🎰 Survivor Traits Rerolling 🎲 🔁 ♾️

FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
edited April 11 in Suggestions & Ideas
Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
@Lexia @Fluxxx

Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
echonaproganrushrichYikesghost_pepperVersyseMrLuckyiosononeganNovellShadowWalkerNatsuDarkdonampollorexRaiderDaveRiotZappaStalker20
«1

Comments

  • echonapechonap Member Posts: 136
    Yikes said:
    How about offering a more expensive reroll option where you can spend 100 reroll tokens (instead of 50) and get a choice of 4 traits to choose from instead of 2?  It still wouldn’t be 100% but the odds of getting what you want would be a lot better. 

    I would use the 50 tokens options when I have 2 or more traits to reroll and the 100 tokens option when I have 1 or 2 traits to reroll.  This will reduce the frustration for the reroll of that last trait. 
    How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.
    FuriousMoldovan
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    echonap said:
    How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.
    You’re right. In my mind, I was eliminating the 4 I don’t want from a subsequent roll (like how we’re eliminating 2 right now). Maybe a roll using 100 tokens can offer 5 traits and only 2 will not repeat kind of like getting a discount if you buy in bulk. 
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    edited January 14
    Yikes said:
    echonap said:
    How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.
    You’re right. In my mind, I was eliminating the 4 I don’t want from a subsequent roll (like how we’re eliminating 2 right now). Maybe a roll using 100 tokens can offer 5 traits and only 2 will not repeat kind of like getting a discount if you buy in bulk. 

    Now this could work, but only if:

    1. 4-5 traits are offered for 100 tokens.
    2. If cancelled, all these 4-5 traits are excluded from the next reroll.
    3. Regular 2-trait-reroll option is still available for 50 tokens.
    [40/80 tokens for non-heroes]

    But I still think my suggestion from the original post could be more beneficial and less complicated.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    Yikes
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    Only problem I see with cycling through all traits is if you got 2 traits you want on a roll but can only keep 1.  Now that other desired trait will be expensive as you wait for all the traits to cycle. 
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    Yikes said:
    Only problem I see with cycling through all traits is if you got 2 traits you want on a roll but can only keep 1.  Now that other desired trait will be expensive as you wait for all the traits to cycle. 

    It won't be excluded, because you accepted the 1 you need (did not cancel). So when you reroll another trait - it will be a brand new roll with all possible options available in the pool of choices ;)
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    Got it. Accepting a replacement trait resets the list of what was rejected.  Would definitely be better than what we have now. 
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,129

    The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

    Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.
    Eliminating ALL hero bonuses should occur after rejecting a SINGLE hero bonus. 

    We players view each of them as a collective undesirable result. The worst of the worst. The programming in the game treats each unique hero bonus as a unique result. There is an enormous gap here between player experience and game coding.

    We've been bring up this qol fix since bonus rerolls we're introduced. Nothing. Not even a public comment about it.
    FuriousMoldovanShadowWalker
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    edited January 15
    @ghost_pepper yes there are many problems with badge bonus rerolling and some good solutions have been offered but might be not too easy to implement.

    My point is that cycling through all possible traits before offering previously cancelled options (for both traits and badge bonus rerolling) is very simple change and doesn't take many dev-hours to make it happen.
    But it will make gaming experience much more pleasant 👍
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • iosononeganiosononegan Member Posts: 46
    All hero bonuses should be eliminated, especially now with star hero.
    ghost_pepperNovellRiotZappa
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    +1 to remove hero badge bonuses. At the very least, make the hero bonus apply to the hero wearing the badge as well as other members of the team. It would still be undesirable but at least some badges with this bonus can still be useful.  
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,129
    Removing the hero bonus from rerolls entirely should be easy for NG and, though not perfect for players, is a fantastic solution because of being easy to implement. Cycling through traits and classes, that's closer to acceptable. 

    Removing hero bonus from crafting is not practical.
    ATLAS-Z
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,891
    Removing the hero bonus from rerolls entirely should be easy for NG and, though not perfect for players, is a fantastic solution because of being easy to implement. Cycling through traits and classes, that's closer to acceptable. 

    Removing hero bonus from crafting is not practical.

    I like it. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,082

    The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

    Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.
    For badge rerolls this is mostly implemented already:

    From 3.12 update notes: (https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/45878/3-12-hellfrost-update-notes#latest)

    Set/Slot rerolls: Previous results are now restricted until all of the options have been cycled through. After that, the restrictions are reset

    Bonus Condition rerolls: Previous 10 results are continuously restricted.

    Ingame username: Jubjab
    FuriousMoldovan
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834

    The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

    Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.
    For badge rerolls this is mostly implemented already:

    From 3.12 update notes: (https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/45878/3-12-hellfrost-update-notes#latest)

    Set/Slot rerolls: Previous results are now restricted until all of the options have been cycled through. After that, the restrictions are reset

    Bonus Condition rerolls: Previous 10 results are continuously restricted.


    Right, I suggested this for badge bonus rerolling and survivor traits rerolling. Similar to what they already did for sets/slots rerolling.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,082
    Yeah, not sure why they limited it to the most recent 10 rerolls only for the bonus condition. 
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,129
    I thought fluxx said something about that's the limit of what the passive game memory can take for a thing like trait rerolling.

    If there is that sort of limitation, then remove ALL hero bonus conditions, then we have traits and classes to deal with. Have each slot machine reroll chance give us 5 results from the pool of traits and classes. If we reject all 5, those go into the rejection pile. We reroll again and get 5 new selections, excluding those previous 5.  We reject those 5, now the reject pool is 10. 

    There are more than 5 remaining traits and classes if rejecting 10 prior ones.

    So, in theory a player could continue to cycle endlessly. I think we may have to accept this. My assumption is that ng wants us to have the chance to cycle endlessly. This has been universally disapproved of by every single player who has voiced this issue, in every language, since being introduced. NG hasn't changed it, so they must want it this way.

    The big change if moving to this idea is that it takes an unpalatable system filled with hero bonus crap with highly likely infinite loop madness and repackages it into a far more palatable system of less crappy and less likely, but still possible, system of infinite loop madness. 

    -Players hunting for the lucky trait may still be at it for quite some time. There will be a different experience though with the impression of "more chance".

    -Players who generally don't mind going with an offensive or defensive build, or sticking exactly with the current meta, can shed unfavorable badge traits for more favorable traits easily and continue to play casually. Class bonuses may actually be preferred in this case.

    -Players new to the process will have a completely different experience. Positivity among new players is always important for retention.

    Thoughts?
    ATLAS-ZShadowWalker
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    A quick fix is to reduce the cost of rerolls for badge bonuses. Cap it at 10 reroll tokens per roll. Still wouldn’t be cheap but it’s better than the ridiculous price of 25 per roll right now. 
    FuriousMoldovanghost_pepperShadowWalker
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    Yikes said:
    A quick fix is to reduce the cost of rerolls for badge bonuses. Cap it at 10 reroll tokens per roll. Still wouldn’t be cheap but it’s better than the ridiculous price of 25 per roll right now. 

    I could live with that too for badge bonuses rerolls - flat 10 reroll tokens, no increased cost.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,891
    Hello new weekend event


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
    FuriousMoldovan
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

    I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

    This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
    @Lexia @Fluxxx


    @Lexia is it doable in the near future?
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    edited March 3
    Time to revisit this topic on survivor trait reroll. I’m up to about 10 rerolls trying to get Perseverance on scout Rick on my alt and still don’t have it. It’s so demoralizing and frustrating not to be able to make progress  :(

    I’m going to offer another suggestion that I’m hoping is easy to implement. Right now, the game is tracking the last 2 traits that were rejected so that it doesn’t come up on the next reroll. Please also track the number of times the player reject all options and keep the original trait.  It’s a single number. Then for each time the replacement traits were rejected, offer some number of discount for the next reroll.  For example, if the player rejects 5 times and the discount is 5 tokens for each rejection, then the discount for that survivor’s trait reroll should be reduced by 25. Once a trait replacement is accepted, the number of rejection is set back to zero and the discount is also zero. This way, there’s a mercy mechanism in place so that at least the player know there’s a chance to get the desired trait eventually and progress is always made even if the desired trait did not show up. 

    Right now, I’m just back to square one even after spending 500 reroll tokens. Grrr…
    Noiseratingghost_pepperPhalanx44ShadowWalker
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,129
    Since my TL,DR above didn't get any traction, I guess I'll just post this.


    ShadowWalkerFuriousMoldovan
  • DoesNotMatterDoesNotMatter Member Posts: 45
    edited March 4
    When things like this get ignored, it's deliberate. These companies have their own secret lingo such as "player retention" and "player engagement,"  "player spending" etc.. In other words, certain aspects are purposefully unattainable or difficult, so as to increase spending, encourage engagement, and maintain retention.

    They also are fully AWARE, and by design, withhold certain aspects to only offer it in limited quantities or charge exorbitant fees for it. Certain degree of psychology is involved too unfortunately and exploited, such as "It's free, so guess $15 or $50 is OK as it goes to the devs" whereas $15 is what a AAA expansion might run on a console game and $50 is an actual AAA game. Player Retention then causes the same person to pay more over time using the same rationale. I played another game where people were spending upwards of $60k which is beyond reason and egregious. Those devs however acted not unlike big tobacco and took the public stance of "people being free to do as they please" as they were getting rich with little work on their end. 

    With this game, they charge $15 for a gun that barely has anything different than something you can get from scavenge chests and they sprinkle in gold and radios to entice. Then they get more from the ads. If it was 0.25 for a gun, then maybe not egregious, but $15 or more is exploitative for people that have no restraint or gambling compulsions, etc..
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,129
    I spent a night in Vegas on spring break once. That's all I spent. I didn't let go of 1 single dollar the whole time.

    I don't just throw my money down out in the street. I'm not going to gamble it in Vegas and I'm sure as hell not going to gamble it in this game.

    Too soon to post another casino gif.
    Maybe next time.
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 248
    I'm trying to get lucky on my tdog for 2 months more or less. I spent all tokens now waiting to get more
    ShadowWalker
  • YikesYikes Member Posts: 157
    So, on my 18th reroll today, I finally got Perseverance on Survivalist Rick. That was a soul crushing 900 reroll tokens and 1900 Rick tokens for one trait. Just glad that nightmare is over.

    NoiseratingATLAS-Zechonap
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,834
    Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

    I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

    This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
    @Lexia @Fluxxx


    ↑↑ @Lexia @Fluxxx is there a chance this will be improved or no hope whatsoever?
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    NoiseratingRaiderDave
Sign In or Register to comment.