Please explain the luck nerf

Sorry if this has been explained before. My understanding is that luck **might** no longer be stacking on survivor and weapon. What I have a hard time to grasp is why there is so much animosity toward this change ?

All my worthwile survivors have luck. All my upgraded weapons also have luck. Most are at max level. Needless to say luck will still be a top skill on survivors so weapons with luck will be of no use to survivors that have this trait.

Here is where I get lost : these lucky weapons usually only stay with me for roughly 1,5 council level before being upgraded.

So I might see a drop in relative power before my survivors get new weapons without luck but in the end I feel the positive aspect of this change ( less ridiculous amount of dodge in the outposts and repeatable star-missions ) could benefit everyone.

So why so much hate on this **luck nerf** when the low-level grind in challenges and the absurd token system seem like way more troublesome and important matters to settle ? I most certainly won't stop playing if luck no longer stacks but mindlessly going through level 2s with my level 19 survivors week after week will one day kill me. For sure.
MizTy

Comments

  • MovadoMovado Member Posts: 863
    From your statements, I don't think you quite understand how Luck/Dodge stacking works. I mean no personal offense by this, but it seems strange you would question players' feelings about it when you have not seemed to grasp the nature of multiple stacking yourself. Otherwise you would understand.
  • IpshaiIpshai Member Posts: 38
    I take no offense and english isn't my native tongue. So please help me grasp the nature of this stacking :

    maximum dodge calculation ( assuming 5 is maximum trait level)

    now : dodge ( armor and survivor) and luck ( weapon and survivor) ( 4x15%) = 60% chance to dodge
    after nerf : dodge twice on any source and luck only once (3x15%) = 45%

    Do I still not understand how this works ?
  • IpshaiIpshai Member Posts: 38
    We all scraped every single piece of equipment and even hero that didn't have luck on it.

    Is it justification not to correct an obvious imbalance in the game that makes a part of it almost unplayable ? Getting dodged 4 times in a row regularly in outposts is not normal.

    IMHO we want an evolving game and this change is logical to me. And it's fair to everyone : luck was a no-brainer before and will remain the best trait for your survivors. The change will *in effect* only apply to weapons that already are a renewable commodity.

    NG has made so many bad calls lately and the to-do list is so long that most posts turn out negative. Stupid 15-radio calls for 2 tokens, worthless 10-radio calls for specific heroes, 10 gas missions, gold crates with green stuff, absurd token economy and the list goes on....

    This change is not a bad call if you ask me. Did any of you thought your grandchild would inherit your level 21 or 22 lucky weapons ? I'm sorry but for the game to get better some changes are needed. I just wished they would tackle the most annoying problems and will agree that 60% dodge was probably not at the top of that list.
    NataNxy
  • blynknzblynknz Member Posts: 1,988
    Ipshai said:

    I take no offense and english isn't my native tongue. So please help me grasp the nature of this stacking :

    maximum dodge calculation ( assuming 5 is maximum trait level)

    now : dodge ( armor and survivor) and luck ( weapon and survivor) ( 4x15%) = 60% chance to dodge
    after nerf : dodge twice on any source and luck only once (3x15%) = 45%

    Do I still not understand how this works ?

    Yes, but I think its going to only be
    Dodge + luck = 30%.

    I have no problems with that. But there needs to be some counter balance.
    That will cause more hospital time, so maybe increase the healing times.

    Also, if the allow for at least a 75% return of XP on upgraded goods, then it will allow people to upgraded different weapons if required. Maybe do that in conjunction with an increased Xp & 5s upgrade.
    DLichMusatNataNxyRick_ZK
  • i812manyi812many Member Posts: 139
    grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit
    MizTymongo911
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    First, council upgrades aren't coming out at a rapid-fire pace. Players maxed or near-maxed may end up holding gear with disabled luck traits for a long time.

    Second, some players opt for a long-term strategy that involves upgrading gear less frequently than others. I'm one.

    Third, tons and tons of good gear has been scrapped because it didn't have luck, and good survivors have been rejected because they didn't have luck. It's hard to stomach how much good stuff I've let go because I based my decisions on the mechanics of the game as it stood.

    But it's true, eventually it will even out and we'll adapt to the new circumstances. It's just a very radical change that heavily penalises the most strategic players for a significant period of time (how long that is depends on the individual player, and on when the update actually happens).
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
    [Deleted User]Vudnik
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870
    @lmfgunnut I knew I shouldn't have numbered my comments! I almost included a disclaimer that I wasn't giving an exhaustive list, because I was sure I would forget something.

    I personally don't play challenge missions that high so this was easy for me to overlook. I go for 260 or 310 stars and I'm done.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
    "I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
    "I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
    DLich
  • NCDawgFanNCDawgFan Member Posts: 2,070
    edited August 2016
    All those level 30 repeatable challenge missions that require you to dodge like crazy are going to be near impossible to justify at 45% dodge.
    Fester17
  • MovadoMovado Member Posts: 863
    Because they want us to use tokens to further upgrade traits, to surpass the 45% dodge & bulletdodge.
  • RaikkonRaikkon Member Posts: 11
    null
    I believe this guy displays a copious degree of ignorance by horrendously missing his own point; "there are so many bigger issues to worry about." THANK YOU! PRECISELY! There are a myriad of other incredibly more emergent issues present in this game, and does NG fix (or even address\admit) them? NO! Instead they say to themselves 'screw fixing what is broken\what we broke, instead lets spend our rescources, time, and efforts figuring out what else we can FUBAR to give our players more opportunity to empty their pockets, rather than issuing any actual improvements or -GASP!- new and innovative content!.'
    The problem, sir...the problem we have with games like this one is that these companies often make more money than large production games, the trade-off is that they must constantly generate new content to stay relevant. NG made a great game that everyone here loves, a game that was fantastic for a long time...however, recently they have lost sight of their vision. They turned away from a game that was interesting, different, and casually fun, and are redirecting it SOLELY for the sake of profit and not what so ever towards legitimately improving content. If they had said; 'we are generating some exciting new content that we truly stand behind and think everyone will enjoy, however, to balance this upcoming addition we need to change the way RNG attributes behave when stacked with luck. As a result, starting with weapons or charachterd leveled 20 and up, luck on a weapon will no longer stack with that on a character.' absolutly noone would have had an issue with it. Sure, it would suck...but you would still have the option to keep using lvl 19 charachters and base lvl weapons...but eventually you would have to phase them out to remain competitive...but because currently you cannot get characters that high, it would not retroactively screw your scrapping options or play style. And as an added bonus it would be for the sake of balancing new content, not paying the mortgage of some douchebag's vacation home in salzburg who no longer cares about the game.
    [Deleted User]Vudnik
  • Rick_ZKRick_ZK Member Posts: 296
    edited August 2016
    @Shteevie Can you confirm if the luck nerf includes nerfing of dodge too? Will max dodge be 30% or 45%? (Will dodge still stack)
    IGN : Rick. Officer in the Cure Family. Number One in Sweden & currently 22 globally.
  • IpshaiIpshai Member Posts: 38
    You are right that the most respectful way to address this problem is to let it phase out. As of today no weapons will have luck. But then all new players are at a major disadvantage. The best way would be to have 2 to 3 quick council upgrades. Even then I vividly recall being unable to touch a l15 bruiser with my level 19 survivor.

    There is another *elegant * solution by adding a skill that negates dodge. I don't like it because it adds complexity instead of variety . Then the folks that feel special when reaching 400* with ultra dodge won't have their illusion shattered.

    Like in role-playing, try to please the power gamers and the roleplayers. You might enjoy finding and exploiting the most optimal build to do as many stars as you can. What I enjoyed most was feeling I might lose my beloved survivors doing deadlies and having to say goodbye to them and welcoming new ones to replace them. The removal of these 2 things alone bothers me way more than any game balancing. Even though I enjoyed it at first, I feel part of the essence of this game gone since there are no more deadlies and my survivors are immortal and can never be obsolete.

    nadecir
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 268

    I'm wondering if NG realizes that nerfing luck in the name of making traits more equal will mean the end of so many players buying weapon bundles.



    If all traits become equal why pay for a legendary pistol with three average traits when you easily can find one with average traits for free?

    Reducing the drop rate for legendary weapons solves this problem for NG. If it is very difficult to get any legendary weapon at all, many people will just buy one.

    The luck nerf as described in other posts means that all players who have luck as a survivor attribute runs the risk of drawing a weapon with a trait that may be useless for every single weapon random draw. Obviously that is not good at all.

    Allowing luck on a weapon is a strange choice. Why should a weapon attribute affect other weapon attributes, armor attributes and survivor attributes at the same time? IMO, only survivor attributes should simultaneously extend to other survivor attributes, weapons attributes, and armor attributes. Luck should be a survivor attribute only. More often than not, simple is better for players to understand, and developers to implement.

    Having luck perform differently in PvP versus other parts of the game is a complex kludge at best. This type of complexity causes player communication issues and frustration, especially for new players. It also makes the game more difficult for the developers to maintain in the long run.

    At some point, this game needs to go back toward its simple elegant roots. You can't keep adding complexity forever to the game without adding bugs, exploits, or balance problems.

    A game that is complex that even the most regular, ardent, long term players don't completely understand should be a warning sign to the developers.
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 268
    bgbelden said:

    Who dodges freaking bullets, take that out. Dodging a melee attack is very possible. Not bullets. Whoever even thought that ignorant trait up anyway? Nerf them.

    Just consider bullet dodge as added camouflage, and the concept of bullets sometimes missing their mark makes sense. The added camouflage causes the attackers to miss their targets on a more regular basis. If you want more added reality, then longer range attacks from hunters, shooters, and the assault class should be less accurate on average than short range attacks. In general, shooting at something doesn't mean you are going to hit them 100% of the time, even at the closest of ranges.

    If you have dodge in the game, then bullet dodge (camouflage, if you prefer) does mean more balance in the game.
    PigMizTy
  • @nadecir considering I have wide bore and survivors aren't 250 yards out blending into the surroundings but actually several feet in front of me, I'll disagree with your theory without hitting the disagree button.
    MizTyFester17
  • RaikkonRaikkon Member Posts: 11
    @bgbelden Dodging bullets is every bit as realistic as a .30 cal bullet having appx a 1 yard wide kill radius.
    Pigblynknzmongo911
  • blynknzblynknz Member Posts: 1,988
    with multiple kills that are not in a direct line.
    Pig
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