Remove VG and DS

As in the title, the two traits that are underperforming, least favored, outdated, out-fashion, out of meta currently AND yet showing up most often when rerolling are Defensive Stance and Vigilant. I would also add Bullet Dodge as well but it still has some of its uses. 

Since the majority of players tend to use all of action points instead of staying on Overwatch which does not create threat but loose the control of choosing which target to hit and which not to, deal 50% less damage (or more) and many other disadvantages. 

Meta has been changing, new traits and heroes have been added to the game, the old ones that does not serve well should go, don't you think?

Leaving the idea for new better traits or improvements for the veterans :).
relb67Sarge_RiotZappaDrunkenXeRoladre5KyrusMichelWars

Comments

  • NanajjaNanajja Member Posts: 81
    Couldn’t agree more & thanks for looking out for the little guys trying to progress! Hope for happy medium in future!
    ATLAS-Z
  • NanajjaNanajja Member Posts: 81
    Thx for thinking of others Karajoca
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    edited January 10
    Karajoca said:
    I can't agree with this  buddy. :)
    We can't agree on everything boss XD. Anyway, I understand that every trait has its usage (ofc), but toward the end game or maybe in the middle of the way, I am already looking for replacement. The truth is those two traits are very old as the game it is. 
    Let me explain myself a little bit here.
    Vigilant is ok trait, that some of the players even use on Scout Rick believe it or not.  It will have even bigger use if something is done with shooters in the future. I can easy see few potential buffs, or weapon additions that can make vigilant very useful to have.
    Every hero has 4 slots for universal traits, Vigilant is used to deal for damage but only on Overwatch. Besides Power Strike, Luck, Ruthless are must-have, the last slot would be a preference choice between Strong and Vigilant. I am confident that Strong will gain the upper hand in almost every situation. Remember that Overwatch with Scout/Warrior usually attacks 1 walker because the walkers move one by one, dealing 50%+ ~35% = 85% normal damage. While you can hit and run one or more walkers while dealing (100% + 10% (S))*1.3(PS) = 143% normal damage plus extra CC chance if body-shot fails to kick in.
    As for Defensive Stance, i think it's important trait for new players, who still haven't crafted enough badges to reach 80% of DR.


    In the my case above, I would still choose to attack those 2 walkers even if I do not have full DR and full charge.
    Chance I got both stun: 20%, 1 of them stun: 50%, or all body-shot: 30%. Best case scenario I would take 0 damage, or get hit by 1 and if unlucky get hit twice.
    If I chose to stay OW, I would definitely get hit by at least 1 (45%) or get hit twice (55%) while taking about 30% less damage. 
    Most of the time I find myself facing more than one walker at a time, and after getting ok badges, I always choose not to stay in OW, so DS is pointless. Furthermore, when going for a strike, I have more chance gaining charge point with Sasha's LT if I hit more than 1 walkers, because once again, in OW you can only hit once, most of the time one walker when you are using melee. 
    Lastly, with a bruiser, Dodge, Luck, Retaliate and Punish and Iron Skin are must-have, DS stands no chance. 


    Even if they combine those 2 traits into 1 trait, name it "Watchful", increase damage dealt and taking less damage while in OW, I do not think I would choose it over other traits mentioned above.

    After all, this is my personal opinion, I have much to learn from you and other veterans @Karajoca   o:).
    KarajocaDeathwish19
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    Paste said:
    Vigilant is the best 5th trait on scouts and warriors.

    When my heroes get one more slot, I will def get it  :D
    ShadowWalkerMichelWars
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 666
    Vov said:
    When my heroes get one more slot, I will def get it  :D
    You know my argument doesn't apply to heroes, so why do you limit your response to only heroes? Trying to win the internet today?
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    MichelWars
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 751
    Vigilant does have its uses, even though rare. Buffing it a bit (maybe x % less bodyshots, similar to Alpha's trait) would make it a lot more interesting.

    Defensive Stance is useful only for non-playing situations, i.e. in Outpost and GW defense, where you don't have the luxury of badges. Even then it's not that useful. 
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    PasteRiotZappa
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    edited January 11
    Paste said:
    Vov said:
    When my heroes get one more slot, I will def get it  :D
    You know my argument doesn't apply to heroes, so why do you limit your response to only heroes? Trying to win the internet today?
    Oh yes, I just remember I have a few survivors too

    Apparently Vigilant now is at 6th place. So not a chance. 

    RiotZappaPaste
  • SteeboonSteeboon Member Posts: 623
    You cannot hope for traits to be removed since they are re-rollable now imo. How will NG compensate players who have spent a forune on re-rolled VG & DF?

    At most, % changes may be made to the trait. 
  • IcePeterIcePeter Member Posts: 280
    They won’t take it off existing gear, but could stop adding it to new gear. Combine VG and DS, and it still kinda sucks. Add wrestle-proof to it and you might have a winner.
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    @Paste can you show me your Vigilant survivors in action? There could be something I can learn from :)
    RiotZappa
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    edited January 14
    Steeboon said:
    You cannot hope for traits to be removed since they are re-rollable now imo. How will NG compensate players who have spent a forune on re-rolled VG & DF?

    At most, % changes may be made to the trait. 
    On the contrary, it is very doable. Remember how flat value badges were taken out of the game, anyone who still has (and use) flat badges can still use them but no longer be able to create any. And there is simply no compensation needed cause it is an improvement, not something NG owes you.

    And isn't it that traits have been able to be rerolled for a very long time? Only badge reroll was introduced in patch 3.10 

    I suppose they have a set of traits for every class, like everyone has a set of clothes. Adding/removing traits are like taking one of those clothes to put on/off. Now what I wanted to propose is when I take one off, I don't want to put it back in the closet but the laundry basket till I have nothing to wear, then I wash them and wear them again. VG and DS are those so old that do not fit me anymore :).

  • PastePaste Member Posts: 666
    edited January 12
    Vov said:
    @Paste can you show me your Vigilant survivors in action? There could be something I can learn from :)
    Use Tactical Spear or Dragon's Tongue and place your survivor in overwatch with 4 spaces between them and the closest walker (aggressive ones preferably). With Overwatch this makes up to 50% extra damage (assuming lots of pink stars, but people often get many class tokens and max their non-heroes). It isn't a deal breaker trait or anything, but there are no other traits that are even helpful at high levels.

    Follow Through only activates on overkill, and the higher level walkers you play, the less you will overkill. Plus you don't get the charge point from bonus kills, and it can ruin stun walls unintentionally.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
  • warlock1271warlock1271 Member Posts: 139
      Rick's overwatch damage w/ vigilant & Morgan in lead.  ;):#B)
    VovBurmeliinis
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    edited January 13
    Paste said:
    Vov said:
    @Paste can you show me your Vigilant survivors in action? There could be something I can learn from :)
    Use Tactical Spear or Dragon's Tongue and place your survivor in overwatch with 4 spaces between them and the closest walker (aggressive ones preferably). With Overwatch this makes up to 50% extra damage (assuming lots of pink stars, but people often get many class tokens and max their non-heroes). It isn't a deal breaker trait or anything, but there are no other traits that are even helpful at high levels.

    Follow Through only activates on overkill, and the higher level walkers you play, the less you will overkill. Plus you don't get the charge point from bonus kills, and it can ruin stun walls unintentionally.
    With Spear/DT I can also attack 1 or more walkers then move 3 spaces away walkers, gain advantage from Strong and Power Strike and maybe Follow Through, if FT kills on a normal attack, it gives charge point. And FT also works on OW. I don't think we normally build stun wall when there is Scout/Warrior in the team btw. 

    It is now a preference choice, I guess. But how many VG heroes/survivors you have on your main crew? Mine: 0. 
  • VovVov Member Posts: 72
    edited January 13
      Rick's overwatch damage w/ vigilant & Morgan in lead.  ;):#B)
    That damage is impressive, but as strong as your heroes and survivor are, it is nowhere near usefulness because you cannot choose which one to attack compare to your SR 450k damage on charge attack :wink:
    @MichelWars, this is the lvl 75 that can conquer your dream sectors mate :smile:
    MichelWars
  • euchideuchid Member Posts: 258
    While we are at it, cant you change sure shot from critical chance to critical damage. It feels so useless when you take a charged shot.
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @euchid they have it. It’s called ruthless... 
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