Heroes Introduction Primarily a Problem for Established Players

lmfgunnutlmfgunnut Member Posts: 1,636
I'm going to attempt to lay out an argument here that is in defense of the Heroes roll out. I've briefly mentioned it elsewhere, but I think it deserves to show up here before eventually making its way to the redundancy thread. I'm sure I'll catch some disagrees here, but I also only need 17 likes to jump over 1k!

There are three problems that most have settled on with the Heroes.
1. They start at 1 star (and are lower in level)
2. They cost a FORTUNE in tokens to level up which translates into Trump money in radios
3. They don't have the "best" attributes

I would like to address all of these issues with a more NG friendly lens. These problems are problems that only advanced players will really suffer from.

Starting with #1. At the beginning of the game, all of our survivors or at least most of our survivors were low level and 1 star. Having Daryl on a starting team would not really be a detriment to any player just starting out. Add to the mix that they get a free epic rifle that has a crossbow graphic skin, he might actually be a welcome addition. Since Daryl in particular can be advanced up in star level as new players make their way through the episodes, he might actually be some players first epic hunter. Yes it will take some time, but it took me 9 months of playing to get where I am right now. I assume if someone were playing with Daryl as their hunter for much of that time he'd probably be legendary and not look so bad (even if RNGesus could net you a better hunter trait wise with some luck).

For number two, there is no getting around how expensive it would be for any mature player to bring one of the heroes up to a truly useful level. In my own case, I have 3 legendary survivors in the hunter, scout, assault and shooter classes and 2 in the bruiser, warrior classes with some decent epics to shore these up. As such, there is little chance that I would use one of the heroes until I had them up to legendary level which is a long road and far too many radios to think about. Having said that, try to think from the perspective of a new player who is just starting their NML journey. How many radio calls have you made from Day 1 to now? Tons..I have no idea how many, but tons...far, far, far more than I've made since the 2.0 release in trying to get and improve heroes. I expect that for those people, over the course of time they will have many more opportunities to collect tokens for heroes than we've had in this short time. Thinking this way puts the seeming enormity of the cost into a frame that perhaps just makes it tough vs impossible. Doesn't help the veteran player so much (perhaps they could think of a way to do that) but it does make the system seem less of a money grab and more of a long term play.

As for the attributes of the heroes, this is again an example of a problem that only well established players with long lists of "perfect" or close enough survivors will have. Yes, I only want survivors with luck and dodge, does that mean that all of my survivors have that? No, but certainly I'm not investing tokens into those without. I'm looking for replacements for them. But for someone that doesn't yet have a full roster of badass, they won't miss those attributes quite as much. They will become accustomed to playing with the Hero on their team and may later find themselves wondering about the investment in a new legendary that has "perfect" traits as a loss of whatever the leader trait of the hero might be.

I'm not trying to put out the flames that have erupted with this update, I just hope to let the perspective I've been able to come to on the new additions spread a little wider than myself. Feel free to flame me, I'm not sensitive about disagrees (but I do want likes!). As you react however you will, try to see the update through the lens I've offered and see if it doesn't make a little more sense.
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Comments

  • NCDawgFanNCDawgFan Member Posts: 2,066
    Well said @Imfgunnut. My plan is to think about the Heros once all my existing survivors are legendary with all level 5 traits. Until, why bother? I can see where having the Daryl or Rick survivor for a Noob who is running a crew of level 12 survivors anyway can be exciting. The part that is frustrating is you would expect any "Heros" to at least come with luck and dodge. Without those two traits, why invest tokens on any survivor, Hero or not?
    Papacas
  • HawkeHawke Member Posts: 8
    Im A level 42 establish player and for me it's not the time it takes to make any survivor useful it's the $$$.this whole system is designed to get players to spend more money.
    mongo911MrSorrowLadyAquila
  • TroubleManTroubleMan Member Posts: 423
    lmfgunnut said:

    @Hawke I do not disagree that the cost is enormous to level up a hero to a usable level. The argument I attempt to layout is that if we did not need them right this second or we just started the game today that they would level up with our regular teams without any true additional cost just through collected radios The cost becomes a factor when I don't want to wait nine months to collect enough radios to get them there

    Hence the beauty of the rollout from NG's financial perspective. Get the people leveled up to a high level, then introduce 'Hero' players with some nifty traits (assuming they work) with almost zero experience or hope of progress unless you burn mega bucks.

    Couple that with the shady backroom nerfing of purchased items....it's a stellar business model. For new players, the issue won't become apparent for some time. Experience players....well read the boards. It's full of joy and happiness.
    SgtSalamiInvadermongo911
  • piffolomaniapiffolomania Member Posts: 145
    @theRealBender Yeah hire some of the bioware guys that worked on mass effect 3 they could give you a few tips on how to ruin a franchise.
    mongo911
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    masmith93 said:

    I think the IDEA of heroes is great - great for NG to be able to advertise and great for players to incorporate their favorite characters from the show. The implementation on all levels has been - terrible?

    I've said that the traits should be transparent and not a secret that you discover after spending radio's earned through grinding or spending a portion of your annual salary to buy them. The tokens should also be universal between the heroes, esp if we're starting at one star. Players should know what traits they're getting just as they do with a regular survivor. I have the option to NOT spend XP leveling a scout without dodge, I don't have that option with heroes. WTFN?!

    In addition, I also agree with what @NCDawgFan and others have said, without Luck and Dodge, it's insulting to the characters they represent. They've survived for years - they obviously all have luck and by the time you level them up, they will have 'learned' to dodge. They should be the best of the best. But unfortunately... It's just a lot of bitch nuts.

    My thoughts exactly! +10000000 to agree.
    mongo911ggbats
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    edited July 2016
    @lmfgunnut
    Don't you think that everybody can see by themselves what happened here? Didn't you read all the threads about how NG does not give a single f#ck about those who already had paid their way up and now they want to lure more suckers who will pay up their way from the scratch?

    Nobody said that it's bad for newbies. I think it's a progress, but it shouldn't go in one direction.

    Everybody saying that game should maintain it's addictive stance to all players and we trying to communicate and transfer our thoughts and ideas how to do it, but they just don't care. This is just total lack of respect.

    Lot of people still here only in hope that eventually they will start working on extending their content to maintaining interest of long-time players.

    @Teeceezy @Shadowkeeper @OldGoth @Carlo @Nekobasu @zbot @NG
    I still believe in you all.
    ggbats[Deleted User]
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    @zbot I don't "have a beef" with Devs, I am trying to communicate constructively.
    I can change some words if you don't like it, but I am not breaking any rules here.
    mongo911ggbats[Deleted User]
  • GladiGladi Member Posts: 616
    lmfgunnut said:


    .
    .
    I have 5 heroes.
    Daryl is 4 stars with 2 traits left to upgrade to 4.
    Maggie is 4 stars with no traits upgraded to 4.
    Jesus is 3 stars with 2 traits left to upgrade to 3
    Abraham is 3 star with no traits upgraded to 3
    Glenn is 2 star with no traits upgraded to 3

    It took 1200 radios to get that far and I spent 3 hours worth of annual salary to do it.

    If I understand correctly, you bough 6 radio bundles with 200 radios each. And it is worth 3 hours of ur work.
    Dunno if ur salary is average, below or above(I guess above), but just try to imagine, that for me doing the same, it will cost about 50 hours of my work and my salary is cca 30% above average. And getting 1200 radios normal way is work for ...8-9 months(based on my average 35phones/week). Im not whining, just giving you my "different lens" view.

    [Deleted User]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,344
    edited July 2016
    It would help if ngo fixed it so that survivors can earn points needed to be promoted and/or open new traits by successfully completing missions in addition to the token system.
    mongo911rgerkman
  • CrazyDCrazyD Member Posts: 456
    I also think that the Hero feature is a great development for new players, and players that just started out and have not progressed far yet.

    In my second f2p account Daryl is a welcome addition to my team. and since that team is mostly uncommons i like the idea of adding new Hero's to the mix in future. Lesser traits dont really bother me there because im not pushing for maxing stars on that account.

    So good progress for new players and overall game before the new TV season starts imo..... should attract more people to start this game.

    Am now hoping they switch focus on changes/features to provide a better game for current high lvl and fast growing players as well. This way they prolong the lifespan of the players.... = solid community = more revenue = more profit = more employee bonus = more & bigger parties (just mentioning some incentives for them)

    I have seen so many good idea's of improvement already posted on this forum..... they can get right into it after the holiday :p
    (Re)tired
    Conan1976PR0DJ[Deleted User]
  • RorshackRorshack Member Posts: 103
    Soooo.... who's up for restarting?

    Seriously though, When i first started out nobody cared what the game held for me. I was a newb. Now that I am much further along, i share the same attitude. My care cup is empty for all the new players just getting into the game. I am concerned with content that will keep me playing this game and maintain my interest level.

    I know that NG wants to capture new players and attract more attention, but really they did that well enough (i mean look at all of us, who could do better?) with what they had. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If i were at the helm I would be concerned with keeping players around, more specifically paying players.

    They could have introduced all the hero characters in the nightmare level (I'm sure all the free useless survivors through the storyline wouldn't mind). Then used tokens to level up your favorite or the one that suits your crew. This would have made the storyline feel more like the TV show where they pick recognizable survivors up along the way.

    @theRealBender Forget Bioware... they're my local talent and I'm not giving them up. At least not without a fight...
    theRealBender[Deleted User]
  • IRONDeeIRONDee Member Posts: 469
    I think you hit the nail on the head: heroes are the long con. But there are many players, especially on the forums, that are by their natures impatient. They want to progress to the top as quickly as possible, and once there, stay there. But then they run out of content, and get bored.

    NG has to try and balance the desires of that very vocal minority with the less vocal majority of those of us who are ftp, and don't need to be top dogs. I don't envy them that job.

    I agree with complaints about purchased items stats changing 100% and even game mechanics changes 80%, and I'm frustrated too that heroes will take months to get and even longer to level, but I'm more frustrated with a lack of excitement.

    They took deadlies away, which I still think was a mistake, as it was something I could dip into occasionally when side missions were too repetitive. Outposts can be fun, as I never really know what weapons and armor an opponent has, but I'm not trying to be top of a tier, yet. Seeing how far I can go in a challenge without buying gas, and maintaining 3 stars is still fun.

    I can understand the top players being frustrated and those things not being fun at all any more, so I recommend to my guildies to enjoy the game as they play, instead of driving for some future max epic build when they can enjoy something. Because that end game just isn't here yet. And I'm not sure I want people to be able to easily max their heroes. When you do, and you only have side missions to play, and your tomatoes and maybe even xp ar maxed, what are you going to do when you log in?
    I'm not addicted, I just have nothing better to do.
    Founder and benevolent dictator of IRONPHX
    Alt Elder in Grumpy Old Gits

  • patchypatchy Member Posts: 1
    I have 8 heros almost got degan I need Michone and rosita
  • TeeceezyTeeceezy Staff Posts: 3,576
    Let's not necro threads. If you'd like to talk about the heroes introduction from a retrospective view, please open a new one.
This discussion has been closed.