Super Cycle & Changes to Outposts Matchmaking - Official Discussion Thread

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  • DrBOBDrBOB Member Posts: 223
    Why is the Trade shop legendary item 12.5k yet the Legendary box is 7.5k ? So 5k extra for a name and because you can see the item if that's the reason then that's madness just another reason why this game going downhill I haven't felt this pissed off about the game since the roll back issues @Shteevie ?
    DTP Elder
    Send me a PM if interested
    acbAnnette578antInvader
  • I have been playing Outpost ever since it began. I was top leaderboard competitor (global). The screenshot below is one I took before I abandoned the competition. I no longer remember exactly when this was taken. I let my IP dropped from almost 7000 to what it is now. The reason for that is staying in the top required a lot of playing time and real money to Gold hospital especially every time cycle was about to end.

    What do I think of the changes now? it did not address the problems. It is good now that one no longer loses TG when raided. That is a good change before this one. Since nothing is lost for the raided player, in fact he/she even gains: Shield, matchmaking has become not much of a problem. Players should be able to choose how, when and who to fight with. For me the problem is healing time and all the bugs that have been the result of recent updates.

  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    Feelings are inevitable. Our reaction to them are what we can govern. I am in no way suggesting Steve should be a punching bag. However, there's a large disparity in the balance of power in this situation. I was attempting (in my roundabout way) to tell him to acknowledge and appreciate it. Cultivate a level of detachment about such things and remain positive. My role is a gamer, commenting on an Internet forum. A medium well-known for exactly this, absent iron fisted moderation. His role is different. I know he's not King of NG and is caught between stresses, perhaps things that he can do nothing about. But perspective can be armor against the slings and arrows of outrageous forums. Rather obtuse form of support, I know, but I am who I am.
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    Morpheus you spoke such true words when you said it took a "lot of playing time and real money to gold for the hospital " that I can't argue with that.

    That quote speaks volumes.


    No one wants the outposts to become a place where if you spend a bunch of money on the hospital you too can rise up the leaderboard. We already have that and the grind from the challenge stars is already burning out many players.
    Annette578
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    Shteevie said:

    @DeadShot
    -Trust me - we're here all day. We'll definitely be comparing the influence spread before and after the changes, and use the data to improve matchmaking by making it more about comparable power and less about influence.

    @Shteevie Steve, I do believe you are not completely understanding player feedback here. Many of us prefer less restrictive matchmaking to tighter matchmaking. Facing off against the same people with similar tactics and equipment gets boring very quickly.

    Let us choose who we want to face off with in a raid. Use the player spread to assign risk and reward to the raid. If a high level team faces off against a lower level one and wins, he should gain relatively little, and lower level should not lose much, if anything, at all. If the lower level team wins, he should gain a lot, and the high level team should lose a lot. An even match should provide a balanced risk/reward ratio for both players. There are existing systems that do this very well. Next Games shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel.

    Give us players more information in matchmaking, and more choice in matches please.

    Heck, if this is implemented correctly, I'd create a team of level 16's to try to beat a team of 19's, so I could earn higher rewards. It would be a fun challenge. More stuff to do = more creativity and more fun. Less stuff (i.e. restrictive, tight matchmaking = less fun).

    When you implemented the awarding of just about the same TG's for winning any raid, you enticed people into tanking their influence. Tanking meant little risk, good reward. Removing any risk of the defender losing trade goods had unintended consequences also. The more complexity you add, the more likelihood of players gaming the system, and the more likelihood of unintended consequences. And the more likely you throw off an already precarious, complex economy.

    Reliance on interpreting game play analytics to determine future game direction can lead you down the wrong path, especially when you are constraining choice. Relying on game play analytics is like running a poorly designed survey, such as:

    How do you like the outpost changes:
    1. Love them.
    2. Like them.
    3. Somewhat like them.

    Game play analytics only give you some information about the choice that you already coerced the player into making. Throw in the special buffs like the special attack/defend bonus, and the reduced hospital times, double influence rewards, etc. and your game play analytics about these outpost changes are even less useful. You are all working too hard to get the answer you want, rather than really seeing what the players want.
    GrimGaelOpieN98[Deleted User]
  • Shut

    Everyone in the top then spent gold and time but it doesn't mean we got there because of only that. You know this if you've been there, it takes more than just healthy survivors to stay on your spot. You know how the competition is and how scarce IP becomes at that level.

    I agree with you. Today if you ask me, it is not leaderboards that matter...fun, excitement and all other positive emotions are what should matter in game and, in life...come to think of it.

  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    I have no problem with that really. Leave the master level and super unobtainium plated mithiril levels to the whales. But let me have my fun kicking around in the middle somewhere for fun and midlevel rewards. Every other aspect of the game is like this anyway.
    DrBOB
  • OpieN98OpieN98 Member Posts: 50
    @nadecir Well spoken. I'm burning up my gold healing survivors during the supercycle, but if it wasn't for the extra trade goods I wouldn't be touching the outposts.

    Everyone is using the same map, everyone is using the same Bruiser in the same exact spot, and everyone has the same Neo style shooters that your just plain lucky to hit(seriously I had a guy dodge 7 out of 9 point blank shots in my last raid).

    I truly appreciate the time you've put in working the game for the majority to enjoy(you can't please them all) and in truth I've played the game more since the last update than I have since I downloaded it. BUT the outpost have a longggg way to go, before they will be something I concentrate on after this supercycle.
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    I must disagree in part with your view, @zbot, and again perspective. I would never come here to talk to NG staff alone. I did find, after I came, a forum where that was an option. A welcome and unexpected option absent in many such forums. Great point one.
    And a well moderated forum. By well moderated, I mean dissent is not stifled, and there's not an overly puritanical view of jokes, even a few off topic jokes, within reason. Great point number two.
    So your view is 100% valid from your perspective. Mine is 100% different. I'm here for other players. If NG benefits from this--awesome, and they deserve to for setting up a system and maintaining those two great points above. Win-win!
    This game, in and of itself, is a lonely game. Guild chat, which came later, is the only direct player interaction. Even outposts are PV?AI and not direct interaction. So this is an essential part, for me.
    IRONDee[Deleted User]
  • AmigaAmiga Member Posts: 3,770
    edited September 2016
    @Shteevie
    You know exactly how to show us light in the tunnel ;) I can't wait for update 2.2
    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/d6070rs.jpg"alt="" />
    GrimGael
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    And now I'm off again. I've been here too long and said too much already. Time to lurk and see how it goes from here.
    But before I go, and so @Shteevie knows how to make this counterintuitive player perform more in line with expectations:
    You're trying to appeal to the wrong part of my dark nature. I have no desire to stand on the head of another player that has done nothing to me, just to do so. Even for treats. If you want to see me bathe in blood, give me revenge on the players that have come to my outpost and slaughtered the old and infirm survivors there for mere influence. Give them a 24, 48, or even 72 hour shield against me after I attack them. Because I will. I know this has been discussed and there are no plans on the docket. But they are there on my log. That is the key to my darkness, how to get me to play as you wish.
    MadPuppyDeadBeat[Deleted User]
  • tallinietallinie Member Posts: 393
    edited September 2016
    Just for fun I was trying to raid a few outposts with team of max lvl 13 survivors, with lvl 1 gear. Matchmaking put my team against lvl 19 walkers and survivors. Two out of three raids I won. Cheers.
  • Passive_MavPassive_Mav Member Posts: 40
    edited September 2016
    I guess I benefited from this update. I don't raid often and maybe even less now than before.

    In the last 24 Hours
    Raid Won 17s v 16s Gained 24inf 456tg
    Defense Won 17s v 17s Gained 48inf
    Defense Won 13s v 17s Gained 60inf
    Defense Won 17s v 17s Gained 48inf
    Defense Won 16s v 17s Gained 48inf
    Defense Won 13s v 17s Gained 56inf
    Defense Lost (flag only) 17s v 17s Lost 0
    Defense Won 15s v 17s Gained 44inf
    Defense Lost (stash,flag) 15s v 17s Lost 0
    Defense Lost (stash,flag) 14s v 17s Lost 0

    Current inf: 2754

    So I've gained far more influence than I would have by only casually attacking but I wonder how long before all those defense wins will become ones where people abandon the raid.

    edit: ment to say "lost 0"
    tallinie
  • RicktatorshipRicktatorship Member Posts: 17
    To the devs: Im not one to exploit things in games. But at this point Im purposefully losing influence during an event that doubles it......I have played this game for a good amount of time and will continue to play it. Not sure how you guys are solving the outpost issue but Im glad to hear matchmaking will no longer be based solely on influence. it should at the very least involve survivors levels placed on defence, walker strength, and then influence. Im sorry but facing walkers/survivors that are 5 levels higher than me isnt a "challenge" its an exercise in futility. Survivor levels on defence should be the FIRST determining factor in matchmaking, then walker strength, then influence. You could base it off of a players current council level, or max character level to avoid exploits. I have played other games with similar pvp that do this well. Regardless of your "rank" in pvp you will always be matched with someone close to your level, even at the top. So for lower level players you can climb to the top ranks and dont hit a "level wall" where you have to stop and wait for your buildings and survivors to catch up. As long as building requirements are balanced then there will be little room for exploits.
    Stuff....and thangs.
    MadPuppy
  • PowerUKPowerUK Member Posts: 85
    I built an outpost for the build points but don't want to take part in raiding. Can you add a way for me to leave my outpost unmanned? Forcing me to have 3 survivors in there at all times effectively reduces the roster of survivors I have available for the parts of the game I want to play. @Shteevie
  • RuthlessRuthless Member Posts: 42
    @DLich

    That is the best tactic right there especially since gas will be 1 for outpost this cycle!!!!!
    DLich
  • tallinietallinie Member Posts: 393
    @Ricktatorship Would you believe if I add that those 19 lvl walkers and survivors couldnt even scratch my team.

    I wasnt saying I killed all those walkers and survivors. I just run by walkers to get flag and claimed a win of a superior opponent that the current matchmaking system threw against me. :smiley: I did get to gate as well but rural-3 is not good for getting tg with this crew without injuries. Now back to tanking inf.





  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,354
    edited September 2016
    @PowerUK , you should have received 3 survivors and 3 slots free of charge when you built your outpost.
    DeadBeat
  • PowerUKPowerUK Member Posts: 85
    zbot said:

    @PowerUK , you should have received 3 survivors and 3 slots free of charge when you built your outpost.

    My bad @zbot forgot about that. Can I dismantle my outpost and give back the 3 survivors and 3 slots instead?
    MizTyDeadBeat
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Anyone at influence between 4000-5000 mind sharing the influence they are seeing in raids?

    I played nonstop almost since update on outposts getting TG crate and running with @Poppy strategy. In the 2K-3K influence bracket of the trade goods offerred was less than 400 it was low level walkers. If it was 500 or higher they had Lvl 19 walkers.

    Walker strength isn't shown but number if TG's offerred is still in relation to the walkers present in the unseen outpost.

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  • juststaceyjuststacey Member Posts: 3
    "We drastically underestimated the number of players that were looking to play counterintuitively, and the impact that this would have on the experiences of others."

    Wow! Way to insult your fan base! That's an interesting business model.
    Passive_MavDeadBeatmongo911
  • GindyGindy Member Posts: 703
    (It appears Most/all of the feedback in this thread is coming from Outpost players -- figured I'd add the 180° perspective written from my side of the fence)

    There are two distinct verticals of people in NML: those that Challenge and those that Outpost. Very few people do both. Here's what each of us do to survive:

    Challengers:
    *Run six repeat missions, repeatedly
    *Earn TG through individual effort
    *Earn phones through team effort
    *Earn XP based on time, effort, and skill
    *Crates with tiered rewards
    *Lotsa gas required, must spend $1.99 weekly to stay competitive
    *Reward "hard cap" per run based on stage level completed
    *Hospital time only at end game (or occasional oops moment)
    *Team collaboration allows strategy and discussion as all play the same map

    Outposts:
    *Run Farm 3, repeatedly
    *Earn TG through individual effort
    *Earn phones through spending earned TG
    *Earn XP based on RNG matching
    *No reward crates
    *Always costs 2 gas
    *Reward "hard cap" enforced regardless of open opponent's supply
    *Hospital time even when facing survivors below level
    *You have seven minutes. Good luck!

    So where am I going with this? I'll be honest, I'm a Challenger. I get what I want and desperately need as an always developing player that Outposts don't provide: TG, Soup, XP, phones, three crates per level w/ weapons, armor, gold, etc. on every turn (until I max stage if not a repeatable) while each time knowing what I'm getting into.

    I see ZERO reason to Outpost because:
    *There's no soup, gold, phones, weapons, or armor to earn, period.
    *I don't lose XP, Soup, or Crates when others raid me
    *I spend crates on shop goods to increase my camp/survivors to get better rewards, there's none left to use on walkers in a pit
    *I can play Monday - Thursday with little to no hospital time
    *I can help new players understand strategy and get excited for success, fast!
    *I'm guaranteed hospital time, can't/won't risk this during challenge cycle
    *The payout per completion is roughly the "same" regardless of tier

    So here I sit in Silver Tier. Waiting with my three shielded, dodgiest, luckiest, ranged Epic survivors in whatever map NG chose for me. Maybe I'll drop my two last gas on the chance my scout can grab your flag and crate before I go to bed. I can't burn it on a challenge, but it's wasted if I leave it on the table.

    I'm your biggest problem.

    I'll collect my 2000TG bi-weekly and go back to strategizing with my guildmates about how we're going to hit L30 on this week's repeatable.

    Maybe we'll cross paths someday, Outposters... until then, good luck!
    PowerUKLightfeetMadPuppy[Deleted User]Musat
  • AmigaAmiga Member Posts: 3,770
    edited September 2016
    @Teeceezy @Shteevie
    Guys could you add more turns after opening gate? For example 2 more. With all this dodging stuff it's more than welcome. Please consider my suggestion.
    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/d6070rs.jpg"alt="" />
  • Neil_JNeil_J Member Posts: 1,873
    edited September 2016

    "We drastically underestimated the number of players that were looking to play counterintuitively, and the impact that this would have on the experiences of others."



    Wow! Way to insult your fan base! That's an interesting business model.





    Neither his first, nor his last attempt at alienating many of us...........
    “You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only option.” (Bob Marley)
    Fragzie[Deleted User]mongo911
  • DrBOBDrBOB Member Posts: 223
    DrBOB said:
    Why is the Trade shop legendary item 12.5k yet the Legendary box is 7.5k ? So 5k extra for a name and because you can see the item if that's the reason then that's madness just another reason why this game going downhill I haven't felt this pissed off about the game since the roll back issues @Shteevie ?
    @DrBOB , you know the equipment type (weapon or armor) and also the class. If you want to gamble with leg boxes, it doesn't stop you. Just pass on purchasing this and wait for the leg box. For me personally, I don't like leaving things to luck. It's hard getting over previous perception or what someone on the forum posts of finding a Unicorn in a gold chest. But for every Unicorn, there's a million Donkeys. Not every offering appeals to everyone but just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's bad.

    Separate topic:

    @zbot the point I'm makeing is not about the what class it is or if it's armor or a weapon it's the 5k and it still could turn out as you say a big fat donkey with crap traits and for the 5k difference for me it's bad yes very bad
    DTP Elder
    Send me a PM if interested
    Invadermongo911
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