Fast Question: TRAIT CHANGES

Hi all,

@Fluxxx I updated the game at IOS. Shouldn't we see increased damage for characters with strong and marksman?


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Comments

  • Fox2010Fox2010 Member Posts: 15
    edited April 20
    All I see is DEcreasing damage for all my scouts and shooters.  

    Before update

    After update

    Where is the Increasing? DD characters became weaker after such "increasing" perks!
  • eduardogrooveeduardogroove Member Posts: 20
    Me too
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,012
    edited April 20
    I did a quick test and it looks like a display issue. The actual dmg in a scavenge mission was clearly higher than the shown dmg on the profile pic.

    Similar to the bug where the season missions' profile pics show dmg without Marksman/Strong. 
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    Le_Mat
  • Fox2010Fox2010 Member Posts: 15
    Is this another bug or numeric badges once again become more powerful than percentage-badges ? 
  • FluxxxFluxxx Staff Posts: 1,085
    Hey guys, thanks for bringing this up! We're looking into it now, I'll keep you posted when we find out more :) 
    FuriousMoldovanLe_MatMudMoccasinSarge_
  • I did a quick test and it looks like a display issue. The actual dmg in a scavenge mission was clearly higher than the shown dmg on the profile pic.

    Similar to the bug where the season missions' profile pics show dmg without Marksman/Strong. 
    I have the opposite :D
    displayed dmg higher but real dmg same as before update
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,012
    yeah that's due to flat badges
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,411
    edited April 20
    @Fluxxx
    I tested 10% Lethal weapon trait with and without damage badge on Abe, took his 22% LT damage bonus in consideration.

    Visually: looks like now Lethal adds 10% bonus to Total base damage (base dmg + weapon dmg without lethal) BEFORE Abe's LT and badge bonuses are applied. Therefore, Lethal does not give % boost to badge or LT damage. Visually at least.

    Is it true for Marksman and Strong as well? Is it only visual or NG intended it that way?

    Total Base dmg with 22% LT, no dmg badges, no lethal: 
    8720


    Total Base dmg without 22% LT, no dmg badges, no lethal:
    8720 ÷ 1.22 =~7147


    With 10% Lethal applied:
    7147 + (7147 x 0.22) + (7147 x 0.10) =~ 9434


    With 17% Dmg badge (no set bonus), no lethal:
    7147 + (7147 x 0.22) + (7147 x 0.17) =~ 9935


    With 17% dmg badge (no set bonus), 10% Lethal:
    7147 + (7147 x 0.22) + (7147 x 0.17) + (7147 x 0.10) =~ 10649



    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • FluxxxFluxxx Staff Posts: 1,085
    edited April 20
    Ok upon further investigation it seems to be a UI issue only - your damage in combat should be correct (higher).
    What happened here, is that the damage boosting traits do not take into account the increased damage from weapon upgrades.

    Example:

    Strong: +10% total damage

    So if you had an un-upgraded weapon equipped, the displayed total damage should be correct, let's say it's 1000.
    Now, you upgrade the weapon, and the damage goes up by 100. Now, taking into consideration this UI issue, total damage shows as 1100, whereas the correct amount would be 1110, because Strong also applies to that extra damage that you got form the update.

    EDIT: Seems there might be more to it than what I outlined above, so we'll continue to investigate.
    ShadowWalkerLe_Mat
  • paeaeaeschpaeaeaesch Member Posts: 83
    For me the updated values look correct, but the formula has changed, especially for flat badges, which are added to the base damage before the multipliers now, instead of just getting added at the end:

    Old Version: (Base DMG * (1+ Abe/Jesus Boost) + Weapon DMG * (1 +Strong + Lethal) + Flat Badges) * % Badges

    New Version: (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong + Lethal + % Badges) 


    Le_MatVovJedi
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,054
    Oh god, I regret clicking this thread now. Death by math :lol:.

    What I want to know is, should I try to get marksman back for Sasha? Is it now worth having? I don't need to know about strong as anyone who needs strong, still has it 💪.
    FuriousMoldovanFirekidDeathwish19SmokeandMirrors
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,411
    edited April 21
    @WellyLuga too early to say. Waiting for @Fluxxx with a final verdict on what new calculations are supposed to be, and visual vs actual values.

    The new way it's calculated and visualized at the moment - you get approx 1-2% total dmg boost by switching to Marksman, depending on how good your dmg badges are. The better your % badges are the lower overall total dmg boost (percentage-wise)
    Silly, I know.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • paeaeaeschpaeaeaesch Member Posts: 83
    WellyLuga said:
    Oh god, I regret clicking this thread now. Death by math :lol:.

    What I want to know is, should I try to get marksman back for Sasha? Is it now worth having? I don't need to know about strong as anyone who needs strong, still has it 💪.
    With marksman you had about 10k more damage before on charge attacks, now it should be about 15-20k, depending on level/badges. I like marksman over revenge on sasha, because especially sahsa with harpoon has lots of charge attacks and revenge often works only 2 times in high end maps, when the allies get one shot by 50+ walkers... 
    Fox2010
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,054
    Yeah that's my thoughts. She has 16,400 with the harpoon without marksman at 8*. A 17% boost to total damage should boost her above 19k. 

    I like revenge for the extra attacks for charging/kills and the boost from marksman was never worth considering changing it. The amount of time revenge breaks a struggle and leads to another hit/death has been ridiculous of late...
  • DaiikoDaiiko Member Posts: 149

    Je ne comprends pas pourquoi il y a que des pertes chez moi et encore je ne montre pas tous. Même mes chasseurs ont perdus en puissance.
  • DaiikoDaiiko Member Posts: 149
    Ps: Rick gagne en puissance
  • even after death Nigan still spread the mark, just tested on distance 
    ShadowWalker
  • DaiikoDaiiko Member Posts: 149
    Crocodile said:
    even after death Nigan still spread the mark, just tested on distance 
    Oui c'est normale, si tu met Sasha et elle meurt en cours de missions, tes soldats continueront à ce charger grâce à elle.
  • Daiiko said:
    Crocodile said:
    even after death Nigan still spread the mark, just tested on distance 
    Oui c'est normale, si tu met Sasha et elle meurt en cours de missions, tes soldats continueront à ce charger grâce à elle.

    pas tout à fait, le trait de leadership de Sasha est donné à toute l'équipe, mais le trait de leadership de Negan n'est pas 
  • FluxxxFluxxx Staff Posts: 1,085
    Just checkin in -
    Our team is also looking into some other reports at the moment, so I will hopefully be able to give you guys an update on this either tomorrow or Friday!
    FuriousMoldovanFox2010BustaTwoface
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,411
    Fluxxx said:
    Just checkin in -
    Our team is also looking into some other reports at the moment, so I will hopefully be able to give you guys an update on this either tomorrow or Friday!
    @Fluxxx it's Friday :smile:
    Some people are sitting on reroll tokens for Revenge > Marksman waiting for your feedback on what new calculations are supposed to be vs how it's shown now.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    Twoface[Deleted User]
  • MojakuMojaku Member Posts: 166
    Good Morning,

    Any news @Fluxxx?
    TwofaceFuriousMoldovan
  • FluxxxFluxxx Staff Posts: 1,085
    edited April 28
    Hi 🙉 
    The cause of the lower/nearly unchanged damage values is as @paeaeaesch pointed out - %-badges used to be one of the only boosts to total damage, but as we switched a lot of these traits to total damage, their multiplier was included with badges (so they stack together additively).
    Simply put, in the old implementation we used to have a bigger number with a smaller multiplier, due to the fact that traits like Marksman applied before badges. Whereas now, we have a smaller number with a bigger multiplier, resulting in roughly the same damage values.

    This is of course not what we intended to do by introducing this change, so we've been looking into and testing an altered formula that would actually result in higher damage values, by having badges boost your damage at the end.

    So the current formula after the update is:
    (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong + Lethal + % Badges)
    and the one we're testing now is
    (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong + Lethal) * (1 + % Badges)

    This change should hopefully be included in an update, most likely sometime this week. Other than this, the update focuses on bug fixes related to Negan's trait :) 
    FuriousMoldovanShadowWalkerPasteJediBurmeliinis
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,411
    @Fluxxx
    I assume the formulas will apply to Marksman as well, you haven't mentioned it.

    (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong/Marksman + Lethal) * (1 + % Badges)

    Correct?
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    ShadowWalkerPaste[Deleted User]
  • Fox2010Fox2010 Member Posts: 15
    edited April 28
    @Fluxxx
    Why are you still using flat badges with such problems (problems in preview, formulas) in game instead of change them all, in all accounts to similar quality percentage badges?
    They cannot be create any more - what's the point in such a mess?
    [Deleted User]
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,152
    I am sure it is because many lower level players who play without taking advantage of the flat badges would be upset with the significant amount of damage the would lose.  I know on my 2nd account I have many flat rate badges on my heroes and I would lose much damage if they swapped out.  FYI I dont have a low level high damage account to play specifically in GW.
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  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 844
    Then give all the players an upgrade booster and free crafting pack and put up an in-game link to crafting videos. Update the game, say here's your free crap, then everything is fine.

    Plug the leaking hole.
    RiotZappa
  • they add LvL 3 Craftsman in next big update where you can craft flat badges to boost BASE damage and grab more money 
  • Fluxxx said:

    (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong + Lethal + % Badges)
    and the one we're testing now is
    (Base DMG + Weapon DMG + Flat Badges) * (1 + Abe/Jesus Boost + Strong + Lethal) * (1 + % Badges)


    @Fluxxx

    Your formula doesn't work in combat
    It only works in the character selection menu
    My characters in the character selection menu show the following damage values
    Daryl 6896
    Michonne 6740
    Beta 6562
    But in combat, the non crit and non body shot damage is much smaller at ranges from 5,000 to 5800
    This corresponds to the damage I had before the update Hot Lead
    it not work after hot lead update and still not work after today small update
    look in to more carefully 
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,054
    I think I will avoid the aneurysm and keep revenge over marksman on Sasha. At least until this is ironed out as it is as clear as mud :lol:
    FuriousMoldovanNerfZone187ATLAS-Z
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