Suggestion to Improve PvP (Human Enemy) play in Guild Wars

ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
As we all know, PvP play in GW right now is more like gap filler that nobody really wants to do. It's low point and for the most part is not challenging at all UNLESS as I just found out - new players like myself playing for top guild having to face well setup PvP defenders. Then it gets challenging and interesting.

What I have learnt here is that attack at +5 defenders are guaranteed bodyshots (which means bruisers can't stun, and attacks have significantly reduced damage). Attacks FROM +5 defenders are guaranteed critical, which means Critical Aim will activate quite often.

Then it gets interesting when defenders all have 5 pinks, lucky traits in weapon and survivor, and all have revenge and retaliate traits. Any one attack to any defenders now could result in 3 retaliate and revenge shots laced with Critical Aim and Lucky. Boom. Stuns will result.

OK - so here's the idea.

Right now survivor levels are equalized in Guild War PvP but not pink levels and traits level. So for the vast majority of people - PvP is a joke. Most people with 1 pink will face off with guilds that also have 1-2 pink max. In some occasions they'll also face off with 4 pink defenders but in crappy guild where they put crap defenders with crap traits, so it is still a joke. So the current system only works to penalize the less than 1% of players who are good enough to be able to join top guild despite their rudimentary survivors.

Why not equalize everything including the pink levels. Anyone who own 3 or more survivors with 5 pinks SHALL face off with defenders with 5 pinks and maximum trait levels. Anyone who own 3 or more survivors with 4 pinks shall face off with defenders with 4 pinks and corresponding traits level.

Then at the very top level, defenders should even be propped up. For example, islands 12-19-20 should all have defender level at +5 pinks (so if attacker has 5 pinks, defenders will have 10 pinks or call it 5 golden or whatever). Islands 11-18 should have defender level at +4, and islands 10-17 should have defenders at +3. And so on.

Then increase the RP and VP for those level.

This will make PvP battles in Guild War a lot more interesting.

EVEN BETTER: the pink adjustment could be based on the lowest denominator (i.e., players with fewer pinks in the battle). So now rather than penalizing the few very good new players, you are incentivizing every guild to recruit not just veteran players, but also newcomers. This will improve the game engagement and help new player recruitment and retention, which will be positive to NG's revenue model.

Comments

  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
    edited December 2021
    Lowest denominator adjustment should work like the following

    If in that particular battle day, the weakest player has no more than 2 survivors at 3 pinks and no survivor at 4 or 5 pinks, then the base PvP defender pink levels is 2 pinks

    At the very top level, say, island 12-19-20, then PvP defenders will have 2 pinks + 5 = 7 pinks. This will be quite challenging for that weakest player, but if strongest player at that guild has 5 pinks, then playing 7 pinks defenders will be a piece of cake (no guaranteed bodyshot / crits at 2 pink differential)

    But if every player on that day has 3 or more survivors at 5 pinks, then PvP defenders will all have 10 pinks. This will make PvP battle very risky for everyone.

    This will mean 2 things:

    1. "Dedicated human killer" strategy no longer works. It will be risky to relegate your weakest player on "human duty". Then every guild will have to be both strategic and tactical in tackling the entire GW maps.

    2. It will be advantageous for every guild to recruit at least 1 player at low pink level for each day it plays Guild Wars. This incentivize top guilds to reserve some spots for newcomers.
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,162
    Good ideas, with a few tweaks pvp could become really interesting!

    Another idea could be to remove walkers altogether from the pvp maps. The defenders often get distracted by them, and the attacker can get easy charges from them, so by removing them you force the defenders to concentrate on the attacking team instead.
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  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
    I really like @Burmeliinis additional point.

    Right now walkers tend to favor attackers and distract defenders unnecessarily. But since attackers can be properly badged and defenders are unbadged, it is hard for defenders to kill properly badged attackers without walkers help.

    Another idea would be to spawn walkers only at attackers' half, and make them spawn at exponentially higher and higher level.

  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    Would be the same humans killers would be who have less pink Stars. No middle do island 20 or 19 and the ones who does won't care facing full Star survivor.

    Don't know with walkers are you facing when I go to humans more walkers are around me than with Defenders
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
    @pollorex no, not necessarily. Only very few top guilds got dedicated human killers - and these are not exactly top guilds anyway IMHO. Most top guilds which are truly top guilds have very good 20 players and they usually share pvp duties among all 20.

    as for spawn locations - they vary. Some maps give more spawn around attackers, some are more balanced, and many of these spawns are distracting to AI defenders
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    edited January 3
    So you mean a guild with 20 good player will only do highest map and let the humans there without college the Island reward?
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    I guess this can be better instead of humans to defense chance for:
    4 elite maps where only be elite walkers  and obviously highest reward for those 4 maps


  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,087
    I say pvps are fine as they are, no need to overcomplicate something that works just fine.
    Let's not forget that beginner/intermediate players find pvPs much more challenging vs doing lower lvl pvZ, NML is not comprised of endgamers only :)

    Better to increase pvp RP from 20 to 30 to make it worthwhile and less of a chore - this would have much more positive impact across the board ;)
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  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
    @pollorex in a guild of 20 good players then PvP humans are undesirable byproduct that awards very low RP

    The elite maps would serve similar purpose in place of PvP for islands 12, 19, 20 as you suggested.

    But I think more challenging PvP can be more fun than just PvZ everywhere
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 144
    edited January 4
    @FuriousMoldovan my proposal would even up the field a little (though not by much) for beginner and intermediate players. Only at high islands the PvP difficulty (and RP) will go up.

    Increasing the RP will make it less of an "appearance" of a chore, but it is still a chore regardless.

    You should try playing 5 pink negan using no pink attackers. Trust me - it's fun.
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    I say pvps are fine as they are, no need to overcomplicate something that works just fine.
    Let's not forget that beginner/intermediate players find pvPs much more challenging vs doing lower lvl pvZ, NML is not comprised of endgamers only :)

    Better to increase pvp RP from 20 to 30 to make it worthwhile and less of a chore - this would have much more positive impact across the board ;)
    Yeah i didn't know why some people think make middle level more difficult would make a good change to them
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,392
    edited January 4
    Just wait till the PvP attack army faces Guardian Carol defending, equipped with her starbound rifle.

    It's gonna be... Ugly. 


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  • IcePeterIcePeter Member Posts: 402
    Like IrateMuldovan said, increasing points from 20 to 30 is likely the easiest fix to at least make these feel worthwhile. Those stuck with human duty are guaranteed a maximum of 360 points while others are free to more than double that total and get more rewards. I don’t think a total overhaul of human maps is worth anybody’s time. Just me, perhaps. 
    FuriousMoldovanATLAS-Z
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,087
    IcePeter said:
    Like IrateMuldovan said....
    ..
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  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,162
    Vs. a 5 pink Negan with good traits. x2 bruisers and a shooter. Take your time. Allow spawned walkers to take up the map if possible and thus his marks. Use Flare Gun and burn him from a distance. Don't worry about the walkers spawning at your same level. They don't matter at all as long as you have 80 dr and some health badges.

    If that doesn't work, kill the other 2 defenders as quickly as possible. Then you can appropriately min-max your teams damage going out and damage coming in on each turn.

    And feel free to use a health pack if you need to. There are very few other sensible chances to use health packs.
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