⚔️ Guild Wars BETA ⚔️ - Moving Forward

ATLAS-Z

What steps need to be taken to get guild wars out of Beta?

And what kind of things would we like to see changed, improved, added, or scrapped?

Just a few from me

#1) PvP RP award improved, from 20 to 30 RP

#2) Matchmaking Improvements

#3) Draw multiplier for Double perfect
bumped to x1.5

#4) Identify Spawn / bodypile - yes/no on 
 pre-mission screen

Let's keep feedback constructive and helpful, and let's get this done. 

ShadowWalker

One thing I would like to see is an improvement to the way we can earn class bonuses. Pretty much everybody ignores the bonus sectors because they're not worth doing. Which is sad, because it could actually help make other teams more viable at higher levels.

Why not get rid of the bonus sectors and give smaller class bonuses for completing regular sectors? For example, if you complete 17A then Warriors deal 20% more damage, complete 17B maybe Bruisers get more health. If you complete another sector with a Warrior damage bonus then they can stack.

Also, allow us to toggle bonuses on or off before going into maps. This way if you get something like; Assaults 20% less chance of body shot, then you can turn it off and still use SMY.

ghost_pepper

ShadowWalker said:

One thing I would like to see is an improvement to the way we can earn class bonuses. Pretty much everybody ignores the bonus sectors because they're not worth doing. Which is sad, because it could actually help make other teams more viable at higher levels.

Why not get rid of the bonus sectors and give smaller class bonuses for completing regular sectors? For example, if you complete 17A then Warriors deal 20% more damage, complete 17B maybe Bruisers get more health. If you complete another sector with a Warrior damage bonus then they can stack.

Also, allow us to toggle bonuses on or off before going into maps. This way if you get something like; Assaults 20% less chance of body shot, then you can turn it off and still use SMY.

This is brilliant. I support this 100%.

Both teams get the same randomly assigned bonuses on the same islands. This is just like how both teams get the same randomly assigned walker missions. The maps and island bonuses match for both teams. 

The bonuses for the C sectors could be slightly stronger versions of the regular bonuses. Instead of +10% bruiser HP for regular A and B sectors, it could be +15% bruiser HP (or +20%) for completing a C sector. 

The point of all of this is that strategically opening and closing islands in certain orders would possibly help teams to play higher or play more successfully and robustly as they progress throughout the war. This may bring about tactical decision making about what order to do things in.

It is very important to point something out. The bonuses will continue not to matter for the strongest teams who will continue their dominant play on the score board. These bonuses will help the mid-range players. The casual teams that may make it out of gold or may not will be able to push their islands just a bit, get more points, and regardless of wins and losses be able to rank higher and unlock more stuff in the shop.

Burmeliinis

Add star hero to GW (and make it work correctly)

Elsbeth

Beta wars …  the island sectors with the 3rd a higher score is ok with our Guild.  This helps the Guild work together.  We get the synergy going (lol) but I’ve posted we lose a lot.  

We play some Guilds who have amazing scores … like 600 to our 300-500’s. I’d like to see that if you lose in war 1, you play a loser in war2. If you win in war1 you play a winner in war 2 And so on for war 3 and 4.  That will shake things up.  

ATLAS-Z

Elsbeth said:

Beta wars …  the island sectors with the 3rd a higher score is ok with our Guild.  This helps the Guild work together.  We get the synergy going (lol) but I’ve posted we lose a lot.  

We play some Guilds who have amazing scores … like 600 to our 300-500’s. I’d like to see that if you lose in war 1, you play a loser in war2. If you win in war1 you play a winner in war 2 And so on for war 3 and 4.  That will shake things up.  

This is kinda brilliant 

@Lexia I don't know how realistic it is on the coding end, but making matchmaking more likely to pair previous day winners to other winners (when possible) and previous day losers to other losers (when possible) within the same bracket could be very intuitive and helpful? 

Paste

The win bonus already have that effect, but less direct.

ATLAS-Z

Yeah I had that thought @Paste

ATLAS-Z

@zbot any chance you can pin this in guild wars channel? 

Burmeliinis

Limit the available heroes during one week of the 4-week season, so that you are forced to use something else than Sasha + 2 others. So similar to expert mode in LS, but everyone has to play it. Would spice things up, and would reward good players as well as players with a wide variety of well upgraded heroes.

FuriousMoldovan

Matchmaking improvements that promote fair matchings and prevent "burner" guilds.
I'll keep posting it @Lexia until the message goes through
https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/441511/#Comment_441511

Lexia

Haha, it went through a while back already

I've noted your suggestion (and others as well) already for further discussion with the team

Karajoca

I never cared if this mode is called Beta,Gama, Delta...whatever, as long as it works perfectly.
But it never worked perfectly and if that is the goal to achieve before moving forward they are MILES OFF that standard.

I don't know how my comment will sound to NG Staff but it truly is a FRIENDLY critics. 

I understand all the bugs, errors that happened in the past. Most critical ones were server related, unpredictable.


Example : 
Beginner guilds facing top guilds in week1
Solution : let's add phantom 40k VP to guilds who reached master tier last season. That should be enough.
Reality : Guilds merge, disband, start new guilds intentionally or unintentionally -doesn't matter. Problem isn't fixed completely. But fairness and Leaderboard is messed up totally! 
And this is working like that for like 5,6 seasons, people constantly complain - you ignore and do nothing

All this because, you want to put all guilds that exist in game into one basket. It's like adults competing with kids, seniors vs juniors.
Like it or not, you have advanced and beginner guilds here and have to threat them separately. Is it that hard ? I am sure there is a way. You just don't want to start over. Keep building on something that is designed bad from beginning.

Tiers ? Completely pointless. Why we have them ?  They can be used, but not like this. Currently they do nothing important.

Perfect maximum scores and ties in battles. That should be impossible, not something what 50+ guilds can achieve at least once per week. (But that's problem in all game modes currently)

Except this i personally would like to see fee more things ASAP : 

1. Island(s) where most used heroes are forbidden to use (similar to what you are doing to Last Stand- Expert Mode)
2. If not possible to do (1.) Find way to implement Star hero
3. New map designs
4. From time to time little changes to format to shake things a bit, make guilds re-calculate
5. Find ways to bring back some strategy to this mode except pure killing zombies and simple coordination
6.PlayOff system- extra week for top32 or 64 guilds
7. Trophies/ in game-history - so our effort stay written

Feel free to object or correct me if i am wrong with anything here. Thanks for listening

Lexia

I appreciate the comment @Karajoca, but I did have to remove some parts of your message since they really weren't constructive or friendly. Please keep the Forum guidelines and rules in mind when communicating on the Forum.

Steeboon

1. A star beside the guild name on the leaderboard to identity the top 3 guilds of the previous season. 

2. Separate hospital for GW mode.

3. Draw multipler effect for RP to be increased to 1.5, VP multipler can remain at 1.25 alike sports competitions where draws are given lesser points as compared to wins.

4. New redemption items in GW shop (1-4 stars components)

5. Use the average/total VP of all the players for match making in Week 1. Game already has data for the overall VP for each player at the end of each season, maybe this will prevent burner guilds from bashing through junior guilds and make them face bot guilds instead. 

FuriousMoldovan

Persistent GW Leaderboard would be a big improvement - make it for both current season and previous season, just like Challenges LB.

Separate GW hospital heal times (or reduced healing) for GW are desperately needed, especially for developing guilds. Now everyone is pretty much forced to use gold to heal, since heal time is over 2 hours, battle is 22 hours, 18 swords to use - math is not in their favor.

ghost_pepper

I would like to see the shop rebalanced a bit. I would like to see the low end items cost less so the more casual players have better buying power with their reward points. I would also like to see the lower end heros tokens cost less. Merle doesn't matter to most of us here on the forum but that's big for the newer players and the casuals.

I would also like to see both tools and gold components come down in price. Maybe make the first ones cost much less, the 2nd cost a little more, the 3rd one cost the current price, the 4th and final cost a little more than the current price. If you can stagger the pricing like this, more players will have access to buy more things.

Paste

Elsbeth said:

Beta wars …  the island sectors with the 3rd a higher score is ok with our Guild.  This helps the Guild work together.  We get the synergy going (lol) but I’ve posted we lose a lot.  

We play some Guilds who have amazing scores … like 600 to our 300-500’s. I’d like to see that if you lose in war 1, you play a loser in war2. If you win in war1 you play a winner in war 2 And so on for war 3 and 4.  That will shake things up.  

In a different thread I suggested to replace the tier reset system with win rate bots. Basically a condition that would trigger if the guilds win rate gets too low (I suggested 30%), and match you with one of the "bots" they have now with a fixed score to beat instead of a real guild with a hidden/moving score. How would you feel about that? I think guilds who have the lowest win rates now need the GW reward points the most, and they would probably value this more than the pride that comes with fighting real guilds. But I'm not in one of these guilds so it'd be good to get input.

wms

The match ups in this war 4 is worse than usual.  We have guild members that are happy to reach 300s.  There's a few of us that can hit in the lower 600s.  Yesterday and today we have played/ are playing against people hitting the 800s.  You would think our match up would be against individuals that also scores at these levels.  Usually i expect war 1 and sometimes 2 to be mismatched, but to be closer matched in later games.  
We have a diverse group of stronger and weak players.  If our strongest players sign up together, we could maybe get a score in the 5000. If our weaker  players sign up together the final score could be around 2 or 3 thousand.  I imagine there are teams so focused on winning, a weaker or newer player would not be able to stay in those guilds or even be accepted.  I just don't see a way to get matched teams in a war when starting with such mismatched individuals in guilds.    There are causal players to hard cord 'will do anything to win'  players.  I thought maybe having a professional guild war and a more causal one, but then there would be competitive people joining weaker causal war just so they can have an easy win.  

ShadowWalker

ShadowWalker said:

One thing I would like to see is an improvement to the way we can earn class bonuses. Pretty much everybody ignores the bonus sectors because they're not worth doing. Which is sad, because it could actually help make other teams more viable at higher levels.

Why not get rid of the bonus sectors and give smaller class bonuses for completing regular sectors? For example, if you complete 17A then Warriors deal 20% more damage, complete 17B maybe Bruisers get more health. If you complete another sector with a Warrior damage bonus then they can stack.

Also, allow us to toggle bonuses on or off before going into maps. This way if you get something like; Assaults 20% less chance of body shot, then you can turn it off and still use SMY.

I think I came up with a better idea than my previous suggestion that I posted above. Smaller bonuses, stacking bonuses and toggling them off might be too complicated to implement. Also, people will probably still just use SMY most of the time anyway. 

Here is my new idea:

1. Still get rid of those bonus sectors.

2. Each sector has it's own class bonus. Perhaps there can be an additional smaller bonus for the entire Island.

3. Each sector will also have a class that you can't use at all.

So for example, imagine you log in to Guild Wars and 20A has a class bonus of +50% Scout damage and no Assaults are allowed. 20B then maybe has +25% less chance of body shots for Hunters and no Warriors allowed. 20C then might have +25% less chance of body shot for Bruisers and no Shooters allowed. The bonuses and excluded classes will be the same for all teams playing on the same day.

This could shake things up quite a bit. Players will potentially have to use other strategies, and guilds may have to actually consider if they can complete 20. 

ghost_pepper

I would like to see a spot where players can see the total amount of reward points they've earned as an individual all season long. All we have is current unused amount. Players have to not spend it at all to see by the end of the season what their individual total is. This seems rediculous. Just give us the current all season total on some screen somewhere! How else can we see how we're progressing etc or make decisions about who does the silly hk's in the last week and who does the kaw's?

We see an individual score total score board for the guild at the end of the season, which runs contrary to the team play idea. How about have a full board showing every player in the guilds gp and rp totals? 

Paste

ghost_pepper said:

I would like to see a spot where players can see the total amount of reward points they've earned as an individual all season long.

You can if you figure out how much you spent in the guild shop (which isn't terribly hard). If you wait to spend until after GW it's even easier.

FuriousMoldovan

You can see it at the end of each GW week to the right of GW planner. Screenshot each week and sum it up

ghost_pepper

Season summary. I don't wanna start doing big digit addition in addition to playing, the big addiction. 

ZXer

Star hero in GW will be problematic for the same reasons it is problematic in challenge, and more

1. It does not encourage diversification - it will only force people into sHero-Princess(or Mercer)-Yumiko. It takes less skill and more $$$. Unskilled people can still complete the mission provided they pay enough to get Mercer 5 pinked and then pay some more for all the fancy weapons like bulldozers and fire crossbow pistol. As in challenge, I'd suggest a lockup rather than star hero.

2. Unlike challenge, you don't know the map you're going into. So, even more all the reasons for sH-P/M-Y formation. 

Put star hero in GW and that will be nail in the coffin for me. I will completely stop playing.

ZXer

And rather than limit available heroes as @Burmeliinis suggested, I'd suggest a lockup. 18 missions per battle, so maybe a lockup for each hero after being played 3 times

ZXer

And I suggested improvement on PvP overall

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/49136/suggestion-to-improve-pvp-human-enemy-play-in-guild-wars#latest

ZXer

@ATLAS-Z @Paste @wms

The problem may not be that the matchmaking does not work - most guilds with more uniform strength seem to get close to 50-50 performance.

The ways to score more wins seem to be related to (intentionally or not) find ways to avoid meeting stronger or equally strong guilds. This is easy to do now there is data in public domain to observe what other guilds are doing.

For top guilds, this means never play teams of 8 and teams of 6. You know from past data they almost always go with teams of 8 and teams of 6, rarely with teams of 7, almost never with teams of 10, 9, or 5 and fewer.

For mid tier guilds, this means play MORE often teams of 6 or fewer.

You cannot improve matchmaking and force "Sweden" with teams of 9 to play WW or TLOU or RIH with teams of 6.

Paste

@ZXer Don't say "most guilds". You don't know most guilds. Most guilds will never read anything here Line or Discord, or figure these things out by themselves. What you're talking about is probably less than the top 1%

ghost_pepper

Groups don't need document data on socres and teams to try to figure out how not to face them. The matching is done with gw score.

ZXer

@Paste “most guilds” come from the data sampling from the history of guild wars - and my limited knowledge from traveling guilds and alt guilds that I know.

yes, I know they are very limited sampling, but it does seem like if you don’t actively try to game the system - which  should be good enough assumption for “most guilds” ……. Their win rate is very close to 50-50 in last season (excluding the 1st week, where it seems like they don’t go by history data except for the soft reset)

Which I assume 50-50 is the target if you have perfect matchmaking (I.e. you are always matched with guilds at exactly your level). Unless the idea for great matchmaking is something else.