Bruisers still suck

Scouts recently got a reasonable boost with the changes to swift strike. Extended range makes them likewise useful situationally.

-Hunters still reign supreme
-Warriors are the ultimate melee
-Assault has good aoe spread and stun charge
-Shooters remain the most potent offensive/defensive with range plus big single target dmg and a charge for two turns.

Why does one class remain obsolete?

I'd recommend for bruisers:

-dmg should be identical to warriors. Warrior arc and an extra turn charge would still make them much more offensive
-stun on attack and charge should be special in that it will always stun regardless of level or bodyshot
-a further minor hit point boost

Some tweaks would make them viable. As of now they remain obsolete. Single target damage is terrible. Their stun is irrelevant for meaningful content. For a tank class, they're not that much more resilient.

I want a reason to want to bring them along for anything.
Survivor420crambert_nec08Gerrard_Fan08CreatureoftheNightPigRedEye52MizTy

Comments

  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,564
    I agree with some of your proposals but not others.

    Damage for a bruiser should NOT be equal to a warrior. Especially when bruisers have wide arc weapons like Morgan's Staff and a 360 degree charge ability. Giving them comparable damage AND the ability to stun AND much higher HP than the Warrior? Screams imbalance.

    Bruisers are meant to stun and take hits, and if they are boosted, it's those abilities that should be boosted. I do agree with you that a one turn stun should work no matter what (except on Stun Resistant Outpost defenders and fatties). I wouldn't be too upset if the bonus stun on a weapon only works if it's not a body shot. HP boost would also be nice, but not necessary.
    Survivor420HershelsheadPigMizTy
  • GreySeerGreySeer Member Posts: 308
    Eva strongly disagrees, but then again, she's carrying around this fancy staff.

    Even though I'd hate to see Morgan's Staff in the TG store, I think other weapons with similar range can be available there. I bring Eva at least half the time I go on runs, especially with the increase in maps with multiple spawnpoints.

    I think Bruisers are as useless or useful as you want them to be.
    GrimGaelHershelsheadMizTy
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,564
    Okay, thanks for disagreeing with everyone @Survivor420. Care to explain why?
    Survivor420
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    The bruiser class is disapointing to me. I like "tank" characters. Low damage is cool cause main (in my opinion) should be to stun and take damage for weaker survivors. I would like to see one round stun automatic with bruiser regardless of walker level. Reduce charge points necesary by one. 2 to charge instead of 3. More health to take more damage. Maybe stun resist by default.
    MizTy
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    @JayZ. I didnt disagree with everyone. I noticed after you said that i disagreed with you. My fat fingers were not made to type. I changed it to agree. I love to debate by the way. If you ever want to talk about some of my opinions. But dont say thanks for something you clearly didnt like. Please. Thanks for lettin me know i really didnt mean to disagree with you.
    JayZMizTy
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    Also i say stop the body shots for hand fighters. Walkers move too slow to miss the head. From a distance with a rifle ok. But right next to one with a knife. Youre not gonna miss the head and hit em in the chest
    08Gerrard_Fan08CreatureoftheNightHopelessMizTyDeanTWD
  • GreySeerGreySeer Member Posts: 308
    @Survivor420

    Umm Bruisers already have two charge points instead of three?
    Survivor420MizTy
  • RoonisRoonis Member Posts: 47
    the biggest thing to me is bruisers stall out play, stunning is great, but it can take awhile to kill something. if the idea is to tank hits, and stun. Maybe their charge should also act as a sort of taunt ability for anything currently hostile towards your team. Good bruiser play could allow you to smash, retaliate kill, kill and smash again when everything gets to you, actively locking things down while letting your damage characters carve everything apart.
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,564
    @Survivor420 Thanks for clarifying! I also like a healthy, constructive debate, which is why I called you out (although I probably could have done it without the snark).
    Survivor420
  • MovadoMovado Member Posts: 863
    I'd also like to see some improvements to Bruisers, although there are various ways this could be implemented. Previously, Bruisers at least had a small niche in Outposts, but with prevalence of stun-resist gear nowadays, bruisers just aren't as effective.

    If the intent is to have them be the "tank" class of this game, their HP and damage-reduction should inherently be improved, but not their damage output. This would mirror the concept of a true Tank just like in MMO/RPG games.

    Currently I find Assaults to be better overall tanks. (Since my Assault has over 3k Health, why would I want to use Bruisers?)
    Survivor420HopelessMizTy
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    The idea that bruisers are tanks is just not there. They might be able to take more damage, but that doesn't usually translate into taking more hits on missions in any meaningful way before they go down or are on the injured reserve list.
    If they were the only class able to resist stun, they'd be highly sought after. But they are not. That is available to scouts, the most pencil neck geek class, so that cat's out of the bag.
    If they were the only class able to stun, then they'd be highly sought after. But they are not, and even that ability has been nerfed repeatedly. Somewhat possible to make up for that by paying for multiple Morgan's staves, but even then...if there's a crowd of 8 things I want to stun, chances are I don't want to be standing in the middle of it when I do. So assault it is.
    I still maintain a stable of bruisers and use them. One is training as I write this. I do this out of stubbornness rather than utility. I have used them here or there, but not because they were irreplaceable.
    I guess this isn't very constructive other than to say they are usable and commiserate with those that don't. I don't have any suggestions to improve them, I hesitate to call for any changes because they lose out with every change. Even when melee is nerfed in general, they get hurt, and any specific change to them is never favorable.
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    @GreySeer ok. Now my face is red. Thanks for clearing at up. I should play bruiser more often to familiarize.
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    @JayZ not your fault. My fault really. Hard for me sometimes to comunicate. Especially through typing. If you dont say enough your message is unclear. Say too much it gets clogged and people dont wanna read. Its cool.
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    @Movado i use assault regularly for what you mention. I dont use bruiser except for 3 bruiser quest. I really want to though. There are just better options.
  • DarkZeroDarkZero Member Posts: 339
    There's a use only Bruisers Challenge? I've seen only scouts, only melee and only range but no only Bruisers.
    Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me DZ.
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    If you don't have 3 bruisers you don't get it. I do and I have not seen it in a while.
  • DarkZeroDarkZero Member Posts: 339
    Oh good. I haven't had more than 1 since I started playing and I'm not even bothering to level him up anymore. He's still at level 6 :D
    Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me DZ.
    08Gerrard_Fan08KARAZIPKALI
  • TransmuteJunTransmuteJun Member Posts: 2,122
    Just so you guys know, it used to be that bruisers would stun anything they hit, no matter the level. People were stunning walkers more than 10 levels above them. NG removed this aspect of bruisers (I'm sure you'll find the threads decrying it if you look) in anticipation of Outposts. NG felt that in an Outpost situation, having a bruiser automatically being able to stun everyone and everything was far too powerful.

    I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, only that NG is unlikely to go back to those pioneering 'wild west' days...
    08Gerrard_Fan08TheLostOnesKARAZIPKALI
  • GrimGaelGrimGael Member Posts: 1,410
    I wasn't crazy about that change, but they have since degraded them. That's the rub.
    08Gerrard_Fan08
  • The things I'd like to see to improve Bruisers:
    - More health: As a tank class, bruisers take only a few hits to go down. He should have much more health . Right now, he is not enough resilient to be called a tank
    - reduce hospital time: As a tank class, you'll actively use the bruiser to take hits for your damage dealers. What would that do any good if after every mission he goes to the hospital for an hour?
    - guaranteed stun on normal and armored walkers, regardless of body shots: Except for the tank walker and survivors with appropriate traits, bruisers should stun normal walkers every single time.
    - reduced kill needed to activate charge ability: Normally it takes him at least 2 turns to kill something, so that means twice as much time to activate an ability.

    Bonus: I don't like the bruiser name very much. Maybe change it to something else. Hell, tank would be a better name for them
    MizTy
  • daegundaegun Member Posts: 135
    @GreySeer

    I have 3 legendary level 20 bruisers - 2 with Morgan staves. They just don't do enough damage to make them worthwhile and their stun doesn't work on fatty walkers.

    They'd be useful if they could stun all targets regardless of level/bodyshot/walkertype and do a smidge more single target damage.
    R2runfast
  • GreySeerGreySeer Member Posts: 308
    @daegun

    Don't get me wrong; bruisers could use some work ;)

    Maybe it's our level difference that makes the bruiser more useful to me? My legendary level 15 bruiser usually starts bodyshotting when walkers are 20+, which makes her very useful to me on hard missions.

    I agree about the fatties, they should be able to stun those as well. And their weapons should have more base damage than they do now.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,051
    There is one notable viable strategy for bruisers to me.
    When a bruiser stuns a walker, the next hit on that stunned walker will be a critical hit.
    This can be useful for (armored) walkers +1,2 or 3 lvl above your survivor level. (especially when I don't want to increase threat with ranged survivors)
    Retaliate can give an extra stun to be critical hit in my next turn.

    In outpost defense, meh. I've got stun resistance on my survivors. So I like it when the defender has 1 or more bruisers (low damage to my survivors).
    In outpost offence, meh. I like Assaults stun attack better.

  • AnielAniel Member Posts: 96
    Morgan staff was available in TG store? When? How much?
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,051
    Aniel said:

    Morgan staff was available in TG store? When? How much?

    I don't think it has been.
    Lucille has been available for TG at a certain point.
    Jaden
  • DIblisDIblis Member Posts: 713
    There was the episode reward with wide area, maybe they could put that in tg store.
    Leader - The 75th Rangers

    Next Games - Quality Freemium Butchers - Purveyors of Fine Fresh Nerf - We Take the Luck Away From Choice Cuts

    Next Games - Great Leaders in Redefining Value in a Virtual World
    Jadenjimmorrison369
Sign In or Register to comment.