Mercer has destroyed interest in the guild war.

2

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  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 82
    Probably SPY/SMY has also destroyed NG income  :D With that team you don't need to use tools and gold for heals

    A good game should be the one that is easy to learn and hard to master and NML has become the opposite  :(:smile:

    Keep calm and buy survival pass 2 
    BurmeliinisNoiseratingRohlikzauchemShadowWalker
  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 82
    two more useless melee heroes on the way
    nah, 1 melee and 1 ranged  ;)
    WastelandMan
  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 82
    edited June 20
    n00b said:
    two more useless melee heroes on the way
    nah, 1 melee and 1 ranged  ;)
    correct, this one ranged will be useless like melee 
    more likely the ranged will be PVP oriented with LT that cripples, while melee might be focusing on making guaranteed non-body shot attacks for melee heroes/survivors
    they might reuse those Beth's circles and make them better too, like cripple/root/damage/disarm walkers inside it (charge attacks can be used to extend then that circle)


    not to make it OP, there can be chance of generating {X} smaller circles with chance {Y}%  inside that apply a certain effect to walkers
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 1,150
    ADPaq said:
    Let's be blunt here. The complaint isn't that Mercer has made anyone's game boring, after all everyone has agency over how they choose to play the game and which characters they use.

    What this is really about is a handful of players who believe they are better than others and do not like the fact so many are at their level. They want to introduce artificial means by which to force people to play a certain way in order to, hopefully, whittle down the competition.
    This is a pretty bad take. Is it really that hard to believe that players would like at least one Island/Sector (out of 20+) that is harder to complete because they actually enjoy a competition that has challenging gameplay?

    I can make assumptions about the people who are against any sort of increase in difficulty for GW, but I fail to see how making such generalizations would achieve anything productive.

    For the record I don't think it's just Mercer or even SMY/SPY, that has made GW too easy. There are a lot of things such as supports, new gear, traits, tools, and NG literally making the maps easier after much complaining. In my opinion, the game at least needs new or rebalanced enemies (with a focus on countering ranged) so that actually having a need to switch between different teams is beneficial for players.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,596
    #1 get rid of body piles, they are actually easier for SMY, SPY, PMY than threat counter cuz all enemies come from few locations and are nice and piled together. Conversely, body piles are a nightmare for melee teams. Just get rid of them. 

    #2 Create even more guild wars maps but all of them in the "theme" of the Dim Forrest - Double Trouble. Map. SFC or KTB in multiple directions and then you have to fight your way back to where you started.

    #3 Have Spawn counter be long 5+ rounds and start with 1 or 0 enemies. This will help melee, and negligible effect on ranged. 

    #4 When spawn count is full at +9 enemies, do this:
    - Each additional threat triggers minus - 1 round sooner that enemies arrive
    - Each additional threat triggers +2 level stronger enemies will arrive
    - Each additional threat increases chances special walkers will arrive. 

    I can do more, but start here ☝️


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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    I like your idea #4.

    But without knowing the map details beforehand, it's still safest to go with SMY. So maybe add the map details on the pre-mission screen:
    - which map
    - threat counter with info about rounds & amount or whether there is a pile

    If you then see it's a good map and the threat counter is at 5 turns with 1 enemy only, it could make a lot of sense to go with a melee team with threat reduction.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    ATLAS-ZWellyLugafaster
  • HirntodHirntod Member Posts: 69
    Well, you don't have to play SPY or a variant to clear isle 20. I'm doing this sector with my melee-group regularly and with a low to average tool usage. I don't want to boast - I'm an average player who just had the right idea at the right time. But I want to encourage you guys who are disappointed by the SPY and SMY hype: There are many opportunitys in this game. Do yourself a favor and check your line-up and re-think your tactics regularly for the possibility of an improvement. At least, when new gear / traits / updates are revealed.
    Ingame Username: el presidente
    Stalker20ADPaq
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,234
    I like your idea #4.

    But without knowing the map details beforehand, it's still safest to go with SMY. So maybe add the map details on the pre-mission screen:
    - which map
    - threat counter with info about rounds & amount or whether there is a pile

    If you then see it's a good map and the threat counter is at 5 turns with 1 enemy only, it could make a lot of sense to go with a melee team with threat reduction.
    I've been an advocate for this for a while, we don't necessarily need to know the nitty gritty or anything like that. I'd prefer it if the objective dictated whether it was spawns or threat counter. Like we already have KTTW that's threat counter, add GTE to this and then you could use some strategy with maybe Beta and/or a TR team. SFC/K&E can be spawns, you need the kills for the latter anyway. 
    ATLAS-Z
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 241
    I have one perhaps more simple suggestion

    Basically there are 6 useful heroes in the game now: Sasha Mercer Princess Yumiko Ezekiel and GCarol.

    The problem is not Mercer, the problem is when you put SPY or SMY together and the game becomes quite easy especially now we have all the new weapons and armors.

    So simple solution would be to give just 3 extra VP for not using any of those 6, 2 extra VP for using only 1 of the 6, and 1 extra VP for using only 2 out of those 6.

    So for example if you do Sasha Mercer and any other assault that is not Princess, you get 1 extra VP. For a set of island, that will worth 20 VP. Mercer and 2 other assaults that is not Princess, that will worth 40 VP. You don't use any of those 6 - that will worth 60 VP per island. Obviously you also run the risk of redgassing, so, you just hope the gamble will worth it.
    Member of MavsOG
    ATLAS-ZBurmeliinisJordanYukiNoiseratingHirntodBassreactorADPaq
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,596
    Nope. I disagree again. 

    Any reward for not using features we've pumped Time 🕦 & Money 💰💵 into I'm gonna disagree. That's crap 💩👎 IMO. 


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    hdhdhDresdenborneokidWastelandMan
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 241
    With all respect - Atlas - I agree with all your ideas. I just don't think it's something that can be done quickly.

    Another idea - I have posted long ago about PvP gameplay. Simplest form would be to adjust all PvP defenders to 5 pinks on island 20 and 4 pinks on island 19 and 3 pinks on island 12 - even better with their respective traits upped too. Of if you don't like to mess with the pinks (since you paid for it), just up the ASL by +5 to achieve similar results (basically to guarantee bodyshots on all attackers' attacks and crits on all defenders attacks).

    This will probably make little difference for guilds like BB whose players already have 5 pink survivors anyway. So maybe at the very top, there needs to be a super boss or something. You can get extra VP and RP to face defenders with 10 pinks (or +10 ASL, whatever you want to call it) with the risks that come with it. You strike gold when you win; or bag a redgas or lose a sword if you lose.

    I do wonder. Why is it that the ASL isn't upped in GW PvP as opposed to the GW PvZ? I am guessing due to the chaos caused due to inconsistent movement mechanics as opposed to the more predictable walker movement mechanics? Well maybe if you adjusd tthe ASL too much, this is a problem, but if you only adjust it by +5 for island 20, +4 at island 19, and +3 at island 12, that should still work. So the defenders can still be killed; you just have to mind the bodyshots and the crits.
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    RohlikzauchemNoiserating
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 788
    edited June 28
    DonTwd said:
    haha, while you go 2-5 missions Ezekiel, Eugene, S.Rick and throwing tools and killing 4 strong walkers for half an hour ...    I will score 1036 points in 1 hours using SMY without gold and tools. there is no worthy competition SMY!  That is the problem.  It makes absolutely no sense to play with other lineups, like riding a wheelchair when there is a Ferrari ...
    You're a rockstar! Getting an autograph is definitely on my bucket list!
    FuriousMoldovan
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 788
    DonTwd said:
    Mercer is too unbalanced.  This hero completely destroyed the interest in the guild war.  Now all enemies die in 1-2 turns. 
     New maps after the update brought freshness, but also passed without effort with the help of an unbalanced Mercer.  This hero broke the balance of the game too much.
      You should have done it in the warrior class, melees need a hero like that, but gun teams don't.  
    The game is getting more and more boring... Or make sure that only melee heroes can go to some guild war islands. 
     And in challenge Mercer kills everything like a nuclear weapon, it's a pity that this hero is not a warrior.
    Watch the Origins II update video 😉
  • Shezza10Shezza10 Member Posts: 67
    DonTwd said:
    Mercer is too unbalanced.  This hero completely destroyed the interest in the guild war.  Now all enemies die in 1-2 turns. 
     New maps after the update brought freshness, but also passed without effort with the help of an unbalanced Mercer.  This hero broke the balance of the game too much.
      You should have done it in the warrior class, melees need a hero like that, but gun teams don't.  
    The game is getting more and more boring... Or make sure that only melee heroes can go to some guild war islands. 
     And in challenge Mercer kills everything like a nuclear weapon, it's a pity that this hero is not a warrior.
    Watch the Origins II update video 😉
    Doesn’t really help to make SMY less powerful though does it? I will still use it as to me it’s safer than melee. It’s a good start to making melee teams stronger, if you can get your head around the wording of the new traits.
    BenjaminT
  • KrabbatorKrabbator Member Posts: 46
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Ps if you think the game is too one dimensional these days here's a good idea for you.

    Put some time into making suggestions on how to improve melee and other heroes you'd like to see. (like many of us do already). 

    HELP make other things in the game great, rather than complaining about the things that are already great.

    And definitely don't make me use shit-garbage teams cuz you're bored with Mercer. 
    When guilds that are barely in the top 100 in guild wars do max points (examples: RO Addicted, place #78 at the moment and Bagofhammers, place #84), it is a fact that GW is simply far too easy. 

    Making other heroes better will not solve this problem, it will make it even worse.

    Making the maps harder or introducing harder walkers will further solidify SMY as the only possible choice of team.

    As I see it the only solution is to do an expert mode, with limited amount of heroes, giving more points. Then you can still use SMY if you want, but at cost of VP. 

    This would bring back some of the good old days of GW, where you had to analyze the hard missions and think if they look managable, try to understand what your opponent is doing, and to take some risk. Try a hard mission with a non-optimal team and take the win if you succeed, or lose if you fail. 

    PS. I am also a bit surprised that you seem to suggest that I only complain and don't do things to make this game great
    There is no need to make one-sided offers that are beneficial only to top guilds and players who have upgraded their base and their heroes to the maximum. What you are suggesting will simply delimit the field of action of the top guilds and everyone else. Yes, due to the fact that players who have been playing for a long time have upgraded more heroes, there are more necessary weapons and armor and there are top badges. Roughly speaking, you propose to close the entrance to the guild war to beginners and everyone who is not top. Just by increasing the "entry threshold". Due to the fact that they do not have upgraded heroes, equipment and badges, they will not be able, even theoretically, to gain the maximum. There are a huge number of guilds in the game that are not equipped in top gear, and play tactics when strong guild players pass cards with zombies, and those who are weaker kill looters. You only look from the position of "I'm bored, I've upgraded everything, let's add complexity." Well, make yourself a challenge, go through the 19th and 20th islands with the composition of the Governor, Meggie Hunter and Merle. If you have a desire to suffer and spend your nerves, strength and consumables (grenades, first aid kits, flares), do not think that the others also agree to this.
    The prickly cactus brought the mice to tears, but they continued to nibble on it.
    miori199373Chris7thLegion
  • BassreactorBassreactor Member Posts: 129
    Do you think Mercer or SPY, SMY, YSP... is the problem? Real problem is the limit of maximum points. If you remove limit all problems will disappear. Just need to change the scoring function.
      
    ATLAS-ZADPaq
  • PazuPazu Member Posts: 11
    Hi every one ! 
    i just add my own idea :)
    maybe should it be fun if specials walkers appear when threat grows
    With new possibility in melee i start playing with it on last gw on island 12 and i realy appreciated. 
    you have a menace of 4 at the beginning. With melee it won't grow and can get down. 
    for exemple after 5 a tank appear/ 6 and 7 make 2 fast Walkers arriving ... it would make the game more exciting even with mercer because of the unknow... 

    For the moment using SMY in secteur 20 is boring
  • PazuPazu Member Posts: 11
    i just read it's quite similar to what atlas purpose... 
    on map with pile, there could be a special count for assaut range threat
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    With all the things having changed in the game, there's already a variery of teams that you could safely use on island 20. People just don't do it because we are so used to play with SMY, and in the current meta you can't really use that team elsewhere than in GW & Distance. 

    So I still think it would be a good and fairly easy change to add a new column of maps, where only a random selection of heroes would be allowed. These maps would then give 35x the VP.




    Just kidding, maybe add 15% to the score?
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    FuriousMoldovanShadowWalkerWastelandMans7eyeW8
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,226
    That was a good stab at LS @Burmeliinis 😂
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    I guess we can't avoid the simple fact that this game is becoming old. People that have played it actively for a few years or even since the start will now have pretty much everything maxed and all key heroes at 3-5 pink stars, AND know how to use them. NG is doing its best to keep these loyal players, but it's becoming harder and harder. 
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    WastelandMan
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,596
    I guess we can't avoid the simple fact that this game is becoming old. People that have played it actively for a few years or even since the start will now have pretty much everything maxed and all key heroes at 3-5 pink stars, AND know how to use them. NG is doing its best to keep these loyal players, but it's becoming harder and harder. 


    I know right. I didn't even make much effort to promote Carol and yet ☝️

    Don't look at Mercer lol


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    Killdozer187_
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 788
    Me: it doesn't matter since guild wars currently doesn't work, hasn't worked in the past, and it likely won't work in the future. My suggestion is take it out to pasture, shoot it, bury it, then never think about digging it back up.
    Build a superior PVP mode with Netflix's war chest on a separate platform. I will definitely download that app.

    *Opinions may vary but this is mine

    And yes GW's is easiest with Mercer but almost anyone with a max level account can clear island 20 with melee if they really wanted to. Most people won't bother using melee because their opponents are using Mercer or SPY so why risk red gassing a mission and losing when the opponents run the war perfect? It's a game of inches at nosebleed stakes and most top tier clans are playing for ties aka  participation trophies anyway...
    s7eyeW8
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 788
    ATLAS-Z said:
    I guess we can't avoid the simple fact that this game is becoming old. People that have played it actively for a few years or even since the start will now have pretty much everything maxed and all key heroes at 3-5 pink stars, AND know how to use them. NG is doing its best to keep these loyal players, but it's becoming harder and harder. 


    I know right. I didn't even make much effort to promote Carol and yet ☝️

    Don't look at Mercer lol
    Don't look at my screen time from the radio active 7 day booster lol
    ATLAS-Z
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,596
    Lol @Killdozer187_ I wish that I had it in me to farm still but no

    I'm super glad for everyone who was able to take advantage of that last week


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