How predetermined are rewards

blynknz · August 2016

A timeout over the weekend got me thinking.
I decided to draw a Legendary TG crate, and got the reward, but it must have timed out because when I went back in I had all my TG. So I picked it again.
Obviously I got the same equipment. And I am happy with that to stop people from using the disconnect to get something better.

But, I was wondering how predetermined these are.
Do they already have the next 100 rewards planned out for me? Or just 1 and when I draw that it picks the next prize.
Or does everyone actually have the same predetermined plan, so if we gathered all the data, we can pick what the order of rewards.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

Completely. Completely as in the game already knows what you are going to get before you complete the mission successfully before you even try to. It also knows what you will get for viewing a video and or spending gold to open additional boxes before hand also. Since you can't move forward to do anything thing else but pick because there is a hard stop in place luck and chance don't have a damn thing to do with it. So move along little lab mice, move it along before the lab owners cut another huge hunk out of that cheese and then relocate it on ya again

blynknz · August 2016

Yes, I know about the chests, & videos etc. But at what point are they done.
If I pick a TG reward now, does it then randomly select the next one. Or has it already done that.

Lets say I draw 2 TG rewards, and then time out and get to do it again.
I know the first one is the same, but what about the second.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

Ahhh good question. I would say that buying and using gold exponentially improves ones odds of a successful outcome but the game seems to have trouble distinguishing between gold that has been earned versus gold that has been purchased so the predetermined outcomes most likely do not stretch out very far at all. Maybe not out past one or two missions before it gets recalculated again. <-- That is just pure speculation of course,

jester · August 2016

I believe it re-rolls every time you pick a crate.

Jaden · August 2016

And traits aren't fixed or at least hadn't been last time I got disconnected after opening crates. I remember that because I got an assault rifle with traits I liked, got disconnected, got the same rifle with different traits...

Vudnik · August 2016

If you get the same item back after a crash or fail then the choice was trapped and re-delivered, like when we're returned to the same point in game play. There is succession or level-based randomness (level 13 pulls X, level 19 pulls Y, with many more minute deviations than we can possibly imagine; traits, goods, XP and gold values), but within each succesive pool there is a very deep pile of goo that NG believes we will be outrageously satisfied with, from which the ladle, always dipped deeply, regularly delivers us a pile of goo instead of something of any workable value. The subtle nuances of the item are immaterial, you're getting "blah, blah." The game server says "I will only deliver 1000 legendary of any kind of anything to the world today, etc., etc." - and therein lies our communal luck of the draw.
As for the chosing of crates in any particular order or sequence, in any given screen, the answer is that they are predetermined. Your 4 ad-based or 3-6-9 mission gifts are already queued up, per session, to deliver the next item, no matter which crate you choose. Random choice heuristics.

Wraith · August 2016

The box rolls are done when you start the mission. People were exploiting it and disconnecting to get better rolls, so NG fixed it. No more post-rolls, all boxes are pre-rolled. The only choice you have is whether you watch the ad or spend gold to open more boxes.

-W

OldGoth · August 2016

Wraith has it right, above. Also, some of the gear has random traits, some have predetermined.

DarkFae said:
I would say that buying and using gold exponentially improves ones odds of a successful outcome but the game seems to have trouble distinguishing between gold that has been earned versus gold that has been purchased so the predetermined outcomes most likely do not stretch out very far at all.

I don't understand what you mean by having trouble distinguishing between non-paid and paid for gold. Regardless, gold use has zero relation to how the reward lottery works.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

@OldGoth

I have noticed that when I used gold my odds of getting more chances to use more gold increase exponentially (ie better rewards and more gold tickets appeared). Both when I used to buy it and now that I am a f2p player which is what led me to believe that whatever is making the decicions about rewards and gold ticket availability has troubles distinguishing betwwen gold that has been paid for and gold that has been earned via normal game play. You don't have to take my word for it though because I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Please take a look through this post and others like it and you will see that the people who have posted most often inside of it often have very high gold counts and or show evidence of heavy gold usage as depicted in the upper right hand corner where the gold counter can be easily seen in the pics posted and also are often people who have admitting to being p2p players

OldGoth · August 2016

Gold use or gain or amount "in the bank" has no effect on the quality of reward crates you get. (If it did, we wouldn't comment on this.)

The reason why the best rewards might look like to correlate with spending is that players who choose to buy something are also our most active players. They play a ton. Not to say a non-buying user wouldn't or couldn't play a lot, too! But those who do buy, as a rule, play a lot. They get the good rewards like anyone else would, with the amount of hours and effort and RNG luck they put in.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

@OldGoth

I put a lot of time in myself as a f2p player but I can understand why you would not want to comment on this. It actually forced people to spend more time playing when you are f2p before gas boosters hit the game (which I don't buy) because you needed to spend more time grinding before the walker cap. When that was talking place it very noticeable that more gold equaled better rewards. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm also not the only person who has noticed or posted about this so it's hard to believe I'm wrong about this.

DIblis · August 2016

Wraith said:
The box rolls are done when you start the mission. People were exploiting it and disconnecting to get better rolls, so NG fixed it. No more post-rolls, all boxes are pre-rolled. The only choice you have is whether you watch the ad or spend gold to open more boxes.

-W

So does this mean the boxes are fixed in the array and you can choose which 3 to open of the 9 possible rewards or that it doesnt matter which 3 you choose, you will always get the 1st 3 predetermined rewards?

My experience has been that the rewads are fixed in their boxes and i choose which possible rewards to open but there was another thread that appeared to show the opposite, ie choice was just an illusion.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

@DIblis

from what I hear you always get the same 3 choices no matter which 3 of 9 boxes you pick.

OldGoth · August 2016

DarkFae said:
When that was talking place it very noticeable that more gold equaled better rewards. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm also not the only person who has noticed or posted about this so it's hard to believe I'm wrong about this.

Yeah. That's not the case, though.

DIblis · August 2016

@OldGoth, could you give a definitive answer to choice or fixed?
When I've suffered reconnection issues (not deliberate) and chosen another 3 crates I've got gold crates i didnt get the 1st time?

[Deleted User] · August 2016

@OldGoth said:

DarkFae said:
When that was talking place it was very noticeable that more gold equaled better rewards. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm also not the only person who has noticed or posted about this so it's hard to believe I'm wrong about this.
Yeah. That's not the case, though.

Well I'm not making this up so it's strange that things appear to be that way. Maybe it's another visual glitch

OldGoth · August 2016

Not sure about what you mean by choice or fixed? If you mean whether it matters which specific crates you tap: as established before, no, it doesn't. However, as I believe in magic myself, I still believe it does matter and go for certain magical combinations from day to day. :P This is the only way we could come up with that's cheat proof. We reserve the right to change the way this works if we can come up with a more fun (random) way.

As for "does anything else I do affect what I get": no, it really is a roll of the (virtual, but unweighted) dice.

DIblis · August 2016

@OldGoth
Definitely not cheat proof.. you guys are cheating.
What is presented as a choice is fixed.
In the real world you would have 9 boxes with rewards inside (predetermined prior to opening and fixed for each box))... You choose 3 and thats what you get etc.
What we have here is you giving the illusion of choice and options that allow another go if you didnt happen to get "lucky" with what you recieved, this includes gold which translates into money!

I don't know if your legal team has looked into the ramifications of fraudulently presenting what's occuring with different jurasdictions around the world but I'm fairly certain this breaches Australian law which trumps any BS clauses you've put in the user agreement. I'm subject to Australian law and while you market and allow Australian players to spend money etc on your game so are you.

I cannot more strongly suggest that if 2.1 does anything, it changes how you drip feed us mission rewards eg. 1 crate comes up, we open it, then the 2nd appears, gets opened, then the 3rd gets opened. We then get the option to watch ad or pay gold for 3 more.

The present situation can't continue, if there is no choice then stop being lazy and explain what is occuring to every player and fix the current misrepresentation of what is occuring NOW.

Stop cheating people out of their money. And stop trying to make light of your deceptive practices. You believe in magic, it'll be magic if we let this $hit go unanswered. NG are no better than predators scamming people in every other way online or in the real world, true parasites.
When one phones i tell em their scum if they dont quit and find a way to make an honest living. You guys present a fictional choice and then profit when we mistakenly believe it was bad luck so we'll try one more time... suck my bitch nuts.

[Deleted User] · August 2016

Ummm @DIblis you were so busy sugar coating your feelings before presenting them to us that I fear your true intentions might have gotten misinterpreted. Can you please come back in here and tell us how you really feel?

DIblis · August 2016

Better still i can tell you how if they had 1 brain cell to share they could have fixed the issue
1. Predetermine what the rewards are at mission start.
2. Randomly place rewards into the 9 crates at mission end.

If for what ever reason the player goes back and has to select again the rewards will have moved, fixing any possible cheating by the player and ng misrepresenting what is actually occuring.
How simple is that problem fixed and everyone happy. How much coding and time would it take to correct?

mongo911 · August 2016

@DIblis...

With NextGames you are not seeing stupidity...

You are seeing the attempt to dig their way out, of a hole they dug themselves into...

The madding part is, the future agenda, and the path to get there...

No body likes to tell bad news... But NextGames has some bad news for the long time players...

DIblis · August 2016

It's a hole of their own making. If they were honest and explained what has been occuring, ie deliberate player cheating, and this is what they've been forced to change to combat it then we would most likely live with the changes, ie no more 9 box array etc. They only have themselves to blame for the current misleading of players.
Does anyone argue they're not misleading us? (Well not anyone who's read this thread with its admission of what is occuring but everyone else).
What does the current in game mission tutorial say is occuring at the end of a mission? Does it say there are just 9 representations of crates but it doesnt matter which 1 you choose?

mongo911 · August 2016

Yup... Yup... Yup... It is a hole of their own making... It is stupid, to not admit problems specifically, and general direction of corrections...

But that is their course of action...

And they get to live with the results... ( no wallets open... Toxic anger... Dropping numbers of game players... Angry Reviews... )

[Deleted User] · August 2016

@DIblis

ngo already tried to apply that strategy when they 1st nerfed the bruisers, then again when they were trying to justify the mission rewards being rolled at the time of the start of the mission and a few other times already for the exact reason you have already mentioned but forum rules here state I can not elaborate on that. As a matter of fact they are going to sing that tune for you coming up in an undisclosed amount of time when they nerf more survivors and or gear and or traits. So if you didn't hear that lil' diddy when they sang it over this don't worry the next concert is on it's way

DIblis · August 2016

It's now at the stage that it wont matter what they do in upcoming update that if this isnt fixed then i wont ever be spending a cent or watching any ads or spending gold on crates as opposed to just not spending until other issues i knew about are fixed.

mongo911 · August 2016

@DIblis the direction of the game is strong Heroes...

DIblis · August 2016

I think I'll just spend my time coming up with more additions to my signature...

Dale · August 2016

OldGoth said:
Not sure about what you mean by choice or fixed? If you mean whether it matters which specific crates you tap: as established before, no, it doesn't.
. . .
As for "does anything else I do affect what I get": no, it really is a roll of the (virtual, but unweighted) dice.

An more honest, or at least a more obvious, way to depict that would be a slot machine graphic. Pull the lever (or press a button) and the three results appear. Pull (or press) again, and another three results appear.

Nine boxes implies a choice that does not exist. Pressing a button and seeing the results would more accurately reflect what is happening.

tammy · August 2016

I just enjoy making lil patterns when I'm choosing which crate to open

Xoxo

rgerkman · August 2016

& always the same ones.. In same order.. It works!! It really does!!

Welcome.

Quick Links

How predetermined are rewards

Comments