Neegan isn't very bright

When you torture people to the extent that he has, and you keep them alive, you're just asking for them to kill you.

I don't buy the reasons, excuses, or the storyline here. So he wants them to "work" for him. He'll show up occasionally, steal all of their stuff and harass them and remind them of what he did to them? It's just not logical to continually piss people off to that extent and walk around carefree. He's going to get himself bashed in the head eventually. Even if Rick himself has to do it and then die himself, so be it.

Obviously this is a TV show and this storyline brings drama, but it's a bit over-the-top.


  • It's true, the writers didn't do a great job in rationalize Negan's actions on the show. However in the comic, he's a real force to be reckon with. He has proven to be a master tactician, intimidator and manipulator. He strikes in enemies 's fear, use their emotions to tear them apart. The show writers just didn't do a good enough job into bringing comic Negan on the screen.
  • HaiyanHaiyan Member Posts: 156
    Yep. Ramsay's (GOT) ways make more sense to me.
  • Yeah Ramsey was an awesome villain. His death devastated me more than Jon Snow's.
  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50
    I wonder if Rick would have taken that bat to him, if Negan's men would have come to his aid or not. Like that one guy said, he's just one man. If he's dead, they all could live in peace.

    I imagine we'll find out soon enough.
  • MadPuppyMadPuppy Member Posts: 2,831

    Your thread is 100% good, let me be clear on that.

    I moved it to TV show discussion though, because that is what it really is. The NML General is meant for the game discussion.

    Because it talks specifically about the TV show, it contains spoilers for those that have not gotten this far in the series. The TV show section is okay for that too.

    So carry on!
  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50

    It's alright. It was my fault for not posting in the correct section. Thanks. I understand some people take thread moving personal sometimes, but what's right is right.
  • AnachrondaAnachronda Member Posts: 7
    The one thing about the torture aspect of this is that he's not just torturing people. He's using brainwashing techniques. A lot of things he is doing, doctrines, and effects kind of remind me of cult leaders like Cinque (famous for brainwashing Patty Hearst), Charles Manson, and David Koresh to name a few. In fact, one of the things that immediately clicked for me was the memory of Manson Family members saying things like "we are all Charlie."

    Those people tortured the hell out of their future followers and still inspired loyalty. Stalin was able to get people to come back from the gulag and do things for him as well, even working with the very people who turned them in and got them sent there. These are all real life examples.

    It's not all torture with him, either. If you're "good," Negan can treat you very well and even seem reasonable. It seems he is able to not only break people but make them believe anything bad he does to them is their own fault, which is another tactic abusive characters tend to use. He also engenders a feeling of futility to oppose him, which is part of that "test" where Daryl's door was left open. That's actually something a lot of abusive people have done to their victims, and it apparently works. Eventually they quit trying to escape, even when taken outside or left alone. They actually begin to fear any chance of freedom more than the cage because they have been caught out so many times.

    There's a doctrinal aspect as well. Negan teaches his followers that they are bringing order to the world, and it is desperate times which require these tactics. It would definitely be hard to control a group of any reasonable size in the world of TWD, because by this point anyone who is alive is probably pretty dangerous and fiercely individualistic. Most of the people we've encountered this far have at the very least been not very nice, and definitely have been mostly strong fighters unless they are walled in like the original Alexandrians and some of the Hilltop folks.

    Anyone who takes out Negan would probably have to either not care anymore what happens (like Carl) or feel able to take his place (like Rick). I think part of Negan's philosophy may involve the latter. If someone is strong enough to kill him, he feels they deserve to take his place, but if they are not they deserve to be below him and may as well serve or die. You're right that most of the time a major leader employing torture and violence inspires revolt, but people have to feel able to succeed and will generally fear the consequences. Negan tries to break down their spirit first, then build them into his soldiers. I think that is part of what he meant by pointing out to Rick the difference between himself when he first arrived at Alexandria ("I would not want to mess with that guy") and now ("but you aren't that guy anymore, are you?"). Daryl is in the cell because he will require special attention but Negan sees potential in him.

    In the end, obviously Negan is going down. It only remains to be seen who will do it and how they will keep those Saviors from killing them and/or dispersing into the wild on a rampage. Negan's way is obviously wrong, but he definitely has brains and is using them. I haven't read the comics yet, but I would not be surprised if he has studied psychology and the history of cults of personality to come up with the regime he uses.
  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50

    Rick hasn't changed, though. None of "our" crew has. Anything Rick has done to fall-in-line isn't real. He's just waiting for his opportunity and doing what he can to play nice for now so that no one else dies.

    Daryl will die before kneeling. If he did kneel, it'd be fake just to buy some time just as what Rick is doing.

    You gotta know when your "captives" are just putting on a show to get along.

    Anyway, it's not working. It's not having the affect Negan wants. They grow angrier and angrier each day, but he's too busy being a donkeys rear end to notice.

    I guess what this amounts to is just failed writing, failed character design or bad direction.
  • AnachrondaAnachronda Member Posts: 7
    I agree with you about Rick and Daryl's character. For now it looks to me like Negan is relying on their loyalty to their friends and desire to protect them to keep them in line. Obviously he is keeping Daryl on a tight leash, and with Rick he has forcibly disarmed them and removed their medicine. That's probably because he expects them to try something.

    Rick and crew haven't been given the full brainwashing treatment, either. Daryl is going through some of that. Daryl has survived a lot of abuse in his life - he's tough. I do remember his time with the Claimers, but that made him ashamed and in the end he'd obviously choose Rick over anyone.

    I'm not sure how aware Negan is of his impending betrayal. If he has a brain in his head, he will have planned for it in advance, as seems to have been the case with Hilltop. He's definitely giving Hilltop rope to hang themselves with. We'll just have to see, but I suspect Negan has more tricks up his sleeve for the coming episodes.
  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50
    One of the main issues with Negan's approach is that Rick and gang are free. You can't allow people to be free 99% of the time and then expect them to not have ideas about killing you during the 1% of the time you're there.

    Anyway, I hope we get Rick's crew in the episode tonight, not the other storylines.
  • MorganMorgan Member Posts: 191
    Well you see Negan didnt completely cut them loose. He broke Rick and kept Daryl to remind him of what hes capable of doing.
    He couldnt imprison everyone so what he did is pretty smart.

    Im curious to see how Rick's group recovers this loss.
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  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50
    Unless i missed something, Negan is all alone in Alexandria and is messing with Rick's kids? This can't end well.
  • SolomonSolomon Member Posts: 6
    Negan's smile shines bright like the Sun. :D
  • Tommy78Tommy78 Member Posts: 50
    Sometimes his phony laugh makes me ill.
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