing chance to stun, making him way more useful then some of you thought. 
    Well actually,
    in the sneak-preview. It was said that Beat-em-up would STACK with punish.

    That literally would mean it would only add damage to punish.
    I don't know if it was poor word choice, or they made a last minute change.
    There was no Jumping to conclusions. 

    About the badges. For those who know how to use the predictable badge system.
    CRAFT NOW! It was fun while it lasted, but be honest. I don't think it was ever intended to be figured out like this.
    All badges you could craft was PROFIT.
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