Yumiko - Is she overpowered

WellyLuga

If you don't like using a particular team then don't use it. There are many other options available to you, play a game for fun rather than focusing on the leaderboard.

Firekid

Unless you want to be competitive because you know your competition will be using that team. 

ADPaq

What if the competition uses lots of tools, gold or special weapons?

Like I said previously, Yumiko is great for pretty much everyone but a handful of the super elite who don't like the current situation.

xbamfx

Who is yumiko? 

ATLAS-Z

Arqueue said:

when someone gives you a Ferrari 812, you dont go around complaining that its too fast and powerful on the roads

When they were winning the race in a Chevy Spark, then NGs gives everyone a free Ferrari?

This would be a more accurate analogy.

But me, I love my Ferrari. 

ThanosOfTitan

We should not change her because a few top top players think she is overpowered the majority of players will not be scoring 4 k plus a challenge and to them she is not over powered unless you are going to spend big bucks powering her up then what difference does she actually make? I have not used her once this challenge. 

Firekid

@ThanosOfTitan I’ve got to disagree with you here. If a player has a 2 pink Sasha and a 2 pink princess then pretty much anyone would be able to get to 4K with that team most weeks. You don’t need to be a top top player and that’s the issue. Also you don’t need to power her up at all. Having her as epic is just as good as 5 pink. I’m fact a lot of people are purposely not powering her up as you don’t want her to actually kill anything. 

I’m not a top top player but because of her I was able to finish the challenge 3 weeks in a row and the last two perfectly. There is no way at all I could have done that without her. 

Would appear I’m in the minority here so I’ll keep taking advantage of it until we get a 100 way tie on the global leaderboards (half way there this week 👍) and NG decide something might need to change. 

FuriousMoldovan

@Firekid
I guess it's my turn to disagree. Even with 2 pink Sasha and Princess you have to be pretty good at what you do to push 4k. And it also depends on the Challenge and weekly event as well.
Remember charged assaults Challenge not long ago? Over half global leaderboard with max scores, I wasn't even close to top 100 with 4.6k and it was before Yumiko.
Also remember Country Roads? Oh yeah, everyone was Counting Their Blessings 😆 I got to top 50 with only 3.7k and nobody had max score. And it was with Yumiko.
The World didn't end then and it won't end now 😏

My point is, yes - Yumiko made ranged teams more fun AND certain maps easier. BUT so did others when they came out like Princess, Beta, SRick, HDaryl, HMaggie, RGG, Shane, Sasha, Eugene, PGG.....
We should not ask to nerf good heroes or we'll be left with Hunter Daryl, Rosita, Governor team sweating over +10 missions.

[Deleted User]

Firekid said:

 as you don’t want her to actually kill anything. 

I'm want that she actually kill everything  

Firekid

@FuriousMoldovan, charged assault example is a good one. The reason being is a charged assault is one of the most powerful classes is the game and is what makes yumiko so overpowered. Having a charged assault not just at the start but every single turn is why we are seeing so many huge scores. Maybe I was a little over the top with 4000 but until nightmare I honestly believe there are about 3-4 maps out there that can’t be completed relatively easily with the SPY team. The other thing it’s doing is making the maps which were really tough before (out in the open and point of entry this week) a lot easier. There used to be at least one map each week that would be the “stopper” it doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. 

Count your blessing example is also good, I believe it was the first challenge set we had after unlocking her and people were still figuring out how to use her and nearly ever video I saw at high level of people clearing it were doing it with that team. It was ridiculously hard, is that what we want then, maps which a huge spike in difficult to offset an overpowered team? 

A slight change in her leadertrait so that it only allows a maximum of 1 charge point to be gained when hitting with firing squad. She’d still be useful particularly for those times when you’ve missed 1 charge point from your attack. It would still be possible to get fully charged when using her but she would have to be in lead but you couldn’t be charged every turn. 

Hell I’d even go for having her leader trait give a chance of a charge point from firing squad (but no chance of Sasha or princess leader traits kicking in from firing squad) similar to existing mechanics. That way she’d be useful for all range survivors rather than just two. 

Maybe nerf is the wrong word and balance would be better. Everyone saying it’s made range great again. It hasn’t it just made an existing great range team even better. 

ThanosOfTitan

@Firekid I see the top 50 all hit the same score this week, (is this because of yumiko ? ) including you however us mere mortals or me anyway 😀 never get anywhere near that I hit just over 2700 this week with free gas as you know I am f2p mainly though 

[Deleted User]

Firekid said:

A slight change in her leadertrait so that it only allows a maximum of 1 charge point to be gained when hitting with firing squad. 

кайфоломщик

ADPaq

We can clearly see from the rankings that even when a "large" number of the best hit the max, we're still talking about circa 50 players in the ENTIRE WORLD.

Now, admittedly I do not know the total number of active players or how many have and use Yumiko, but the fact remains that only a very small number of players hit max each week compared to the player base.

This week - 56 players hit max

Last week - 32 player hit max

I'm on the UK leader board and you can see that only 4 players hit max with a 1,000 point drop off at position 16 and a whopping 1,800 at position 30.

This suggests that it's not just an auto win team but rather a team with enough skill and knowledge of the game mechanics to maximise its efficacy.

But all of this is academic as we are each free to use any team we want, and many of us would like to continue to use Yumiko as is and do not find her overpowered.

FuriousMoldovan

@Firekid
Sorry, I agree with you on some points but can't agree on everything.
Then using your logic we should limit everyone on the team with lead LT of Sasha, Princess, Beta on herding to only 1 charge point per turn. It's counterproductive to pleasant gameplay.
I think Yumiko is great as is, especially for newer players since her LT works great at unlock and will allow them to score higher, enjoy game more, play longer, and maybe attract more players. And this will benefit us all in the longer run by keeping NML alive and diversifying guilds and GW

IcePeter

Some of us are still struggling with the clutch on our new Ferrari, so she’s spending a lot of time in the shop. Just because the pros could hit 4000 with our teams doesn’t mean we can do the same with their teams. Some of us also don’t have the patience for the “stun and creep” methodology. I think she’s had a bigger impact for the top players than for the lower 99%, with some exceptions. 

Firekid

I know what you mean @FuriousMoldovan but each of those hero’s can only charge you on their own turn and beta is the only one who can let you gain a charge point and then attack with it and is not possible to become fully charged from nothing and attack on his turn (not including tools)  So her leader trait would be more akin to his leader trait which I believe would give the right sort of balance. The only other leader trait which allows you to use a charge attack and be fully charged the next turn is Morgan and I suppose Sasha if someone gets hit and you revenge but have to take hits to do so which again balances it. If people honestly can’t see that having a constantly charged assault is overpowered in a game where charge attacks are fundamental to success then I’m not sure what more to say. 

WellyLuga

To be honest, in their quest to be innovative and keeping the game interesting this was bound to happen eventually. Stronger weapons, powerful LTs, tools, whatever else - eventually our teams were going to become so powerful that nothing would really be a challenge anymore. 

Count your blessings was a broken, imbalanced mess and that's what it takes to be a stopper with what we have now. Horrible and so far from fun. LMGs, deadly spikes, chainsaws - fun but don't do much for stars so don't generate money. The game was broken when flares were introduced. The things which make you crazy powerful, that's what makes the money and that's what they will strive for until the game sunsets.

At least Yumiko was free...

Firekid

Just want to add in case it wasn’t fully realised but my idea for her giving a chance of a charge point for firing squad attacks actually makes her more powerful for all ranged teams. People are saying make ranged great again and I think it would do. With her in lead you still have the chance of getting all people fully charged, your also getting 6 extra attacks each turn. A team of yumiko, Haggie and Shane could be devastating if one had cripple and one had flare. Basically a cripple flare gun with a chance to charge up. It would give more versatility to teams which could be used at high level. Shove rick in lead with Sasha and yumiko and charge points would fly all over the place. Range really could be great again.

FuriousMoldovan

@Firekid
Hey, I still think that Yumiko is not overpowered. Agree that she doesn't add value to melee team, but we have plenty of very powerful melees and it wasn't her purpose to start with.

When it comes to constantly charged assaults argument - it's never been a problem. Before Yumiko, it was always Sasha + 2 assaults for me to achive that. And there you have - constantly charged assault every turn without Yumiko.
She just added chances of extra charge for Sasha, charging assault before the first turn (instead of after first turn), and cripple/burn. More versatility, more fun. She's not any more overpowered than Sasha or Shane. If any out of these 3, then it's probably Sasha 😏

FuriousMoldovan

Let's vote for nerfing Sasha!
Just kidding, don't get any ideas 😂😇

[Deleted User]

FuriousMoldovan said:

Let's vote for nerfing Sasha!
Just kidding, don't get any ideas 😂😇

I'm not use Sasha, agree that she must be nerfing to only one charge point per move

brucewayne007

Yumi’s LT needs a tweak. 

Instead of having both characters react, the game should only allow the closest toon react to her LT so therefore prevent both spare characters being charged up so easily. 

This still allows her use, but also limits how strong she is just a tad. 

Gothgul

What about tools? Sure there were 50 ppl with perfect scores, but how many didn't use tools to get there? SPY may make it easier, but tools make it possible. I'm not saying nerf tools or Yumi or anything,  just that its not the only reason. 

FuriousMoldovan

@Gothgul that's a valid point. I usually use tools veeery sparingly and save them for GW but some Challenge maps are just impassable after certain point without tools, no matter what team you choose, aside from dozens of Retries and ton of gold on healing. But that's another story though.

Virtus

@Firekid - I think you're missing the larger point here with Yumiko.  She is the great equalizer.  The goal is to have everyone finish at 4878 every week.  After all, the great movement of our times is to produce equality of outcomes, and Yumiko furthers that goal better than other heroes.  If everyone ties for first, there are no losers, only winners.  Why would anyone argue against that?  Only someone selfish would want more stars than that.  NG has determined in their wisdom that 4878 stars is the perfect amount for each player.  Why question that?  Soon we will all participate in the glorious perfection of 4878, where we will all be equals and all winners.  Do not trouble yourself with these notions of scoring more stars than your fellow players.  Everyone should have a fair shot at 4878, whether with Yumiko or a pile of tools.

dalmer

FuriousMoldovan said:

@Firekid
When it comes to constantly charged assaults argument - it's never been a problem. Before Yumiko, it was always Sasha + 2 assaults for me to achive that. And there you have - constantly charged assault every turn without Yumiko.

It's so false, that just stupid...
With Sasha + 2 assaults on most of the maps you were struggling after second turn (or first if you prefer).

Firekid

Think we will have to agree to disagree @FuriousMoldovan last thing I’ll comment on though is your comment “more versatility more fun”. This is just not true, now there is no point in using a different team than SPY (because it’s the most effective) so it’s actually less versatility. Thanks for the discussion though valid points all round! 👍

[Deleted User]

Firekid said:

Think we will have to agree to disagree @FuriousMoldovan last thing I’ll comment on though is your comment “more versatility more fun”. This is just not true, now there is no point in using a different team than SPY (because it’s the most effective) so it’s actually less versatility. Thanks for the discussion though valid points all round! 👍

last thing l'll comment on though is your comment "no point in using a different team than SPY"
I'm using YPA team
thanks for the discussion (how to get big finger up?) 

WellyLuga

Good to see SPY catching on eh @ATLAS-Z

ATLAS-Z

@WellyLuga

It was inevitable. I won't take credit lol.

@FuriousMoldovan

That's one of the most attractive things about the SPY combo, you can walk in with no charges.... Yumi can trigger princess free attack and become instantly charged (before she's even used her attack).

On dual assaults, you need that first free round to get charged up.